|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25025238 - 02/27/18 12:10 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
musiclover420 said: What does everyone think about this as well: . . .

Your first quote is about a US citizen whose family emigrated to the U.S. in the late '70s from the U.S.S.R. Did you know former Russian US citizens are allowed to donate to the GOP? Why is this news?
Your second quote is about Manfort's business consulting work for an aluminum company to help it win business in the west. What does that have to do with Putin, other than a Russian bank owning 4% of the company? Man you are DESPARATE for ANYTHING.
You are conveniently cherry picking that info...
Quote:
Oleg Deripaska is said to be one of Russian President Vladimir Putin's favorite oligarchs, and he is founder and majority shareholder of Russia's Rusal, the second-largest aluminum company in the world. Blavatnik holds a stake in Rusal with a business partner.
Further, nearly 4 percent of Deripaska's stake in Rusal is owned by Putin's state-controlled bank, VTB, which is currently under U.S. sanctions. VTB was exposed in the Panama Papers in 2016 for facilitating the flow of billions of dollars to offshore companies linked to Putin.
Rich guy close to putin with a solid chunk of money being frozen by US Sanctions which Trump conveniently decided aren't necessary, do the math...

Anyways I just found that info interesting, I wasn't saying it verifies anything one way or the other.
The way you and many others just try to shrug off all this info is alarming though to say the least.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25025243 - 02/27/18 12:13 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: No Russian collusion there either. In case you didn't know, Ukraine is NOT Russia.
How about your third best example?
You realize Russia and the Ukraine have a long history right? Way to strawman 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–Ukraine_relations#2010s
Yes. In fact I know that Ukraine used to be a part of the Soviet Union. But they're not anymore. In fact, they're enemies now as your next quote confirms. No evidence of Russian collusion, and no 'strawman'.
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
On 18 January 2018 the Ukrainian parliament passed a law defining areas seized by the Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic as "temporarily occupied by Russia."[22] The law also called Russia an "aggressor" state.[22]
The money laundering very likely is tied to Russia as well, and like I've been saying there's a lot of classified info we've yet to see. So who knows what Gates and others have told Mueller in their plea deals.
Only time will tell, the denial is getting pretty ridiculous though.
Actually the "Guilty until proven not guilty" is getting pretty ridiculous. Burden of proof ALWAYS lies with the person making the accusation, but democrats have lost their collective minds.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25025250 - 02/27/18 12:16 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Actually the "Guilty until proven not guilty" is getting pretty ridiculous. Burden of proof ALWAYS lies with the person making the accusation, but democrats have lost their collective minds.
Well a few of Trump's administration have already pleaded guilty to money laundering and other related charges so I think it's only a matter of time.
Anyways I am all for waiting the investigation out, even if it takes another year. Meanwhile the GOP is literally still chanting "lock her up" about hillary over a year later
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25025258 - 02/27/18 12:21 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
musiclover420 said: You are conveniently cherry picking that info...
Quote:
Oleg Deripaska is said to be one of Russian President Vladimir Putin's favorite oligarchs, and he is founder and majority shareholder of Russia's Rusal, the second-largest aluminum company in the world. Blavatnik holds a stake in Rusal with a business partner.
I know that, and he's the guy Manafort's company did business consulting work for.
Quote:
musiclover420 said: Further, nearly 4 percent of Deripaska's stake in Rusal is owned by Putin's state-controlled bank, VTB, which is currently under U.S. sanctions. VTB was exposed in the Panama Papers in 2016 for facilitating the flow of billions of dollars to offshore companies linked to Putin.
Rich guy close to putin with a solid chunk of money being frozen by US Sanctions which Trump conveniently decided aren't necessary, do the math...

Ok, let's do the math. US consulting firm is hired to help an aluminum company do business in the West. Aluminum company is 4% owned by a Russian bank. Aluminum company (and in turn the Russian bank) made a little extra money from the consulting work they bought. Math says...
Good business decision for the aluminum company and anyone who invested in them!!!
Quote:
musiclover420 said: Anyways I just found that info interesting, I wasn't saying it verifies anything one way or the other.
Ok, at least we agree.
Quote:
musiclover420 said: The way you and many others just try to shrug off all this info is alarming though to say the least.
If it turns out to be something other than a nothingburger, I won't shrug it off anymore. But right now, it's a NOTHINGBURGER.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420] 1
#25025267 - 02/27/18 12:27 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Actually the "Guilty until proven not guilty" is getting pretty ridiculous. Burden of proof ALWAYS lies with the person making the accusation, but democrats have lost their collective minds.
Well a few of Trump's administration have already pleaded guilty to money laundering and other related charges so I think it's only a matter of time.
Anyways I am all for waiting the investigation out, even if it takes another year. Meanwhile the GOP is literally still chanting "lock her up" about hillary over a year later 
I've said a LONG time ago that I expect people in Trump's campaign to be guilty of something. But probably not Russia collusion (that link is to an almost one year old post).
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#25027090 - 02/27/18 07:07 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
More interesting info coming out today:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/roger-stones-secret-messages-with-wikileaks/554432/
Quote:
On March 17, 2017, WikiLeaks tweeted that it had never communicated with Roger Stone, a longtime confidante and informal adviser to President Donald Trump. In his interview with the House Intelligence Committee last September, Stone, who testified under oath, told lawmakers that he had communicated with WikiLeaks via an “intermediary,” whom he identified only as a “journalist.” He declined to reveal that person’s identity to the committee, he told reporters later.
Private Twitter messages obtained by The Atlantic show that Stone and WikiLeaks, a radical-transparency group, communicated directly on October 13, 2016—and that WikiLeaks sought to keep its channel to Stone open after Trump won the election.
Guess who just lied under oath blatantly 
This further raises questions around Wikilinks releasing the DNC hacking info mid election but not the RNC hack info until after the election, I've seen people deny any connection but this seems pretty damning...

Then there's this juicy bit about Kushner:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-kushner-foreign-contacts-20180227-story,amp.html
Quote:
Officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways they can manipulate Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser, by taking advantage of his complex business arrangements, financial difficulties and lack of foreign policy experience, according to current and former U.S. officials familiar with intelligence reports on the matter.
Among those nations discussing ways to influence Kushner to their advantage were the United Arab Emirates, China, Israel and Mexico, the current and former officials said.
This is the same Kushner who has had temporary clearance for classified info for over a year despite not being able to pass his background inspection.
He just finally lost his tempory clearance today but over the past year has apparently requested more classified info then any other non NSC(National Security Council) white house official...
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/report-kushner-requests-more-intel-than-any-non-nsc-staff.html
This nothing burger seems to be getting stacked higher and higher
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25027148 - 02/27/18 07:27 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Kushner and a bunch of WH staff also lost their security clearances today and Meuller also dropped the charges against Gates in a new plea deal while Trump tweeted "WITCH HUNT!" like an 8 year old girl.
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,045
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 5 hours, 8 minutes
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25027379 - 02/27/18 08:54 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: No Russian collusion there either. In case you didn't know, Ukraine is NOT Russia.
How about your third best example?
You realize Russia and the Ukraine have a long history right? Way to strawman 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–Ukraine_relations#2010s
Yes. In fact I know that Ukraine used to be a part of the Soviet Union. But they're not anymore. In fact, they're enemies now as your next quote confirms. No evidence of Russian collusion, and no 'strawman'.
.
Come on, don't pretend that you don't understand that Manafort worked for the pro Russian president of the Ukraine.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods]
#25027526 - 02/27/18 10:15 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
krypto2000 said: Kushner and a bunch of WH staff also lost their security clearances today and Meuller also dropped the charges against Gates in a new plea deal while Trump tweeted "WITCH HUNT!" like an 8 year old girl.
Hey now, plenty of 8 year olds have more balls then Trump, even the girls 
I am starting to think some of these moves like arming teachers and Pence saying "abortions will be done away with in our lifetime" are just distractions...
I mean it was pretty obvious, but it seems like the further this investigation goes the more the GOP starts thrashing in the water trying to make waves and divert attention 
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: No Russian collusion there either. In case you didn't know, Ukraine is NOT Russia.
How about your third best example?
You realize Russia and the Ukraine have a long history right? Way to strawman 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–Ukraine_relations#2010s
Yes. In fact I know that Ukraine used to be a part of the Soviet Union. But they're not anymore. In fact, they're enemies now as your next quote confirms. No evidence of Russian collusion, and no 'strawman'.
.
Come on, don't pretend that you don't understand that Manafort worked for the pro Russian president of the Ukraine.
I think the people defending the GOP still really are just not paying attention, or trying to bury their heads in the sand and scream "lalalala I can't hear you!"
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420] 1
#25027542 - 02/27/18 10:24 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Oh look, even more fun news:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/27/us/politics/hope-hicks-house-intelligence-committee-testimony.html?referer=https://t.co/3RxJ9VFQ4G?amp=1#click=https://t.co/3RxJ9VFQ4G
Quote:
WASHINGTON — Hope Hicks, the White House communications director, told House investigators on Tuesday that her work for President Trump, who has a reputation for exaggerations and outright falsehoods, had occasionally required her to tell white lies.
But after extended consultation with her lawyers, she insisted that she had not lied about matters material to the investigations into Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election and possible links to Trump associates, according to three people familiar with her testimony.

I think someone's going to get interviewed under oath soon She will either lie and incriminate herself, or spill the beans on someone higher up.
Her lawyers must have given her a stern talking to admitting to lies, even "white lies", seems like a really stupid move. But hey, she works for Trump afterall... He does hire only the "best" people.
Then there's this as well:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/trump-russia-investigation/index.html
Quote:
nvestigators for special counsel Robert Mueller have recently been asking witnesses about Donald Trump's business activities in Russia prior to the 2016 presidential campaign as he considered a run for president, according to three people familiar with the matter.
Questions to some witnesses during wide-ranging interviews included the timing of Trump's decision to seek the presidency, potentially compromising information the Russians may have had about him, and why efforts to brand a Trump Tower in Moscow fell through, two sources said. The lines of inquiry indicate Mueller's team is reaching beyond the campaign to explore how the Russians might have sought to influence Trump at a time when he was discussing deals in Moscow and contemplating a presidential run.
Quote:
Several lines of questioning to witnesses have centered on the 2013 Miss Universe pageant, which was held in Moscow, and unsuccessful discussions to brand a Trump Tower Moscow, two sources said. For the pageant, Trump partnered with Aras Agalarov, and his son, Emin Agalarov, billionaire real estate developers in Russia. In congressional testimony last year, Donald Trump Jr. said that "preliminary discussions" to build a tower in Moscow began between the Trump Organization and the Agalarovs after the Miss Universe pageant. Trump tweeted with excitement about the potential project, saying "Trump Tower-Moscow is next." But the plans fell through. Rob Goldstone, a publicist for pop star Emin Agalarov, told Yahoo News last year that the Trump Tower deal was scrapped because "the economy tanked in Russia" from harsh sanctions imposed by Western countries.
Notice that last bit.
Quote:
One of the sources said, based on the questions, that Mueller's team was focused on the financing of the Miss Universe Pageant, such as who paid for what and what money was paid to whom. The Trump Organization has never disclosed exactly how much it was paid to hold the beauty pageant in Russia. But Trump's lawyers said in a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee that the Trump Organization made $12.2 million from foreign sources that year, and a "substantial portion" came from the Moscow event. A second area of focus was what happened during the event. The source said questions also focused on meetings Trump had with Russian business people or government officials, leading the source to believe the investigators were probing the possibility of "kompromat," or compromising material, on Trump.
About two years after the pageant, Trump Organization attorney Michael Cohen began negotiations with another Russian company for a Trump Tower in Moscow. Trump even signed a non-binding letter of intent in October 2015. But Cohen says he cut off negotiations in January 2016. One of the sources said Mueller's team has also asked about this project, in addition to the potential Agalarov deal. Trump did not mention during the presidential campaign that his company explored these two business deals in Russia. Instead, he insisted that he had "nothing to do with Russia." Even when talking about his past dealings with Russians -- like the Miss Universe pageant -- Trump never referred to the prospective deal that fell through a few weeks before the Iowa caucuses.
Seems like a pretty damn shady "coincidence"... Assuming those Russia sanctions don't get implemented again watch Trump try and set up a Moscow tower soon
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
Edited by musiclover420 (02/27/18 10:26 PM)
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,045
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 5 hours, 8 minutes
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25027565 - 02/27/18 10:37 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I think the Russians have dirt on trump. Why else would trump be such an ass kisser to Putin? He also seems like the easiest "mark" in the world. I've never seen anyone get played so easily.
More and more of the Steele dossier is being proven accurate. Nobody should discount the piss story just because it's so outrageous. If anything, it sounds exactly like the type of thing a pervert like trump would do.
Also, trumps personal bodyguard confirmed that when they were in Moscow, someone had sent prostitutes to his hotel room. The body guard sent them away, but he also noted that he wasn't on duty 24 hours a day
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods]
#25027599 - 02/27/18 11:01 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I think the Russians have dirt on trump. Why else would trump be such an ass kisser to Putin? He also seems like the easiest "mark" in the world. I've never seen anyone get played so easily.
I was about to bring up the piss tape but I see you brought it up It seems very plausible, though honestly the kompromaut could be much much worse.
Another possibility I've heard is something pedo related, Trump has a very creepy history including going into the girls dressing rooms at children's pagents he ran...
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-miss-teen-usa_us_57fe2cd3e4b0d505a46b1725
I'd like to think he's not that depraved but that is probably giving him too much credit.
It's very likely they have financial dirt on him as well, he's been connected to money laundering around the world for decades via his many Trump Tower's and other properties...
Also something sort of related to the piss tapes came out recently:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/02/27/kremlin-call-girl-nastya-rybka-thailand-jail/377696002/
Quote:
Thai police arrested a Belorussian call girl whose tell-all book and Instagram posts inadvertently exposed ties to the Kremlin of a Russian billionaire who’d done business with Paul Manafort, President Trump’s embattled former campaign manager.
Nastya Rybka, the self-described mistress of Russian billionaire Oleg Deripaska, is now begging for an American rescue.
"If we go back to Russia we will die in Russian's prison or they will kill us," she wrote Tuesday on her Instagram account. "Please USA help us not to die from Russians!"
On Tuesday, she posted a video offering her story to American media in exchange for help.
"I am ready to tell you about all those jigsaw puzzles you were missing, to support it with audio, video, regarding the connection between our 'dear' parliament members with Manafort, Trump and all this 'buzz' around the election in the USA," she said, while she appeared to ride in a caged vehicle. "I know a lot. Therefore, I shall wait for your offers, and I wait in the Thai prison."
Rybka's rocket-like trajectory from a little known "model" to chatty sex worker began with a corruption exposé by Alexei Navalny, a Russian opposition leader and critic of President Vladimir Putin.
Navalny used Rybka's memoir Who wants to seduce a billionaire?, her social media postings and geolocation techniques to show that she spent time in August 2016 on Deripaska's yacht off the coast of Norway. She had claimed in her book that the cruise was off the coast of Greenland.
Photos on her Instagram account, @natya_rybka.ru, showed her on the navy blue, teak-decked Elden with Deripaska. They also showed Deripaska there with Sergei Prikhodko, who's described on the Russian government's website as deputy prime minister of the Russian Federation.
Deripaska posted a statement to Instagram on Feb. 9 denouncing any claims of wrongdoing as "outrageous false allegations," and threatened to defend his "honor and dignity" in court. Prikhodko suggested to the Russian newspaper RBK Daily he would like to fight Navalny, but promised to "remain within the legal framework."
Instagram has since removed those posts after the Russian government threatened to ban the photo microblog in Russia. But photos of Rybka on an identical yacht on Aug. Navalny, whose past investigations focused on public corruption in Russia, said his research exposed bribe taking based on Prikhodko's use of Deripaska's yacht, escort, and travel on Deripaska's private jets to and from the boat after their cruise.
For American readers, however, the story links back to Trump and whether members of his political inner circle participated with the Kremlin's well-documented efforts to influence the 2016 presidential election.
Deripaska was a business associate of Paul Manafort's and hired him starting in 2006 to influence American politics to benefit Russia, according to the Associated Press. The contract stipulated $10 million a year for Manafort's services.
Special Counsel Robert Mueller, who is investigating whether any collusion occurred between the Trump campaign and Russia, indicted Manafort on several charges related to this work, including failure to register as a foreign agent and money laundering during a period that spans his time as Trump's campaign manager.
I think she claimed to know the sex workers who were allegedly involved in the piss tape incident.
Also she was suspiciously arrested in Thailand shortly after a Russian official showed up:
Quote:
For those who don't know, this woman claims to know the sex workers who were present at the Ritz Carleton during Trump's visit (i.e. For the alleged "pee tape" incident). She was not there firsthand but is one of the people who would likely have knowledge of what happened there (including the names of the sex workers who were there - if her story here is true). She also filmed herself with Manafort-associated Russian Oligarch Deripaska (and others) on a yacht.
Deripaska is said to have bribed Russian officials with sex workers (including Nastya Rybka) on the yacht so it's completely reasonable that a similar event took place at the Ritz Carlton during Trump's visit there.
Quote:
Coincidentally or not, one of Russia’s most important security and intelligence officials was also in Thailand on Tuesday. Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev, former head of the Federal Security Service, held talks in Bangkok Tuesday on the security of Russian tourists, RIA reported.

Who knows if she's telling the truth or not but it's a very interested development.
If she ends up dead or mysteriously vanishes soon I guess we will know which is most likely
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25027728 - 02/28/18 12:42 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
musiclover420 said: Guess who just lied under oath blatantly 
Why are you addressing that to me? I've said many times that I expect people in Trump's campaign to be guilty of something.
Quote:
musiclover420 said: This further raises questions around Wikilinks releasing the DNC hacking info mid election but not the RNC hack info until after the election, I've seen people deny any connection but this seems pretty damning...

First of all, Wikileaks doesn't just randomly release every bit of information they get. They tend to release things that uncover corroption or wrongdoing. Secondly, there was no sign that the Trump campaign or the current RNC was ever hacked. Only some older stuff. So there goes that theory.
Quote:
musiclover420 said: Then there's this juicy bit about Kushner:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-kushner-foreign-contacts-20180227-story,amp.html
Quote:
Officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways they can manipulate Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser, by taking advantage of his complex business arrangements, financial difficulties and lack of foreign policy experience, according to current and former U.S. officials familiar with intelligence reports on the matter.
Among those nations discussing ways to influence Kushner to their advantage were the United Arab Emirates, China, Israel and Mexico, the current and former officials said.
This is the same Kushner who has had temporary clearance for classified info for over a year despite not being able to pass his background inspection.
He just finally lost his tempory clearance today but over the past year has apparently requested more classified info then any other non NSC(National Security Council) white house official...
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/report-kushner-requests-more-intel-than-any-non-nsc-staff.html
This nothing burger seems to be getting stacked higher and higher 
So much misinformation and fake news. 
First of all, the White House Chief of Staff made a NEW rule that anyone who had an interim security clearance could no longer access top secret information until they got their permanent clearance. So a lot of people lost their top secret clearances. Nothing "juicy" about that.
Second, you'll note that the countries that talked about taking advantage of Kushner are our allies, and it didn't include Russia.
Third, even if it did include Russia, what does that have to do with Russia collusion?
Quote:
musiclover420 said: I think the people defending the GOP still really are just not paying attention, or trying to bury their heads in the sand and scream "lalalala I can't hear you!"

Actually, it appears they're the ONLY ones paying attention, as is clear from the above discussion.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods]
#25027742 - 02/28/18 12:50 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Yes. In fact I know that Ukraine used to be a part of the Soviet Union. But they're not anymore. In fact, they're enemies now as your next quote confirms. No evidence of Russian collusion, and no 'strawman'
Come on, don't pretend that you don't understand that Manafort worked for the pro Russian president of the Ukraine.
He provided consulting services to help Yanukovych win an election. What does that have to do with colluding with Russia?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25027751 - 02/28/18 12:55 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Secondly, there was no sign that the Trump campaign or the current RNC was ever hacked. Only some older stuff. So there goes that theory.
So I assume you have access to all the relevant classified info? Because it's public knowledge that at least many older emails were obtained but I doubt all the info has been released.
Even some random older emails could contain dirt or other useful info for the Russians as well so It's amazing seeing you try and downplay it...
Quote:
So much misinformation and fake news.
According to who?
Why not post some sources for your claims, maybe then I would give them at least some credibility. It all sounds like GOP/fox news talking points though...
Quote:
He provided consulting services to help Yanukovych win an election. What does that have to do with colluding with Russia? 
How do you know that's all?... You seem to have magical inside info to know exactly what is or isn't true, even though this investigation is ongoing and most of the details are still classified....
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25027764 - 02/28/18 01:06 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
musiclover420 said: Then there's this as well:
Quote:
the plans fell through. Rob Goldstone, a publicist for pop star Emin Agalarov, told Yahoo News last year that the Trump Tower deal was scrapped because "the economy tanked in Russia" from harsh sanctions imposed by Western countries.
Notice that last bit.
Ok, what about that last bit? The sanctions imposed on Russia hurt business there. Sanctions for not allowing a US backed coup to take Russia's last warm water base in Crimea for NATO.
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
One of the sources said, based on the questions, that Mueller's team was focused on the financing of the Miss Universe Pageant, such as who paid for what and what money was paid to whom. The Trump Organization has never disclosed exactly how much it was paid to hold the beauty pageant in Russia. But Trump's lawyers said in a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee that the Trump Organization made $12.2 million from foreign sources that year, and a "substantial portion" came from the Moscow event. A second area of focus was what happened during the event. The source said questions also focused on meetings Trump had with Russian business people or government officials, leading the source to believe the investigators were probing the possibility of "kompromat," or compromising material, on Trump.
About two years after the pageant, Trump Organization attorney Michael Cohen began negotiations with another Russian company for a Trump Tower in Moscow. Trump even signed a non-binding letter of intent in October 2015. But Cohen says he cut off negotiations in January 2016. One of the sources said Mueller's team has also asked about this project, in addition to the potential Agalarov deal. Trump did not mention during the presidential campaign that his company explored these two business deals in Russia. Instead, he insisted that he had "nothing to do with Russia." Even when talking about his past dealings with Russians -- like the Miss Universe pageant -- Trump never referred to the prospective deal that fell through a few weeks before the Iowa caucuses.
Seems like a pretty damn shady "coincidence"... Assuming those Russia sanctions don't get implemented again watch Trump try and set up a Moscow tower soon 
Are you aware that's it's not illegal for US entities to do business in Russia? Are you aware, for example, that McDonalds, Apple, Phillip Morris, and hundreds of other companies have a HUGE presence is Russia? There's nothing interesting or damning about Trump doing business in Russia.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,045
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 5 hours, 8 minutes
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25027774 - 02/28/18 01:17 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ok, what about that last bit? The sanctions imposed on Russia hurt business there. Sanctions for not allowing a US backed coup to take Russia's last warm water base in Crimea for NATO.]
So you admit that the Ukrainian government was a puppet for Russia
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25027805 - 02/28/18 01:38 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: there was no sign that the Trump campaign or the current RNC was ever hacked. Only some older stuff. So there goes that theory.
So I assume you have access to all the relevant classified info? Because it's public knowledge that at least many older emails were obtained but I doubt all the info has been released.
I have access to what the FBI told us which is "there is no evidence that the Trump campaign or current RNC were successfully hacked."
Quote:
musiclover420 said: Even some random older emails could contain dirt or other useful info for the Russians as well so It's amazing seeing you try and downplay it...
I'm not downplaying anything. I'm simply telling you what the FBI said: "there is no evidence that the Trump campaign or current RNC were successfully hacked."
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: So much misinformation and fake news. 
First of all, the White House Chief of Staff made a NEW rule that anyone who had an interim security clearance could no longer access top secret information until they got their permanent clearance. So a lot of people lost their top secret clearances. Nothing "juicy" about that.
Second, you'll note that the countries that talked about taking advantage of Kushner are our allies, and it didn't include Russia.
Third, even if it did include Russia, what does that have to do with Russia collusion?
According to who?
Why not post some sources for your claims, maybe then I would give them at least some credibility. It all sounds like GOP/fox news talking points though...
Do you trust CNN?
Quote:
Kushner, along with other White House officials who had been operating on interim clearances, had their access altered last week after chief of staff John Kelly stipulated new changes to the security clearance system.
Aides who previously operated on "top secret/sensitive compartmented information" interim clearances saw their access changed to "secret," a classification for less sensitive material.
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: He provided consulting services to help Yanukovych win an election. What does that have to do with colluding with Russia? 
How do you know that's all?... You seem to have magical inside info to know exactly what is or isn't true, even though this investigation is ongoing and most of the details are still classified....

I didn't say I "know exactly what is or isn't true". I simply asked what consulting services to help Yanukovych win an election has to do with collusion, and you dodged the question.
But if you have "magical inside info to know exactly what is or isn't true", please share because you seem to be confident something went on without ANY evidence.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (02/28/18 01:59 AM)
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods]
#25027818 - 02/28/18 01:48 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
musiclover420 said: Then there's this as well:
Quote:
the plans fell through. Rob Goldstone, a publicist for pop star Emin Agalarov, told Yahoo News last year that the Trump Tower deal was scrapped because "the economy tanked in Russia" from harsh sanctions imposed by Western countries.
Notice that last bit.
Ok, what about that last bit? The sanctions imposed on Russia hurt business there. Sanctions for not allowing a US backed coup to take Russia's last warm water base in Crimea for NATO.
So you admit that the Ukrainian government was a puppet for Russia

No I don't admit that. I admit that he was on friendlier terms with Russia than his US selected replacement.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25028750 - 02/28/18 01:19 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I'm not downplaying anything. I'm simply telling you what the FBI said: "there is no evidence that the Trump campaign or current RNC were successfully hacked."
Except that you already admitted Russians at least got many older emails. So were they successfully hacked or not?
If they were not successful how did they get the emails not just from the DNC but the RNC as well?
Also you realize sometimes people learn new info later that changes things, or downright lie or say misleading things right?...
Quote:
Do you trust CNN?
What does that have to do with anything? Also I notice you still aren't backing up any of your claims with sources or facts...
CNN is not the only source reporting on this either so I really don't get what point you're trying to make...
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
|