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Invisiblerelic
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: qman] * 2
    #25265670 - 06/13/18 01:08 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

without having medical qualifications, diagnosing people that you don't know, don't directly interact with, and perhaps have heard one short interview with as mentally challenged is a pretty silly thing to do.

it's one thing if we have a very public body of work over a long lifetime and think of someone as a narcissist or w/e, but to diagnose all people in a group as nut jobs and mentally challenged is just over the top stereotyping, hyperbolic rhetoric and doesn't help your argument.

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Offlineqman
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25265777 - 06/13/18 02:05 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Why do I need a youtube video to validate the merits of antifascism?

Then lectures on the real world. :lol:


Yeah I bet Sargon of Akkad and Ben Shapiro are much more in tune with the real world than Antifa or Redneck Revolt or BLM...



In reality it just boils down to people protesting means there's something wrong, and that makes you uncomfortable (the idea that something is wrong). Thats that white guilt you keep lecturing everyone else on.




I have no issue with people protesting what they perceive may be a form of injustice taking place.

"that make you uncomfortable"

Not at all, just don't physically assault somebody that disagrees with what you're protesting.

"That's that white guilt"

No, not seeing the merits behind the Antifa movement hardly makes me some victim of "white guilt".

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Offlineqman
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: relic] * 1
    #25265796 - 06/13/18 02:12 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

relic said:
without having medical qualifications, diagnosing people that you don't know, don't directly interact with, and perhaps have heard one short interview with as mentally challenged is a pretty silly thing to do.

it's one thing if we have a very public body of work over a long lifetime and think of someone as a narcissist or w/e, but to diagnose all people in a group as nut jobs and mentally challenged is just over the top stereotyping, hyperbolic rhetoric and doesn't help your argument.




From what I have seen, those "protesters" are very emotionally charged young adults that feel like they have no control of their lives, therefore they lash out at others in pure frustration.

The "mentally challenged" comment was in response to their obvious inability to control their emotions, and that's also a sign of immaturity.

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Invisiblerelic
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: qman]
    #25265841 - 06/13/18 02:27 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

so you're saying you think they're all pretty typical kids.

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: qman] * 1
    #25265937 - 06/13/18 03:03 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
I have yet to ever hear an interview with any member of that group (Antifa) that wasn't incoherent.



Ever stop to think maybe its you?




I have asked on multiple occasions to give my your favorite "anti-fascist" interview/speech or whatever you have, I never got even one response. So I ask again, post something and I will listen or read whatever you suggest.



It may surprise you to hear that myself, and many others, don't need some youtube pundit to formulate our opinions.

Have you just been ignoring the arguments of the vehemently antifascist members here? Or are you suggesting that our posts have merely been a series of incoherent words?

I know for a fact that coherent arguments in support of militant antifascism have been made on this forum. I'm not going to go dredging through old posts to find them for you again, because I'm on the road with limited battery and wifi; plus I know it won't change your mind - but here, feel free to browse. If, out of those 100+ posts, nothing strikes you as coherent - simply ask for clarification and I will gladly provide it next time I'm sitting down at a library.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #25266049 - 06/13/18 03:43 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

And on a side note: Tipote just did exactly as you asked; suggested Mark Bray and his book "Antifa: the Antifascist Handbook".

How did you, an intellectual, respond? "He's very unimpressive.

:slowclap:


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: MagicMush123] * 3
    #25266127 - 06/13/18 04:24 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:




Also also: shitty photoshop from /pol/




Kinda like this one:


Which is even funnier because the original photo is of a Greek anarchist - and already fit your narrative of 'violent leftist' - but the target audience is so dense that it needs to be clearly labeled. Kinda like Ben Garrison political cartoons  :lol:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 3
    #25266363 - 06/13/18 06:02 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

antifa is for losers


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #25266520 - 06/13/18 07:12 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:




Also also: shitty photoshop from /pol/




Kinda like this one:


Which is even funnier because the original photo is of a Greek anarchist - and already fit your narrative of 'violent leftist' - but the target audience is so dense that it needs to be clearly labeled. Kinda like Ben Garrison political cartoons  :lol:



You would claim its photoshopped.  Is the fact that antifa is a loser convention,  offend you? Did all antifa members get heavily bullied in high school and this is their way of getting back? Funny how antifa is a collection of communists, anarchists, gays, crossdressers, feminist losers, who are such losers in society that they feel the need to attack innocent civilians, businesses and "fascists ". Keep fighting the good fight :leocheers:, in 10 years you guys will be at your barn having accomplished nothing and you'll realize how much of a failure your cause/ movement was

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #25266594 - 06/13/18 07:53 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Sorta like the tea party.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #25266859 - 06/13/18 10:28 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Except antifa isnt an astroturfed "political movement" bankrolled by billionaire businessmen


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: MagicMush123] * 2
    #25267238 - 06/14/18 06:03 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
You would claim its photoshopped.



Claim? Buddy, I submitted proof in the form of the original photo. And, to be clear, I didn't do this because I desire to distance antifascism from the individual depicted - I did it to illustrate the gullibility and lack of critical thinking sharing a poorly faked photo displays. Two traits often found within the 'anti-antifa' ranks - or, as I prefer to term them: bootlickers.


Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Funny how antifa is a collection of communists, anarchists, gays, crossdressers, feminist...



You say all these things as if that were a bad thing...


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25267246 - 06/14/18 06:13 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I posted the original photo :kidreally: keep photoshopping and defending 'debunked ' antifa photos/ videos :goodluckwiththat:

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #25267265 - 06/14/18 06:29 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Also qman, a gift for you:

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Remember, antifascist action (antifa) is a decentralized entity centred around militant resistance to fascism. You could possibly understand 'antifa' to serve the function of an early #hashtag; using a collective label to describe autonomous groups made cohesion and solidarity simpler in an era before social media. But it is wrong to understand antifa as a cohesive entity operating off of a single playbook.

It is fair to criticize individual actions claimed by antifascists, but fairly ridiculous to oppose the premise of antifascism in principle; and that's what you're doing when you attempt to blanket criticize antifa, because the only thing that truly unites antifascist activists everywhere is our opposition to fascism. For example, do you feel antifascists fighting against ISIS in Rojava are subject to these criticisms of yours?

Yes, violence plays its character throughout these stories of antifascist resistance. Physical confrontation is not only a common part of antifa organizing, but is central to its praxis. The antifa project itself is founded on a “no platform” principle, which means halting fascist organizing, speech, and public expression through any available means. This tactic is not meant just to create a counter-narrative, but to sever fascist access to any form of speech and to keep militancy as a central tenet. This strategy of organizing has been successful through the early days of the National Front, into the veneer of respectability with the British National Party (BNP), and later into groups like Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West (PEGIDA), the English Defense League (EDL), and the UK Independence Party (UKIP). These nationalist groups were founded through connections between the mainstream political sphere on the one hand, and violent racist street gangs on the other; and antifascist groups, using the "no platform" principal, have had documented success in destroying/preventing these connections.

Antifascist direct action movements like AFA and Red Action have not been fully replicated in the US or Canada. This is not to say, however, that anti-racist organizing has not been successful there; SHARP and RASH toeing up to neo-Nazi skinhead culture in the 90's is a good example, but this was mostly contained within a subculture and did not feature the widespread attention current antifascist action in the USA does. In the US, the racial street terrorists primarily take the forms of various incarnations of the Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazi skinheads. There is a history of crossover into political movements, notably with organizations like the Council of Conservative Citizens’ connections to the KKK and the American Freedom Party with Golden State Skinheads in California. Those connections are real, but the political organizations they prop up have little to no actual crossover into the general political sphere. This is a large difference from Europe where fascist parties hold representative positions; and probably a large reason behind the noticeable difference between antifascist action taking place in N. America and the rest of the world.

What you are seeing happening in American politics today, though - and this is well documented - is that openly fascist elements are seeing widespread acceptance among the less extreme members of the right to a degree not seen before. It has reached the point to where the far-rights candidate of choice now holds power in the USA; and what you are seeing is the antifascist resistance rise in response. Someone who is comfortable marching with open neo-Nazis is not convinced that antifascists are the real fascists when they get punched in the face later that day; if you are comfortable marching with neo-Nazis, you have already made up your mind.

Remember, statistically it is elements of the far-right who are currently perpetrating the greatest violence (up to and including killings). If the violent actions of antifa (mostly limited to physical assault and harassment) is enough for you to consider a violent reaction towards antifascists as being appropriate, what kind of response does the greater violence of the far-right endorse?

I think it is fair to criticize individuals actions, so that we can better improve our effectiveness. This is especially true when you consider that a large number of people now repping antifa have been only very recently turned on to the concept; no point being arrested for sloppy actions. That being said, you must also remember that the media slant towards antifascist and anarchist organizing is a very heavy one. If your main source of information on an action is through news reports and youtube videos, perhaps it is better to leave the criticism for those with direct experience.

If you want to have a better grasp of what actually constitutes antifascist action, I recommend the documentary "Antifa: Chasseurs de Skins"; a 2008 French documentary on how groups of youth in 1980's Paris generated a backlash against the neo-Nazi skinhead subculture, and by doing so earned themselves the nickname Chasseurs de Skins or ‘Skinhead Hunters’.



Also, antifascists make better music than fascists:






And, as this post was originally made nearly a year ago, I have a short update. The goal of keeping violent street fascists separate from the mainstream political sphere can be seen to have had success in North America over the last year. This is probably best seen in Richard Spencer and his National Policy Institute going from holding their annual conference in the esteemed Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, D.C. in 2016 to getting kicked out of an unheated barn an hour outside of D.C. only one year later. No platforming works (the man himself even admitted as much: "Antifa is winning to the extent that they're willing to go further than anyone else,").

And on a final note, another quality documentary on antifascism was released since I made the original post:




There. Coherent enough for you?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25267468 - 06/14/18 09:26 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
I posted the original photo :kidreally: keep photoshopping and defending 'debunked ' antifa photos/ videos :goodluckwiththat:




You're doing great, sweetie.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #25268827 - 06/14/18 09:11 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
I posted the original photo :kidreally: keep photoshopping and defending 'debunked ' antifa photos/ videos :goodluckwiththat:



Looking at the wrinkles in the shirt, I'm going with yours being the photo-shopped picture.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25269365 - 06/15/18 06:15 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly.  It would take a photoshop master to add those wrinkles in like that.  MagicMush has needs to just face the reality that he has been duped.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #25269449 - 06/15/18 07:38 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Far easier to dupe someone than convince someone they've been duped.


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OfflineHoodafucisdat
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25269456 - 06/15/18 07:44 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Funny shit racism, I'm not playing into that bullshit, can't fight nature. Classism is more realistic in this society. Make money or fuck you that's where it's at. Again with the nazi shit lol. They failed, just because a white man has racist tendicies don't label nazi, think nasa when thinking nazi same dudes


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OfflineTipote
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Re: This is what antifascism looks like. [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #25272491 - 06/16/18 03:23 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
And on a side note: Tipote just did exactly as you asked; suggested Mark Bray and his book "Antifa: the Antifascist Handbook".

How did you, an intellectual, respond? "He's very unimpressive.

:slowclap:




exactly!

I didn't take much from the youtube clip qman posted but his book is very good. I think it would sway some of the people here because on reading the post-war manifestations of antifascism, you can see why they keep coming up - and for good reason.

but not all of the posters here will be convinced (you know who you are cough cough Bubbles, Qman, viktor etc) because often they were Jewish exservicemen and other exservicemen who swelled the ranks of the antifascists. (oooooooooooo jewish conspiracy)

I'm thinking of - the 43 group
Quote:

The 43 Group was an English anti-fascist group set up by Jewish ex-servicemen after World War II. They did this when, upon returning to London, they encountered British fascist organisations such as Jeffrey Hamm's British League of Ex-Servicemen and later Oswald Mosley's new fascist party, the Union Movement. The activities of these fascist groups included antisemitic speeches in public places, and from the rank-and-file fascists, violent attacks on London Jews and Jewish property.[1] Group members broke up far-right meetings, infiltrated fascist groups, and attacked the fascists in street fighting.[2]




Also, in the spirit of this thread I wanted to point out some other instances of antifascism..

Air Force Reserve Kicks Out Recruit After Racist Video Surfaces

Even making fascists and racists famous for their activities is antifascism as it takes away the deniability of the ignorant. When these things go unchecked they grow and become normalised. Increasingly, I've been seeing stories of black people (even kids) getting lynched by white people.. but I imagine some posters here don't see those stories because of their anti-Islam tunnel vision.

Here is another example of antifascist organisations infiltrating neonazi organisations to uncover plots to kill UK MPs..
Jack Renshaw admits planning to murder MP Rosie Cooper

Quote:

An alleged member of a banned neo Nazi group has admitted planning to murder a Labour MP in an act of what he termed "white jihad", a jury has heard.

Jack Renshaw, 23, pleaded guilty at the Old Bailey to preparing an act of terrorism by buying a machete to kill West Lancashire MP Rosie Cooper.

He also admitted making a threat to kill police officer Victoria Henderson.

Renshaw, of Skelmersdale, Lancashire, is one of six men on trial who deny being in the group National Action.




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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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