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Offlinekrypto2000
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Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference * 2
    #24998705 - 02/16/18 12:20 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

The hammer is coming down fellas.

edit: Here is a link to the actual indictments if you want to read that out. The WaPo I chose because it's purposefully lacking any details. Literally every news source is covering this, the story is not lacking in details, only the article I linked; choose your own flavor and come back to have an actual discussion about it.


Edited by krypto2000 (02/16/18 01:07 PM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24998745 - 02/16/18 12:39 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

You guys are just going to deny and dismiss it rather than investigate? That's your natural reaction?

This is literally a MAJOR story, just dropping, and the media is all over it; details are a plenty if you care to find them, I'm not going to spoon feed anyone. I chose the least biased/inflammatory source for that very reason that I wanted unbiased opinions and didn't want to start this off by leading anyone through my own bias.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24998777 - 02/16/18 01:01 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

The washington post is right leaning so no, they're definitely not unbiased, but they were in this case because they literally provided no details to impart a bias on. I'm leaving it up to you to see what your preferred sources have to report on it. Here is a link to the indictments themselves if you prefer to comb through it yourself, I've also edited the main post to link this.

Why keep attacking the messenger here though before you even read the message?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24998850 - 02/16/18 01:55 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I've pointed out before that the Washington Post and CNN are the two leading fake news agencies.





So what sources have you checked to verify or refute this story? What's your opinion after reading those?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24998853 - 02/16/18 01:56 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
WP is right leaning? In an alternate universe perhaps, not in this one.

All I saw was the russians posted on social media and gave the impression they were usa citizens. This is all the far left can come up with? Bogus indictments based on technicalities? We were told they had the goods on trump and he would soon be out. Now after more than a year and all they have is this nothing burger?

USA does the same exact thing all the time, is doing it right now. We have paid trolls shilling on this very site, they are on many english language sites, many russian, etc sites. Whats the difference? We have gone in and overthrown governments by force, paid money to opposition groups to do it for us and anything else you could think of and put our puppets in power. Shaw of iran just for example. But we are shocked and indignant when they use social media? lol




So you haven't read anything then? Why not read the indictments themselves? There's plenty more than that outlined in there.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24998864 - 02/16/18 02:01 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Read this post.

Quote:

Excerpts from the indictments:

    Defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign") and disparaging Hillary Clinton. Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities, including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities. Defendants also staged political rallies inside the United States, and while posing as U.S. grassroots entities and U.S. persons, and without revealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation, solicited and compensated real U.S. persons to promote or disparage candidates. Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities.

    In order to carry out their activities to interfere in U.S. political and electoral processes without detection of their Russian affiliation, Defendants conspired to obstruct the lawful functions of the United States government through fraud and deceit, including by making expenditures in connection with the 2016 U.S. presidential election without proper regulatory disclosure; failing to register as foreign agents carrying out political activities within the United States; and obtaining visas through false and fraudulent statements.

    Defendants and their co-conspirators used their fictitious online personas to interfere with the 2016 U.S. presidential election. They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump.

    On or about February 10, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators internally circulated an outline of themes for future content to be posted to ORGANIZATION-controlled social media accounts. Specialists were instructed to post content that focused on "politics in the USA" and to "use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump--we support them)."

    From at least April 2016 through November 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators, while concealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation through false personas, began to produce, purchase, and post advertisements on U.S. social media and other online sites expressly advocating for the election of then-candidate Trump or expressly opposing Clinton. Defendants and their co-conspirators did not report their expenditures to the Federal Election Commission, or register as foreign agents with the U.S. Department of Justice. The political advertisements included the following:

       
Quote:

April 6, 2016 "You know, a great number of black people support us saying that #HillaryClintonlsNotMyPresident"
        April 7, 2016 "I say no to Hillary Clinton / I say no to manipulation"
        April 19, 2016 "JOIN our #HillaryClintonForPrison2016"
        May 10, 2016 "Donald wants to defeat terrorism ... Hillary wants to sponsor it"
        May 19, 2016 "Vote Republican, vote Trump, and support the Second Amendment!"
        May 24, 2016 "Hillary Clinton Doesn't Deserve the Black Vote"
        June 7, 2016 "Trump is our only hope for a better future!"
        June 30, 2016 "#Never Hillary #Hillary F orPrison #Hillary4 Prison #HillaryForPrison2016 #Trump2016 #Trump #Trump4President"
        July 20, 2016 "Ohio Wants Hillary 4 Prison"
        August 4, 2016 "Hillary Clinton has already committed voter fraud during the Democrat Iowa Caucus."
        August 10, 2016 "We cannot trust Hillary to take care of our veterans!"
        October 14, 2016 "Among all the candidates Donald Trump is the one and only who can defend the police from terrorists."
        October 19, 2016 "Hillary is a Satan, and her crimes and lies had proved just how evil she is."




    To pay for the political advertisements, Defendants and their co-conspirators established various Russian bank accounts and credit cards, often registered in the names of fictitious U.S. personas created and used by the ORGANIZATION on social media. Defendants and their coconspirators also paid for other political advertisements using PayPal accounts.

    Beginning in at least 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators used, without lawful authority, the social security numbers, home addresses, and birth dates ofreal U.S. persons without their knowledge or consent. Using these means of stolen identification, Defendants and their coconspirators opened accounts at a federally insured U.S. financial institution ("Bank I")

    Defendants and their co-conspirators purchased credit card and bank account numbers from online sellers for the unlawful purpose of evading security measures at PayPal, which used account numbers to verify a user's identity. Many of the bank account numbers purchased by Defendants and their co-conspirators were created using the stolen identities of real U.S. persons. After purchasing the accounts, Defendants and their co-conspirators submitted these bank account numbers to PayPal.

    On or about August 18, 2016, the real "Florida for Trump" Facebook account responded to the false U.S. persona "Matt Skiber" account with instructions to contact a member of the Trump Campaign ("Campaign Official l ") involved in the campaign's Florida operations and provided Campaign Official 1's email address at the campaign domain donaldtrump.com.On approximately the same day, Defendants and their co-conspirators used the email address of a false U.S. persona, joshmilton024@gmail.com, to send an email to Campaign Official 1 at that donaldtrump.com email account, which read in part:

       
Quote:

"Hello [Campaign Official l], [w]e are organizing a state-wide event in Florida on August, 20 to support Mr. Trump. Let us introduce ourselves first. "Being Patriotic" is a grassroots conservative online movement trying to unite people offline. . . . [W]e gained a huge lot of followers and decided to somehow help Mr. Trump get elected. You know, simple yelling on the Internet is not enough. There should be real action. We organized rallies in New York before. Now we're focusing on purple states such as Florida." The email also identified thirteen "confirmed locations" in Florida for the rallies and requested the campaign provide "assistance in each location."




    On or about August 24, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators updated an internal ORGANIZATION list of over 100 real U.S. persons contacted through ORGANIZATIONcontrolled false U.S. persona accounts and tracked to monitor recruitment efforts and requests. The list included contact information for the U.S. persons, a summary of their political views, and activities they had been asked to perform by Defendants and their co-conspirators.






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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #24998932 - 02/16/18 02:34 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Are you guys reading the same things I am? In the quote above it mentions how they made fake ID's and held political rallies in US soil, hired US persons to falsely campaign for them, etc. The social media aspect is only a small portion of what is outlined.

Why do you guys not read before forming opinions and then commenting? We're about a page deep already and it seems like I'm the only one who did anything more than read the headline even lol. Are you people real?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24998940 - 02/16/18 02:36 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
LOL

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-indictment-2016-elections-rod-rosenstein-announcement-today-2018-02-16/

"There's no allegation that any American was knowingly involved in the conspiracy, Rosenstein said. Nor was there an allegation that the efforts of the defendants affected the outcome of the election. The indictment, he told reporters, is a reminder that "people are not always who they appear to be"



Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Unless I see  a paper trail of funds from Trump to these "Russian nationals", nothing burger.

People, foreign governments always try to influence others elections, the US actually creates and installs them.





What does this have to do with Trump or US persons? This is about Russian's interfering with the election. Stay on topic.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24999209 - 02/16/18 04:36 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

16 indictments with numerous charges from identity theft to bank fraud and conspiracy directly linked to election interference is not news? So if it's not news to you does that mean you accept that the Russian's interfered in the 2016 election?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #24999249 - 02/16/18 04:52 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

He apparently thinks an illegal immigrant making a facebook account and campaigning is equivalent to bank fraud, wire fraud, identity theft, and conspiracy lol. These people are either in denial or they are trolls, it's very hard to take them seriously sometimes; it's hard for me to fathom that people can be so blind and beholden to an idea that they ignore reality. It's literally like a religion to them.

I value intelligence, truth, compassion, and honesty. Yes I don't like to be wrong, but if someone presents me with a paper outlining exactly why I am I will read it because that's how I become not wrong, I either change or find the flaws in the evidence presented. I'm not going to double down on my denial and attack the person who made a photo copy of it, make some whataboutisms, jokes, or otherwise deflect because whether that person is convinced or not I still have to live with the ideas I hold in my own mind.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman]
    #24999344 - 02/16/18 05:31 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, I had posted this three weeks ago.

It's a long article and I know you guys hate reading, but this is the most relevant bit as far as that goes; the dutch have literal video surveillance of the attack taking place from the attackers end, literally everyone that came and left the facility over a multi year period while the surveillance was going on.

Quote:

Access to Cozy Bear turns out to be a goldmine for the Dutch hackers. For years, it supplies them with valuable intelligence about targets, methods and the interests of the highest ranking officials of the Russian security service. From the pictures taken of visitors, the AIVD deduces that the hacker group is led by Russia's external intelligence agency SVR.

There's a reason the AIVD writes in its annual report about 2014 that many Russian government officials, including president Putin, use secret services to obtain information. Recently, the head of the AIVD, Rob Bertholee, said on the Dutch TV program CollegeTour that there is 'no question' that the Kremlin is behind the Russian hacking activities.




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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: qman] * 1
    #24999374 - 02/16/18 05:41 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
He apparently thinks an illegal immigrant making a facebook account and campaigning is equivalent to bank fraud, wire fraud, identity theft, and conspiracy lol. These people are either in denial or they are trolls, it's very hard to take them seriously sometimes; it's hard for me to fathom that people can be so blind and beholden to an idea that they ignore reality. It's literally like a religion to them.




"bank fraud, wire fraud, identity theft"

We get it, those are all illegal acts. They had no impact on the election. :shrug:




1.) Maybe you now get it, I'm glad to hear that if so, but if you read this thread you'll see there are many still who do not.

2.) That's simply your opinion, it is not a fact and not only hasn't been proven true but cannot be proven true because you can't prove a negative.

3.) Why does it matter if it had an impact or not? It's a crime all the same. If I attempt to kill you and fail are you going to call it a nothing burger because I failed?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24999386 - 02/16/18 05:44 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
16 indictments with numerous charges from identity theft to bank fraud and conspiracy directly linked to election interference is not news? So if it's not news to you does that mean you accept that the Russian's interfered in the 2016 election?




If I answer will I be off topic? LOL
It's news. Tell me where this was orchestrated by Trump? Of course there was meddling. Every powerful nation trys to influence foriegn elections.
Do you have evidence that votes were changed (via hacking)?????

Please be specific.




I don't understand what you are getting at here. No one brought up Trump until you did. No one said Trump would not have won without the Russian campaign. The point is that the Russians are actively and on a wide scale trying to manipulate our elections. Does that not bother you? Sure we do it to others and that's fucked up too, but if someone robs my house I'm not going to dismiss it and sleep better knowing that my brother has robbed people as well, that makes me sleep even worse.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #24999406 - 02/16/18 05:51 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

The article says the Russians supported the Trump campaign. It makes no claim of the trump campaign "wittingly" being involved, and it certainly makes no mention of Trump being involved; thus your defense of trump was unwarranted and I asked why you brought it up. Why would you defend something not being attacked?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24999425 - 02/16/18 06:00 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Can you quote what I was wrong about please?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: krypto2000]
    #24999443 - 02/16/18 06:05 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Unless I see  a paper trail of funds from Trump to these "Russian nationals", nothing burger.

People, foreign governments always try to influence others elections, the US actually creates and installs them.





What does this have to do with Trump or US persons? This is about Russian's interfering with the election. Stay on topic.




Here, I'll go ahead and do it myself to save you the time. Is this the post where you claim I'm wrong?

The one where you say 16 russians interfering with our election on a national scale is a "nothing burger" because there's not a paper trail linking it to trump? Hmm... :strokebeard:


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #24999633 - 02/16/18 07:20 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
LOL

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-indictment-2016-elections-rod-rosenstein-announcement-today-2018-02-16/

"There's no allegation that any American was knowingly involved in the conspiracy, Rosenstein said. Nor was there an allegation that the efforts of the defendants affected the outcome of the election. The indictment, he told reporters, is a reminder that "people are not always who they appear to be"



Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Unless I see  a paper trail of funds from Trump to these "Russian nationals", nothing burger.

People, foreign governments always try to influence others elections, the US actually creates and installs them.





What does this have to do with Trump or US persons? This is about Russian's interfering with the election. Stay on topic.




Ok after this say what you will. For the record. The investigation is about the Trump campaign. We argree on that?

The hopes of all alphabet channels and Dems is to get Trump impeached.....we agree here?

I commented the above as it directly related to the investigation and the hopes it would be linked to Trump.

Then you tell me to stay on topic, even though you clearly linked an article and the whole newsworthy reason....it could be linked to Trump.




The investigation is about the Russian election interference and anything that involved. That MIGHT include trump, it might not. I personally do believe it very unlikely he was not involved but this is not evide ce he was. There has been no evidence he was recently and the existing evidence has been discussed enough already, either it's compelling enough to you or it's not.

Until something new tied to trump comes out I see no reason to argue that as I'm not going to change anyone's mind. I think the major flaw in your thinking here is that you think it's some grand conspiracy to catch trump as opposed to a genuine inquiry into election interference as you have laid out in this post. Do you think the whole investigation is a farce? If so then what's your rational for these legitament indictments?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Rahz]
    #25001318 - 02/17/18 01:15 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
16 indictments with numerous charges from identity theft to bank fraud and conspiracy directly linked to election interference is not news? So if it's not news to you does that mean you accept that the Russian's interfered in the 2016 election?




Unless they swung the election it's not big news. If there was no chance it would lead to Trump it wouldn't be the hot topic. That it doesn't implicate Trump is only a minor issue because it's still alluded to in the context of the ongoing get Trump narrative. Every little tidbit of news that's even slightly related to Trump is about Trump.




Unless they altered who won it's not a big deal? Unless the president is implicated it's not important news?

To put it another way 13 individuals and 3 Russian organizations unwittingly influencing members of the campaign, and imo more importantly, large swathes of the voter base to the point where there is literally a political divide in this country, a divide not seen in decades, is not a big deal?

I don't want the president to be implicated, I don't want the leader of our country to be corrupt, much less a foreign agent, knowingly or unknowingly, and I sure do not want a foreign adversary to actively attempt to undermine our democracy whether successfully or not. I don't want to fight with my neighbors. If Trump is innocent that's great, that's sure better than him being guilty, however if these things did happen I would want that knowledge to come out into the public domain, the criminals involved prosecuted, and measures taken place to restore and secure said democracy with the knowledge gained. Can both sides not agree on that at least? That is why I, and I feel everyone, should support the investigation. This isn't a football game where you pick sides, we should all be on the same side regardless what you actually think the outcome will be.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge]
    #25001326 - 02/17/18 01:20 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Well said Rahz

>The appearance of Trump's guilt is much more important than facts.

That sums up the whole thing, the whole media campaign, mueller, the investigation, everything. Facts mean little to the far left, we already know that. So the scandal sheets keep on, spewing innuendo and salacious inferences. The usual suspects eat it up and even normal people are drawn in by the implication something big is happening. Its the old concept of if there is a lot of smoke there must be some fire somewhere. The media has been generating smoke like mad, but all we end up with is another nothing burger.

What about all the people in the last administration who got caught committing fraud and other crimes? The media either ignored it or made a neutral type mention and let it drop forever. Obama is implicated in the russian uranium scandal that was pushed mightily by hillary who got huge sums from russian sources. But predictably the media has no interest in actual crimes by those people, yet goes into a frenzy over the daily drip of highly exaggerated drama whipped up over the slightest thing. Its all smoke and mirrors to deflect and bamboozle.

I even wonder if part of the get trump campaign is to create a distraction so that hill and 'bummer get a free pass on their wrong doing? I wish trump would just go ahead and fire sessions and get someone who will go after the real bad guys.





To be clear, you are calling the Russian conspiracy investigation to be farcical yet the uranium one deal to be a legitimate fraudulent conspiracy?


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Special counsel Indicts 13 Russian nationals, 3 Russian entities in '16 election interference [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #25001636 - 02/17/18 04:19 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
We gave away a large part of our uranium reserves, hill got a large payoff. This has been established.




I don't see how that is established any more than that Trump colluded with Russia. We let Russia purchase a stake in a canadian owned mining company, yes, there is no evidence to say we gave it away though. Hillary also received speaking fees and charity donations from members related to the transaction, but there's no evidence it was a quid pro quo. The last part is the only one in question, there's nothing illegal about selling our uranium reserves, although again there's no proof that even happened anyway.

Now to me that looks like a quid pro quo. However so does asking Russia to hack your opponents emails on live tv, hiring a campaign manager with known ties with the Russian government, a campaign manager that was also in debt to Russian banks, who also met with a Russian official and donald juniors son to discuss getting dirt on Hillary, while making prior claims that no one in the campaign had contacts with Russians, trump sold a property for over 2x it's value to a russian oligarch during the midst of the housing crash only for him to never use it and demolish it (a much bigger payoff than uranium one alone), and who is also personally suspected to be in debt to Russian banks because no US banks will lend to him due to bad credit and who suspiciously refuses to release his tax returns as every former US presidential candidate has done in the past, etc, etc.

Then after he won he fires comey for "the Russia thing," tries to fire Meuller, and refuses to enact nearly unanimously bipartisan supported sanctions on Russia for the election meddling attempts. Now do I think that makes him guilty? Yeah, probably, but just like Uranium One I don't know because the investigation is still on going and so far we just have a shit mountain of circumstantial evidence. 


Quote:


That hasn't even been investigated let alone to the extent the non existant trump-russia connection has been done. We are supposed to only look at that and not at obama and clinton's crimes.




The republican controlled house select comittee chaired by Trump's transition team member Devin Nunes, who also released the Memo to try and discredit the FBI, opened an investigation in October of last year. They have not released any updates on the progress since. Per your own logic I guess that means "no evidence of collusion" right?

Quote:


BJ
>Nixon said this investigation has been going on for a year with no smoking gun and it's time to end it now. So......

got a link to that alleged quote?




https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/01/30/nixon-watergate-special-prosecutor-state-of-the-union-1974.cnn/video/playlists/trump--nixon-comparisons/


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