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 Apples in Mono
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 Re: Solipsism and reality  [Re: sudly]
#25014893 - 02/22/18 11:36 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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As am i, but pretty sure isn't certain
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sudly
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The probability that I don't have a heart isn't something I'd make a bet on.
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Apples in Mono
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Re: Solipsism and reality [Re: sudly]
#25014902 - 02/22/18 11:43 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Good. You'd be retarded to do so. But that's entirely beside the point. It's still a probabilistic confidence, never arriving at 100%. Which means that you don't get certainty. Which means that you never technically prove anything to yourself. And on that very slim chance that you're incorrect about your nervous system, or anything else- or perhaps even everything else, you have no way of verifying it
Edited by Apples in Mono (02/22/18 11:51 PM)
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sudly
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What even is your stance? I think solipsism is borderline schizophrenic and narcissistic, the idea that I'm the only person in the world that matters and that my thoughts effect the physical world in and of their own.
I say I like nature. I say I'm real, I say I exist. I say I experience, I say I feel. I say I am certain I have a heart.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Apples in Mono
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Re: Solipsism and reality [Re: sudly] 1
#25014928 - 02/23/18 12:06 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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My stance is that there is a gigantic difference between a metaphysical solipsist(an individual who actually believes that the external world doesn't exist objectively), and a methodological/epistemological solipsist(an individual who recognizes that they have no way of actually verifying an objective external world outside of their experience). It's a huge distinction that you and many others don't seem to grasp, and it seems to cause many of you to become offended, as if i'm telling you that i don't recognize your existence, or that i'm minimizing your existence, or that i lack empathy. None of this is even remotely true. I'm just trying to be philosophically consistent
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sudly
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There is no difference, just ignorance, which means not knowing.
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Apples in Mono
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Re: Solipsism and reality [Re: sudly]
#25014936 - 02/23/18 12:17 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have never, to my knowledge, even met a metaphysical solipsist. I suspect you haven't either
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sudly
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I have met some freaky people, one lad brought a snake to the ping pong table, another mentioned how he wanted to punch people who thought the mind was physical.
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Apples in Mono
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Re: Solipsism and reality [Re: sudly]
#25014947 - 02/23/18 12:25 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, i've met some real nuts too, who very well may have believed they were a brain in a vat, but i'm talking certifiable nut jobs
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sudly
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I believe I am a mind that is greater than the sum of its parts.
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Apples in Mono
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Re: Solipsism and reality [Re: sudly] 1
#25014960 - 02/23/18 12:35 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well it really does seem that way. That's what David Chalmers calls the "hard problem" of consciousness; how a series of physical processes could possibly translate to subjective experience- how to draw a logical line from the physical to the mental. Dan Dennett disagrees that the hard problem even exists. He thinks it's just a series of small problems, and that the hard problem is a bit of an illusion
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sudly
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I can feel my own fears and excitement.
Quote:
Property dualism is quite different – it states that the mind is fully a property of matter, but that it cannot be reduced to the the simple processes of the brain. There is some non-reducible aspect of consciousness that requires a separate (but physical) explanation other than neurons firing and exchanging neurotransmitters. It is astounding that Egnor would use the arguments of a property dualist to support his cartesian dualism – without ever making the distinction clear. Egnor uses a tactic well-known to his creationist buddies – mine for quotes that can be made to seem as if they support your position, when they don’t.
As we can see, Dr. Egnor is profoundly confused on multiple levels. He has confused different types of dualism, he has misrepresented Chalmers’ arguments and position, he has mischaracterized my position in multiple ways, he has confused philosophy and science, and he has confused different scientific questions – most notably the question of “does” the brain cause consciousness with the question of “how” the brain causes consciousness.
https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/michael-egnor-cartesian-dualism-david-chalmers-and-the-hard-nonproblem/
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 Psychaesthetics
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Re: Solipsism and reality [Re: sudly]
#25015103 - 02/23/18 03:06 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Once you get the feeling or insight that you are the universe, you shouldn't become an inflated solipsist, although this often happens.
I think it SHOULD abolish all separation, and that the distance/difference between 1 observer and another is incalculable.
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sudly
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Quote:
You are a part of the universe.
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Psychaesthetics
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Re: Solipsism and reality [Re: sudly]
#25015142 - 02/23/18 03:47 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
You are a part of the universe.
Saying you are only part of the universe implies that whatever part you don't make up, is not you. I think this is false and that we should abandon absolute thought.
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sudly
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It seems pretty evident we consist of stardust, don't think I'd go so far as to say you make up the moon.. because I think that's absolute crap.
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Psychaesthetics
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Re: Solipsism and reality [Re: sudly]
#25015154 - 02/23/18 04:07 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
It seems pretty evident we consist of stardust, don't think I'd go so far as to say you make up the moon.. because I think that's absolute crap.
Well then I have to ask what is meant with "you". Does it not include one's sensory awareness?
The problem arises when looking from an egocentric point of view, as if one says "I am the universe and you are therefore me, but I am not you."
This is not what's meant.
When you abandon all absolute thought/measure, it won't get to your head when you feel/see that You are the entire universe. It would be humbling actually.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Solipsism and reality [Re: sudly]
#25015548 - 02/23/18 09:39 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
It seems pretty evident we consist of stardust, don't think I'd go so far as to say you make up the moon.. because I think that's absolute crap.
sure, don't address anything. just put your blinders on and feign ignorance.
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Apples in Mono
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I gotta give it to sudly on this one. To say that there is no meaningful distinction that can be drawn between different items in the universe is a bunch of psuedoprofound, new age, drivel. Or a bunch of pseudoprofound, old-school, eastern drivel. Either way It's essentially meaningless
Edited by Apples in Mono (02/23/18 09:51 AM)
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Psychaesthetics
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Quote:
Apples in Mono said:
I gotta give it to sudly on this one. To say that there is no meaningful distinction that can be drawn between different items in the universe is a bunch of psuedoprofound, new age, drivel. Or a bunch of pseudoprofound, old-school, eastern drivel. Either way It's essentially meaningless
It actually goes in theory when you study sound or air pressure. You come to realize that these things are omnipresent.
You must be confused by thinking that such a thing as "empty" space exists, but there has to be a medium to define these differences, you can't just say: "Here's something, and there's nothing."
This is proven to be false by science. There are media everywhere.
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As below, so above
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