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Ullr
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/17
Posts: 93
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Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage
#24956312 - 01/31/18 05:13 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Since I've got no answers in my cultivation log, I think this will require a specific post. I'm having a serious underdeveloped mushroom problem.
First timer here, growing some Z strain MS shoeboxes. Rye spawned to CVG after a dunk at a 1:1 ratio. These are being fruited in a heated closet (in a rack over an oil heater), 69 to 73 F temperature, 6500K LED light, sub brought to what I'd say is mid field capacity. The surface stays consistently glistening with moisture, though it tends to mat down as it flushes. No noticeable shrinking of the sub prior to first flush.
The first shoebox I spawned already showed the problem, with early opening caps and a first flush yield of just 12 grams dry from a quart of spawn.

Right now the second and third shoeboxes are showing it at an even earlier stage. And nothing like a proper veil is developing, they just start opening while still tiny pins:

Yesterday's log entry:
Quote:
Ullr said: Now this leaves me baffled. Two of the shoeboxes are pinning. One spawned the 14th January and the other the 18th. Both have been kept in the same closet, same temperature, same water content, same spawn ratio, same fruiting conditions (reversed lid if I'm not around, since pinning open air and mist as the beads dry if I'm around to take care of it). No signs of contamination that I'm aware of, no metabolites, no bruising, no outreaching mycelium and smells good.
Both have some side pins, not many, there's not really a gap big enough for them to grow. But the later one has hundreds of top pins and primordia (including a few blobs/mutants), while the earlier one has 15 or so pins, and a big one that just went from pin to opening the cap with no veil developing.
As for the differences, the earlier one has almost no top layer (forgot to set aside some CVG before mixing the spawn), I leveled the sub without packing it down, as usually advised.
The later one has a thin top layer and was lightly packed down.
Earlier shoebox with its single shroom:

Later shoebox. Nevermind the crater. Someone accidentally pushed me while taking photos and I shoved my phone into the sub 

Please let me know if you can think about a reason for this. Am I making some serious mistake that may explain this? Or did I just get some crappy genetics?
Thank you
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: Ullr] 1
#24956318 - 01/31/18 05:18 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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I have the same problem sometimes. Its either genetic or too much moisture on the substrate from what ive been told. But it seems to happen to me more after a dunk, so im leaning more toward too much water.
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GalliumPE
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Registered: 10/11/17
Posts: 330
Loc: The Virgo Supercluster
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: Ullr] 1
#24956326 - 01/31/18 05:31 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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I had this exact same thing happen with a batch of PE. I just decided to sum it up to genetics. I don't really know what else it could have been as everything else was perfect.
-------------------- I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious - Albert Einstein
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Ullr
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/17
Posts: 93
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: GalliumPE]
#24956344 - 01/31/18 06:01 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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I hope it's not genetics, because it's happening to all mushrooms, sooner or later but always prematurely. And my spore syringe was crap. Only 15% or so of inoculated plates had any growth. I don't have anything else to grow and compare.
Humidity looks ok to me, but I'm a noob and maybe completely wrong.
I've also considered the possibility of some kind of illness. Maybe Verticillium or La France virus. Some shrooms show this (not my pic):
Edited by Ullr (01/31/18 06:02 AM)
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: Ullr]
#24956355 - 01/31/18 06:12 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Brown streaks are high humidity. Not bad tho. Give it more fae. I know its in a sgfc, but u can open the lid for a rew hours a day. Fae wont hurt anything, just mist to keep the cakes surface moisture right.
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Ullr
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/17
Posts: 93
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: nube424]
#24956359 - 01/31/18 06:17 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
nube424 said: Brown streaks are high humidity. Not bad tho. Give it more fae. I know its in a sgfc, but u can open the lid for a rew hours a day. Fae wont hurt anything, just mist to keep the cakes surface moisture right.
That's (as stated) not my pic, just an example shown online, since I'm not there to take a pic right now. I'm bulk fruiting in unmodified shoeboxes, reversed lids during the night and when I'm out, and open air whenever at home. It has all the FAE I can give it. I could cut on the misting though.
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: Ullr]
#24956398 - 01/31/18 06:47 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Yea possibly misting too much then. Twice a day is all u need
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Leftfield420
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Registered: 02/26/16
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: nube424] 1
#24956497 - 01/31/18 08:25 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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If moisture content was right when spawned, you shouldn't need to mist much if any until after the 1st flush...I never mist until 1st flush is completely finished...misting will help pinset as long as you don't over do it...I misted my first mono and ended up with splotches on my caps from mist sitting on them too long without evaporating(I misted too much)
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smegzilla69
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Registered: 09/02/12
Posts: 1,129
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: Leftfield420]
#24956526 - 01/31/18 08:41 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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Looks like lack of FAE. Drill some holes alon the base of the sub.
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EVERYTHING I SAY IS A LIE!!! N ALL MY PICS R STOLEN WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!!watch it pay for it self in # of high yield flushes! SO DOPE "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. " Albert.
Edited by smegzilla69 (01/31/18 08:42 AM)
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mushboy
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Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,392
Loc: where?
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: smegzilla69] 1
#24956529 - 01/31/18 08:46 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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the stripes and short/uber thin fruits is from your water content being to high in your sub.
you could dry out the sub by leaving the FC lid off for awhile but then you risk drying out if you dont watch it carefully. i bet if you let that flush grow, DO NOT dunk! and the second flush will produce better fruits. because the sub isnt soaked.
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Ullr
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/17
Posts: 93
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: mushboy]
#24956574 - 01/31/18 09:28 AM (6 years, 17 days ago) |
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The shoebox man finally appears! Thank you! I've removed the lids as soon as I got home. Let's see if I don't dry it out.
That's probably the reason I didn't ever get a second flush from the first one... I misted far less, and after the dunk it didn't recover and was eventually overtaken by mold. I thought it was too dry, at least on the surface.
I'll let it be this time and hope for a decent second flush, and just bring the sub to the dryer side of field capacity next time.
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Ullr
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/17
Posts: 93
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Re: Help me troubleshoot my bulk grow - caps opening at pin stage [Re: Ullr]
#24959097 - 02/01/18 08:28 AM (6 years, 16 days ago) |
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So I've let it open air with no misting. It looks like my sub is too wet, yet the air is really dry... so now I have cracked shrooms in shoeebox 1, despite the coir still looking dark and moist, sub still heavy, and some beads still present in the surface.

I guess a bigger yield of ugly cracked shrooms is better than some tiny but well-formed pins. Shoebox 2 is looking better IMO. No more caps have opened.

But I'm still puzzled by the fact that while shoebox 2 a pretty thick pinset (with some interesting pale genetics) and one single side pin...

...shoebox 2 is just popping some isolated pins here and there as it pleases, and now growing a couple of side pin clusters...

...both being in the same environment. Why.
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