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krypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25007587 - 02/20/18 09:38 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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This keeps getting brought up and I get your point, at least partially, but don't you agree that doesn't justify meddling in ours/others? I mean from their perspective it might justify it, but from our perspective it's not as if we're going to be more okay with it because we've done wrong to others or in some way view it as less of a threat/not retaliate etc.
Also do you think all election meddling is bad? I don't. I mean, primarily, if their countries election is rigged as it is, say by a dictator, and we are actually trying to bring a true democracy to the people I would say that is good. Now I would say that's only a hypothetical because when we bring 'democracy' it tends to come with all sorts of strings attached that subvert any gains from the start and essentially rig it ourselves from there on.
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qman
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25007616 - 02/20/18 09:50 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm never going to vote again unless someone can guarantee that I haven't been a victim of election "meddling", which is impossible to do.
Facebook destroyed democracy.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25007729 - 02/20/18 10:40 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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>If Bernie won, someone I actually wanted to be president, and the same allegations were true I would want it investigated. I would be worried that if it turned out he were innocent yet would have lost otherwise how it might affect things, but I'd still want to know.
Innocent of what? of benefiting from others posting and making ads? Lets say its true they were russians some of them and they spent money and used fake names. So what? Its a tempest in a teapot.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25007732 - 02/20/18 10:44 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: This keeps getting brought up and I get your point, at least partially, but don't you agree that doesn't justify meddling in ours/others?
Yes, I agree. We've proven that we meddle in elections everywhere there, but we haven't yet proven that Russia meddles in elections here; only that they spy on us.
Quote:
krypto2000 said: Also do you think all election meddling is bad? I don't. I mean, primarily, if their countries election is rigged as it is, say by a dictator, and we are actually trying to bring a true democracy to the people I would say that is good. Now I would say that's only a hypothetical because when we bring 'democracy' it tends to come with all sorts of strings attached that subvert any gains from the start and essentially rig it ourselves from there on.
Where have we brought true democracy since the Korean war?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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krypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman]
#25007743 - 02/20/18 10:48 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: I'm never going to vote again unless someone can guarantee that I haven't been a victim of election "meddling", which is impossible to do.
Facebook destroyed democracy. 
Haha, what? Who said anything like that? It's more like, "I'm not going to clean the table after my drunk friend took a shit on it and just eat dinner as usual."
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krypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#25007748 - 02/20/18 10:50 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >If Bernie won, someone I actually wanted to be president, and the same allegations were true I would want it investigated. I would be worried that if it turned out he were innocent yet would have lost otherwise how it might affect things, but I'd still want to know.
Innocent of what? of benefiting from others posting and making ads? Lets say its true they were russians some of them and they spent money and used fake names. So what? Its a tempest in a teapot.
I'm trying to flip the roles and view it from your perspective. You don't believe Trump is guilty of anything, and I don't believe Berney would be either. Thus even if he is innocent, even if he would have lost without the outside influence, I would want it investigated.
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krypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#25007749 - 02/20/18 10:51 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
krypto2000 said: This keeps getting brought up and I get your point, at least partially, but don't you agree that doesn't justify meddling in ours/others?
Yes, I agree. We've proven that we meddle in elections everywhere there, but we haven't yet proven that Russia meddles in elections here; only that they spy on us.
Quote:
krypto2000 said: Also do you think all election meddling is bad? I don't. I mean, primarily, if their countries election is rigged as it is, say by a dictator, and we are actually trying to bring a true democracy to the people I would say that is good. Now I would say that's only a hypothetical because when we bring 'democracy' it tends to come with all sorts of strings attached that subvert any gains from the start and essentially rig it ourselves from there on.
Where have we brought true democracy since the Korean war?
I don't think we have hence that last line about it, unfortunately, in reality only being a hypothetical.
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qman
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000] 1
#25007794 - 02/20/18 11:11 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said:
Quote:
qman said: I'm never going to vote again unless someone can guarantee that I haven't been a victim of election "meddling", which is impossible to do.
Facebook destroyed democracy. 
Haha, what? Who said anything like that? It's more like, "I'm not going to clean the table after my drunk friend took a shit on it and just eat dinner as usual."
My Facebook was loaded with pro-Trump propaganda and I fell victim to it, who's to say it won't happen again?
Should I put myself into total isolation months before an election? I don't want anything "meddling" with my vulnerable mind.
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krypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman] 2
#25007803 - 02/20/18 11:15 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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No, you should be mindful of what you read, check the primary sources supporting anything that sounds suspicious, etc. If anything you should become more politically active. If I get a terrible sun burn my take away isn't that I should never go outside again, it's that I should do something to mitigate it such as wear sun screen next time. Right? Is that a far out concept?
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qman
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25007825 - 02/20/18 11:20 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: No, you should be mindful of what you read, check the primary sources supporting anything that sounds suspicious, etc. If anything you should become more politically active. If I get a terrible sun burn my take away isn't that I should never go outside again, it's that I should do something to mitigate it such as put on sun screen.
I obviously need someone like yourself to hold my hand through the process, are you up for it? I highly suspicious of everything now. 
My brain was hacked into by a foreign government, how does one recover from such an occurrence? They don't.
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krypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman] 1
#25007836 - 02/20/18 11:26 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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It sounds like you're saying you might be lacking in higher reasoning and critical thinking skills. That should have been your parents, community, and the education systems responsibility, but if they failed you then unfortunately it's now your own. Maybe you could find a local meetup group that might help with fostering those.
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25007907 - 02/20/18 12:07 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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>You don't believe Trump is guilty of anything, and I don't believe Berney would be either.
Guilty of what exactly? What is it you think he is guilty of?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25007939 - 02/20/18 12:23 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: you should be mindful of what you read, check the primary sources supporting anything that sounds suspicious, etc. If anything you should become more politically active. If I get a terrible sun burn my take away isn't that I should never go outside again, it's that I should do something to mitigate it such as wear sun screen next time. Right? Is that a far out concept?
So if Russia proves the DNC is biased enough that their chairperson is forced to resign I should ignore it, but if an American tells me the same thing I should give him a whistleblower medal? Does it really matter where the information came from?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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krypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge]
#25007942 - 02/20/18 12:25 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Conspiring with Russia, right? Isn't that what we were talking about in the hypothetical scenario above?
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krypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25007961 - 02/20/18 12:32 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
krypto2000 said: you should be mindful of what you read, check the primary sources supporting anything that sounds suspicious, etc. If anything you should become more politically active. If I get a terrible sun burn my take away isn't that I should never go outside again, it's that I should do something to mitigate it such as wear sun screen next time. Right? Is that a far out concept?
So if Russia proves the DNC is biased enough that their chairperson is forced to resign I should ignore it, but if an American tells me the same thing I should give him a whistleblower medal? Does it really matter where the information came from?
How did you get that from my post? Facts are facts, regardless of the source they should not be ignored, of course not. The source does matter though, very much so, because if the source looks suspicious you should probably look into it more, definitely not ignore it, unless you are already familiar with that source and have learned they're not credible then yeah, it's probably wise to dismiss it rather than waste time looking into it.
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koods
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25007991 - 02/20/18 12:41 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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These indictments back up even more of the Steele dossier. Steele does seem to have been getting a lot of reliable information. I think trump could legitimately be compromised with damaging or criminal information. And he acts like he's being blackmailed. Never a bad word about Putin. So strange
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
#25007996 - 02/20/18 12:42 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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krypto2000 said: Facts are facts, regardless of the source they should not be ignored, of course not.
No one denies the DNC emails are real, and the DNC Chair was forced to resign as a result.
Did it matter if Russia, Seth Rich, or another person leaked them?
As for the Facebook ads, why don't you post an example of one that we should simply ignore if it came from Russia, but read if it came from an American? I think it doesn't really matter just the same. Reality is reality, and bullshit is bullshit no matter what the source.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: koods]
#25008004 - 02/20/18 12:43 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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koods said: he (Trump) acts like he's being blackmailed. Never a bad word about Putin. So strange
Did that become a requirement of The President after Hillary said she dislikes Putin?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25008025 - 02/20/18 12:54 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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I wonder what the RNC emails were saying about Trump. What kind of bullsht were the republicans up to. We know they were OPENLY conspiring against trump. But we will never know because the hacks were designed to be asymmetric
One side has all their dirty laundry aired, and the other operated in total secrecy. All their private communications published. How many people would come out unscathed by embarrassing or shocking revelations if all their PMs and emails were made public?
I can only imagine the things someone like trump says privately. Behind the scene politics is like watching sausages being made. It's gross. In 2016 we only saw one side's sausage factory. That is significant.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#25008044 - 02/20/18 12:59 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said: he (Trump) acts like he's being blackmailed. Never a bad word about Putin. So strange
Did that become a requirement of The President after Hillary said she dislikes Putin?
Trump treats Putin differently than anyone else. Im not talking about dislike. Trump insults everyone. Except Putin.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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