|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,045
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 5 hours, 8 minutes
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25010149 - 02/21/18 09:24 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
What fake news has the Washington post printed? Any reporter making up a story would be fired on the spot.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods]
#25010258 - 02/21/18 10:21 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
What or who are you responding to?
Edit: Oh n/m, fal. I think "fake news" has essentially become "negative opinions that include speculation." It's not "fake" and I don't think it's wrong, but there's a point you can cross in which it is detrimental.
People should have the facts, which could include speculation on the implications of those facts, but should be encouraged to form their own opinion. When you have talking heads who espouse essentially nothing but their biased opinion at you after awhile you tend to accept the opinions as truth and think they are your own. It has an self reinforcing effect as well as whichever direction that pushes you you go further into it only listening to those news opinions that you agree with. Before long you're just a fox news tool (or w/e your flavor is) and have no opinions of your own anymore, you forgo free thought, critical thinking, and essentially jist become an extension of that mouth piece.
Edited by krypto2000 (02/21/18 10:28 AM)
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25010275 - 02/21/18 10:33 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
krypto2000 said: What or who are you responding to?
The quote in your last post...
Anyways:
http://www.euronews.com/2018/02/21/trump-russia-investigation-lawyer-becomes-19th-person-charged-pleads-guilty
Quote:
A lawyer has become the 19th person to be charged as part of the US investigation into possible collusion between President Donald Trump's election campaign team and Russia.
Attorney Alex van der Zwaan, the son-in-law of a Russian oligarch named in the controversial Steele dossier, has pleaded guilty to lying to investigators.
The case involves work that van der Zwaan performed in 2012 about Ukraine for two former Trump campaign aides.
The charges make no mention of the campaign or the 2016 election but experts say they show the extent of the probe being conducted by Special Counsel Robert Mueller.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods]
#25010527 - 02/21/18 12:35 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
krypto2000 said:
Quote:
koods said: What fake news has the Washington post printed? Any reporter making up a story would be fired on the spot.
I think "fake news" has essentially become "negative opinions that include speculation."
Exactly.
Do you know how many times you've excitedly made a post from the Washington Post about how they're about to get Trump on Russia collusion, only to learn that it's another nothing burger? Do you recall betting me that people would be indicted for Russia related activity based on things you read in the Washington Post, only to lost that bet?
Quote:
krypto2000 said: People should have the facts, which could include speculation on the implications of those facts, but should be encouraged to form their own opinion. When you have talking heads who espouse essentially nothing but their biased opinion at you after awhile you tend to accept the opinions as truth and think they are your own.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25012204 - 02/22/18 12:21 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Here's a great article on what a great Nothingburger this whole indictment turned out to be. The article is full of good information; I'll just post a few snippets:
Mueller's Comic Book Indictment: How to Prosecute A Great Big Nothingburger
Quote:
Mueller's 37-page comic book indictment actually unmasks---inadvertently to be sure---the distinctly un-terrifying essence of the whole Russian meddling narrative.
According to Facebook itself, the seemingly ubiquitous social media ad campaign despicted in the indictment was nothing of the kind. It actually amounted to just 3,000 placements at a cost of $100,000---more than half of which were purchased after the election, and 25% of which ended-up in its dead letter office (unread).
Likewise, the handful of efforts to actually stimulate pro-Trump rallies in Florida and elsewhere were abject failures. As we document below, the Russians had absolutely no "ground game" in the US and any third-rate campaign consultant will tell you that ads alone do not produce crowds. In fact, there is virtually no evidence that anyone showed up at the rallies cited by Mueller.
The indictment cites such slogans as:
"Vote Republican, vote Trump, and support the Second Amendment!". "Trump is our only hope for a better future!" "Donald wants to defeat terrorism...Hillary wants to sponsor it"
Really?
It took a clandestine nest of Russkie imposters and subversives to pollute the social media with this kind of tripe?
In fact, RNC, Fox News and the Trump campaign were already saturating the internet with these messages, anyway----along with millions of pro-Trump social media activists. The 80 Russian operatives cited by Mueller didn't add one damn bit to the massive social media messaging that was already out there.
So here's the joker in the whole deck. It seems that the nefarious"troll farm" in St. Petersburg that comprises nearly the totality of Mueller's case is not a Russian intelligence agency operation at all.
Instead, it's the relatively harmless Hobby Farm of a fanatical Russian oligarch and ultra-nationalist, Yevgeny Prigozhin, who has a great big beef against Imperial Washington's demonization of Russia and Vlad Putin.
With his comic book indictment, Robert Mueller has actually made himself a mortal threat to America's democracy and national security. That's because his indictment is unleashing a rabid anti-Russian mania in the Democratic party and turning flaming liberals and leftwing progressives, who used to form the backbone of the peace party in America, into outright war-mongers.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#25012760 - 02/22/18 09:27 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
It's hard to take that guy seriously starting off with such an inflammatory and biased title as that. I wouldn't expect someone to entertain an article titled "How a tiny handed orange russian pedophile rigged the US presidency." I wouldn't read the first sentence of that.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25013021 - 02/22/18 11:20 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
But he's spot on. It's not a biased title if he's correct, and it's not inflammatory unless you started a thread thinking we're finally getting somewhere.
If you actually read the article, you'll find that there truly is no meat in the latest indictment. If there's anything at all in that article you feel is wrong, let's discuss. That's what this forum is for.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#25013285 - 02/22/18 01:24 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I think the article is devoid of any substance and you like it because it agrees with your preconceived ideas. As I've already said I don't think the facebook ads are much of a threat from what I've seen, as far as that goes there's nothing more to add.
It's efforts like the troll farm that concern me, yet he doesn't touch on that other than to dismiss it because it was lead by a russian oligarch instead of putin himself, as if that has any baring on the implications resulting from it.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25013343 - 02/22/18 01:56 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
krypto2000 said: It's efforts like the troll farm that concern me, yet he doesn't touch on that other than to dismiss it because it was lead by a russian oligarch instead of putin himself, as if that has any baring on the implications resulting from it.
Let's talk about the troll farm then.
Facebook is in almost every country in the world. Their primary purpose, as with any business, is to make money. There was no reason for them not to take money from a Russian oligarch, until the Democrats had a hissy fit about it. After which point Facebook stopped doing it. What's your concern?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000] 1
#25013507 - 02/22/18 03:01 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
krypto2000 said: I wouldn't read the first sentence of that.
Quote:
krypto2000 said: I think the article is devoid of any substance
So did you read past the first sentence or not
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25013635 - 02/22/18 03:42 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
krypto2000 said: It's efforts like the troll farm that concern me, yet he doesn't touch on that other than to dismiss it because it was lead by a russian oligarch instead of putin himself, as if that has any baring on the implications resulting from it.
Let's talk about the troll farm then.
Facebook is in almost every country in the world. Their primary purpose, as with any business, is to make money. There was no reason for them not to take money from a Russian oligarch, until the Democrats had a hissy fit about it. After which point Facebook stopped doing it. What's your concern?
There is a reason, it's illegal, if it were not then they wouldn't have had to go through the trouble of forging ids and opening US bank accounts to pay for the ads. The troll farm is unrelated to the ads though, they are just comments on public forums.
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25013648 - 02/22/18 03:44 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
musiclover420 said:
Quote:
krypto2000 said: I wouldn't read the first sentence of that.
Quote:
krypto2000 said: I think the article is devoid of any substance
So did you read past the first sentence or not 
You're taking those quotes out of context. I read what Fal linked, my "I wouldn't read the first sentence of that" was referencing my analogous, and hypothetical, article with the russian puppet title.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25013878 - 02/22/18 05:00 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
krypto2000 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Facebook is in almost every country in the world. Their primary purpose, as with any business, is to make money. There was no reason for them not to take money from a Russian oligarch, until the Democrats had a hissy fit about it. After which point Facebook stopped doing it. What's your concern?
There is a reason, it's illegal, if it were not then they wouldn't have had to go through the trouble of forging ids and opening US bank accounts to pay for the ads. The troll farm is unrelated to the ads though, they are just comments on public forums.
But they weren't forging IDs and opening US bank accounts to put the ads on Facebook; they were doing that to create PayPal accounts that could be used to accept donations and then in turn pay for ads. I'm not defending that, I'm just saying it's not as scary as the establishment would like us to believe.
Facebook issued a statement saying that the vast majority of the $100,000 in ads didn't violate campaign contribution rules.
Quote:
krypto2000 said:
Quote:
musiclover420 said: So did you read past the first sentence or not 
You're taking those quotes out of context. I read what Fal linked, my "I wouldn't read the first sentence of that" was referencing my analogous, and hypothetical, article with the russian puppet title.
The question is still valid: Did you read the article or not?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25014031 - 02/22/18 05:54 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I did after you had asked me to.
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 3 hours, 15 minutes
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25014047 - 02/22/18 06:03 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Hold back more indictments! Wait, not related to Russia, again?
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/22/mueller-adds-new-tax-bank-fraud-charges-against-manafort-gates-422335
Mueller adds new tax, bank fraud charges against Manafort, Gates Special counsel files new criminal case against pair in northern Virginia.
Special counsel Robert Mueller turned up the pressure on former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and aide Rick Gates, as a federal grand jury returned a new indictment Thursday charging the two men with tax and bank fraud.
The new 32-count indictment returned by a grand jury in Alexandria, Virginia comes after Mueller separately charged the pair in Washington last year with money laundering and failing to register as foreign agents for their work related to Ukraine.
The new indictment accuses Manafort and Gates of dramatically understating their income on federal tax returns filed from 2010 through 2014. The pair is also accused of bank fraud totaling more than $20 million tied to three loans Manafort applied for in connection with various homes he owns.
In all, Manafort and Gates laundered more than $30 million in income, chiefly from their Ukraine work, the new indictment alleges.
None of the charges currently facing the pair appears to relate directly to the core of Mueller's investigation into alleged Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign. But the special counsel has jurisdiction to pursue any crimes he finds in the course of his probe, and the new charges Thursday show he is ramping up pressure on the former aides to President Donald Trump.
Some of the alleged bank fraud appears to have overlapped with the Trump campaign. Manafort and Gates joined the campaign in the spring of 2016 to help plan for the Republican National Convention, and Manafort was campaign chairman from May until he resigned on Aug. 19. But the White House has subsequently tried to distance itself from him, with Trump saying at one point that Manafort only worked for him for a “very short period of time.”
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (02/22/18 06:06 PM)
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot]
#25014052 - 02/22/18 06:05 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Hold back more indictments! Wait, not related to Russia, again?
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/22/mueller-adds-new-tax-bank-fraud-charges-against-manafort-gates-422335
These 2 are looking pretty damn fucked So much financial fraud... I wonder if they are expecting a pardon from Trump.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 3 hours, 15 minutes
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25014067 - 02/22/18 06:10 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Might be that Mueller is pissed that Bannon didn't spill the beans on Trump(if there was any beans to spill) so he is ratcheting it up a notch.
Or maybe,this is what the investigation will come up with?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot]
#25014086 - 02/22/18 06:16 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Might be that Mueller is pissed that Bannon didn't spill the beans on Trump(if there was any beans to spill) so he is ratcheting it up a notch.
Or maybe,this is what the investigation will come up with?
Bannon was interviewed for 20 hours, so he probably tried lying/ hiding things but I doubt it worked out very well 
Mueller seems to have been very professional and methodical so far, we haven't even heard about most interviews until after they happened, and it's mostly been leaks from people he interviewed.
So very likely there's a lot more going on behind the scenes, who knows how many more indictments there already are that are just still sealed by court order
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: musiclover420]
#25014095 - 02/22/18 06:21 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Funny how we don't hear about any investigation into all the dirty people involved in hillary's campaign. This is a political witch hunt, granted they may have gotten real dirt on those two, but the aim is to get at trump which is why you guys are drooling over the prospect. Be prepared to be cruelly disappointed.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#25014100 - 02/22/18 06:24 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
|