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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24976699 - 02/08/18 03:09 PM (6 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I completely agree that the current penal system needs to be scrapped.I also understand your point about the USA critiques....like our shit doesn't stink, however, it is not near as putrid as NKs.



I'm not arguing we have it worse than North Korea overall.  I just thought it was fun to post their critique of the US.

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
-Every swinging dick's house has to have a speaker in it for NK propoganda.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mind-blowing-facts-about-north-korea-2014-7



Here's a few interesting "mind blowing facts" from you link:

  - North Korea has a 100% literacy rate.  (Source CIA)
  - North Korea scored a goal against Brazil in the 2010 World Cup.
  - North Korea has the fourth-largest standing army in the world.

Relax - I'm not saying they're better than the US.  :smirk:


--------------------
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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24976707 - 02/08/18 03:13 PM (6 years, 8 days ago)

No, I didn't get that vibe from you, my friend. I always enjoy our discussions and find it interesting that I agree with some things from your Green Party.


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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24976711 - 02/08/18 03:15 PM (6 years, 8 days ago)

:wink:  :thumbup:  :toast:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24976916 - 02/08/18 05:08 PM (6 years, 8 days ago)

I don't see how.  Where in there does it say that not having billionaires in office is a human right?  I really tried to find it in there.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Enlil]
    #24977036 - 02/08/18 05:56 PM (6 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
How are these human rights violations?  You really believe that having billionaires in office is a human rights violation?



Yes.  And we're seeing how having billionaires in office threatens articles 22, 23, 24, 25, and 26 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.



I don't see how.  Where in there does it say that not having billionaires in office is a human right?  I really tried to find it in there.



It doesn't say that "not having billionaires in office is a human right".  :picard:
But you seriously don't see how billionaires are threatenig articles 22, 23, 24, 25, and 26 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights???

We're already in violation of article 25, as 30+ million Americans can't afford health insurance.  And with billionaires in office, that number is expected to grow by over 10 million more.  They are now threatening other human rights I listed as well.  Would you like examples, or are you just playing another semantics game?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24977600 - 02/08/18 10:19 PM (6 years, 8 days ago)

Are you saying that non-billionaires wouldn't do the same thing? 

And I don't agree that medical care is a human right.  That makes literally no sense.  First, humans predate medical care.  Why would we suddenly have a right to it after it was invented?  Why not make a cell phone a human right while we're at it.  In addition, medical care is provided by someone else.  If getting medical care is a human right, then that means someone else has to provide that care.  What about that person's right to do/not do what he/she wants?  How do you balance those rights?  What about the right to property?  How do you balance one person's right to property vs paying for another person's right to medical care? 

I get the idea that people like to talk about big ideals and call them human rights, but that doesn't make it so.

Also, to your point that NK is ahead of us on all of those, Kim Jong In is a billionaire.  Any idea how many billionaires there are in NK?  Any idea how many of them aren't in charge of the country?  You're just talking nonsense with that comparison.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Enlil]
    #24977689 - 02/08/18 11:29 PM (6 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Are you saying that non-billionaires wouldn't do the same thing?



Billionaires are less likely to want things like social security, unemployment benefits, minimum paid vacation, medical care, social services, and free education for all, because they have to pay their employees or taxes for others to enjoy those.

Quote:

Enlil said:
And I don't agree that medical care is a human right.  That makes literally no sense.  First, humans predate medical care.  Why would we suddenly have a right to it after it was invented?  Why not make a cell phone a human right while we're at it.  In addition, medical care is provided by someone else.  If getting medical care is a human right, then that means someone else has to provide that care.  What about that person's right to do/not do what he/she wants?  How do you balance those rights?  What about the right to property?  How do you balance one person's right to property vs paying for another person's right to medical care? 

I get the idea that people like to talk about big ideals and call them human rights, but that doesn't make it so.



I don't care what YOU believe human rights SHOULD be.  The world came up with a Universal Declaration of Human Rights, whether YOU like with it or not.  I sure do.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Also, to your point that NK is ahead of us on all of those, Kim Jong In is a billionaire.  Any idea how many billionaires there are in NK?  Any idea how many of them aren't in charge of the country?  You're just talking nonsense with that comparison.



I don't know, you tell me.  My guess is there is just one billionaire in North Korea.  Therefore, "the most important posts of the administration" are NOT "FILLED WITH BILLIONAIRES".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24978037 - 02/09/18 06:26 AM (6 years, 7 days ago)

My guess is one billionaire, too, which means that every billionaire runs the country and the most important post is filled with a billionaire.

I guess the discussion has become moot, though, since we don't even agree on what human rights are. :shrug:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24978305 - 02/09/18 09:53 AM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I guess the discussion has become moot, though, since we don't even agree on what human rights are. :shrug:



It's been defined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24978397 - 02/09/18 10:42 AM (6 years, 7 days ago)

I know some people wrote that.  I said we don't agree...as in you and I.  Unless we agree on what constitutes a human right and what doesn't, there's no real way for us to discuss them.


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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24978592 - 02/09/18 12:21 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

xzylocybin said:
Good old NK where taking a poster off the wall will get you years of torture followed by a slow painful death



Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's probably the grossest misrepresentation of what happened I've ever seen.




I'm pretty sure that is actually exactly what happened.


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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: xzylocybin]
    #24978599 - 02/09/18 12:24 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

NK where you are willing to sprint passed men with machine guns while getting shot multiple times for the hope of freedom even though you have one of the best proffesions in the country.


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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: xzylocybin]
    #24978602 - 02/09/18 12:26 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Nk where you are on average several inches shorter and twenty pounds below weight of people living ten miles away from you because all you eat is moldy rice and meth.


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: xzylocybin]
    #24978637 - 02/09/18 12:43 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

North Korea, where if you piss off the leader you have to stand and let a mortar shell blow you apart.


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: xzylocybin]
    #24978641 - 02/09/18 12:44 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

xzylocybin said:
NK where you are willing to sprint passed men with machine guns while getting shot multiple times for the hope of freedom even though you have one of the best proffesions in the country.





And in NK where you are apart of people who actually get fed yet your body is riddled with parasites.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: xzylocybin]
    #24979453 - 02/09/18 06:49 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

xzylocybin said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

xzylocybin said:
Good old NK where taking a poster off the wall will get you years of torture followed by a slow painful death



That's probably the grossest misrepresentation of what happened I've ever seen.



I'm pretty sure that is actually exactly what happened.



First of all, he wasn't found guilty of "taking a poster off the wall", he was found guilty of stealing it from a 'staff only' location of a Pyongyang hotel.

Second, there was no evidence of torture; it is likely he overdosed on sleeping pills.

When he was released to the US, a full battery of tests were taken which found "no evidence of an acute or healing fracture" and found his "skin in good condition and he was well nourished”.  The Hamilton County Coroner later confirmed that Warmbier’s body had no evident signs of torture.


As an interesting side note, Otto said his family was “suffering from very severe financial difficulties” and his church deaconess offered to buy him a car if he stole the poster, and said she would give his family $200,000 if he was detained and didn't return.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Herbologist]
    #24979464 - 02/09/18 06:53 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

xzylocybin said:
Nk where... all you eat is moldy rice and meth.



Quote:

Herbologist said:
North Korea, where if you piss off the leader you have to stand and let a mortar shell blow you apart.



Source?


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Enlil]
    #24979470 - 02/09/18 06:55 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
I guess the discussion has become moot, though, since we don't even agree on what human rights are. :shrug:



It's been defined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.



I know some people wrote that.  I said we don't agree...as in you and I.  Unless we agree on what constitutes a human right and what doesn't, there's no real way for us to discuss them.



That's like saying "unless we agree what the law is, I'm not guilty of a crime".  It doesn't matter what you (or I) think.  Human Rights has been defined.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24979881 - 02/09/18 11:33 PM (6 years, 7 days ago)

People have tried to define human rights before.  Why does the U.N.'s opinion hold more weight?


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Re: North Korea - a case for war based on human rights violations? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24980050 - 02/10/18 01:21 AM (6 years, 7 days ago)

My point exactly.  The UN is basically a convention.  They don't define my reality or my rights.

The comparison to the law is silly.  States have the power to make law.  The UN has zero power to do so.


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