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beachbum2
Registered: 10/21/15
Posts: 137
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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semilanceata madness
#24932273 - 01/21/18 07:58 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok im going nuts. I've been looking for the past hour for a semilanceata grow method for outdoor. If anybody haves the magic link with a method on how to grow these that would be great.
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leschampignons
Biochemistry + Mycology
Registered: 08/30/13
Posts: 1,584
Loc: NY/NJ/ME
Last seen: 16 days, 23 hours
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Re: semilanceata madness [Re: beachbum2] 1
#24932440 - 01/21/18 09:02 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know that this species has ever been cultivated outdoors. Even under very specific indoor conditions I think it's only been cultivated once or twice if that.
outdoors it grows in manured pastures, but not directly from manure - there is not an easy way to simulate such an outdoor environment that I am aware of other than actually making the real thing.
Edit: Here is Workman's indoor grow
Edited by leschampignons (01/21/18 09:07 PM)
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Eddy A
Diamond geeza
Registered: 11/18/17
Posts: 29
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Leschampignons is correct, I'm afraid its near impossible to grow Liberty caps indoors, theres just too many different variables required. this mushy need the wisdom of the earth and mother nature!
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 2 hours, 27 minutes
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Re: semilanceata madness [Re: beachbum2] 2
#24936173 - 01/23/18 12:44 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've had success with sterile horse manure but it takes forever to colonize. For small scale experiments I sterilized quart jars of damp horse manure (yeah, it stinks). Then inoculated directly with an agar wedge of semilanceata mycelium (grains attract rodents and birds outdoors). Leap off can take a month or more but eventually the mycelium adapts and colonizes at a tolerable yet still fairly slow rate. It may take 3 months to fully colonize at room temperature. Once fully colonized, just place the substrate outside in a suitable environment (grassy, semi shaded areas seem to work well) and wait.
Since it takes so long to colonize, absolutely sterile conditions are required. Direct spore inoculation is unlikely to work.
Obviously, horse manure isn't the ideal substrate, judging by how long it resists growing on it, but once colonized, it produces heavily.
Good luck!
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower
Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,717
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: semilanceata madness [Re: Workman]
#24938765 - 01/24/18 01:21 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey Workman, you say it smells, and Semilanceata enjoys the pastures that have manure in the soil, rather than pure manure.
Anyway, when you say it smells, does that mean it wasn't weathered out to the point of smelling like plain dirt?
Do you think having it weathered out to the point where it doesn't smell any more than dirt would be beneficial to colonization times?
Do you think adding pasture soil could be beneficial?
Have you tried putting it to grains, if so, how did it take to it?
Could it be interesting to put it to grains, then use a base layer of those colonized grains to add sterile manure to in a jar, to speed up colonization?Afterwards the manure could be scooped off of the grains. Just an idea...
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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Workman
1999 Spore War Veteran
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,601
Loc: Oregon, USA
Last seen: 2 hours, 27 minutes
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It smells as you would expect aged manure in a pressure cooker is going to smell. Cook outdoors if possible. A 100% manure substrate isn't natural but it does work if you are patient. Semilanceata grows slowly compared to most other species, so speeding it up is probably limited by it's nature.
I have tried grass seed with manure and colonization is better but it attracts rodents and birds when put outside. Mixes of chopped grass and a bit of soil is worth trying.
Once the mycelium adapts to the sterile manure, it should work to transfer some manure adapted mycelium to freshly sterilized manure. But the grain idea is a good one.
-------------------- Research funded by the patrons of The Spore Works Exotic Spore Supply My Instagram Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower
Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,717
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: semilanceata madness [Re: Workman]
#24940306 - 01/25/18 04:16 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, honestly, I've cooked field-aged manure indoors many a time, and I honestly don't find it to be an offputting smell at all...
I was raised between farms and we had a few horses ourselves, so maybe that has something to do with it, but I just don't even see why anyone would find it necessary to cook it outside...
Sounds logical enough that the slow speed is just part of it's nature...
I like your grass idea to a certain extent as well, but there is one thing that pops in my head. Chlorophyll. I suspect a lot of the chlorophyll gets broken down by other life forms before the Semilanceata has a go at the grass in nature, so I think it might be better to not use any fresh grass, but maybe to use some pale/old hay or straw instead.
Now that you mention grass seeds, seems like that would be a very good substrate to start off from, considering grass is part of it's diet in nature as well... I'm really interested at this point to start it off at home. I'm in the natural habitat of the fungus, but have never found them in the wild here. I do know some people who go forage almost every year, but they just say they "have their spots" and "once you find em the first time, the next ones will be easier" and stuff like that.
But I have both a garden that's in need of some serious work including a new lawn, loads of pastures around where I could easily source both soil and field aged manure, and I'd be needing to sow grass anyway...
I'm just spitballing ideas here, but it just occurred to me it might even be possible to just have it colonize grass seed, then crumble that up 50/50 into regular grass seed, seed my lawn VERY heavily, with a soil that has manure mulched under it...
If any o y'all wanna trade me a print, I'm pretty sure we could find something in my collection worth trading it for...?
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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Astoriensis
Saprobe
Registered: 04/20/17
Posts: 73
Last seen: 11 days, 19 hours
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Cool read and best of luck LizWiz
I've got a culture going as well. Very slow too.
I've been experimenting with chicken scratch grains. After the cake get fully colonized I've so far tried crumbling it in a plastic lid container and covering with aged field grass and then taking that out in a field.
I've also tried spreading the colonized grain cakes out in fields. Like workman says though rodents are attracted. Who knows though maybe some of the mycelium gets spread into areas and survives?
I'm attempting all this in the Willamette Valley where they've been found.
I've lately switched to rye grains as spawn. It takes the mycelium some time to acclimate to the new food but slowly it consumes it up.
I'm thinking of spreading liquid mycelium around as well. This particular field looks perfect for fruits to occur. Grazed by deer, long tall hedge grasses which fall over.
The print my culture was started from came from Quebec, Canada. I've never yet come across any here in OR.
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Eddy A
Diamond geeza
Registered: 11/18/17
Posts: 29
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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This post is very interesting. It'll be awesome to say you grew your own libbys. The holy Grail to a mushroom cultivator!
I live in Yorkshire England Libby's grow everywhere up here on the North York Moors ! just go up to the Hills on a nice autumn day when the sun is shining and find some Rolling Hills where the sheep live! Perfect growing conditions! Best of luck!
Peace!
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower
Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,717
Loc: the parking lot
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Quote:
Astoriensis said: Cool read and best of luck LizWiz
I've got a culture going as well. Very slow too.
I've been experimenting with chicken scratch grains. After the cake get fully colonized I've so far tried crumbling it in a plastic lid container and covering with aged field grass and then taking that out in a field.
I've also tried spreading the colonized grain cakes out in fields. Like workman says though rodents are attracted. Who knows though maybe some of the mycelium gets spread into areas and survives?
I'm attempting all this in the Willamette Valley where they've been found.
I've lately switched to rye grains as spawn. It takes the mycelium some time to acclimate to the new food but slowly it consumes it up.
I'm thinking of spreading liquid mycelium around as well. This particular field looks perfect for fruits to occur. Grazed by deer, long tall hedge grasses which fall over.
The print my culture was started from came from Quebec, Canada. I've never yet come across any here in OR.
I don't have a culture nor spore print, I was merely contemplating a route to follow whenever I get my hands on a print. But good luck to you!!
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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bacillus
Very Serious Mushronomer
Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Central Europe
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In my opinion semilanceata is a shitty mushroom. Most of its attractivness comes from "hard to get" dynamic: difficult to find, impossible to cultivate. I'd say get mexicana instead, it's related. Props to Workman though for seeing it through.
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower
Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,717
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: semilanceata madness [Re: bacillus]
#24946347 - 01/27/18 03:23 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why? You say why you think people are attracted but not why you dislike it..
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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leschampignons
Biochemistry + Mycology
Registered: 08/30/13
Posts: 1,584
Loc: NY/NJ/ME
Last seen: 16 days, 23 hours
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Re: semilanceata madness [Re: bacillus]
#24946480 - 01/27/18 04:29 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's also exceedingly potent and IIRC has a slightly different chemical profile than most psilocybin mushrooms
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower
Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,717
Loc: the parking lot
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I've heard potency in Semilanceata can vary to a great degree.
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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bacillus
Very Serious Mushronomer
Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Central Europe
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I hate hard-to-get.
Yeah, I should add that the potency is attractive and, above all, where I live semi is the only active you can expect to find.
Unfortunately, the season is two months at best. One week shrooms are there and the next they aren't. They grow in one place and five meters away they don't. They are very small are brown when wet, so difficult to spot. As a result, the seeker is bent all the time, or on his knees.
I admit that hunting semilanceata can be great fun from time to time, if you know a spot. If you don't, you better really like cold damp grasslands and collecting ticks. It is madness indeed.
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower
Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,717
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: semilanceata madness [Re: bacillus]
#24947624 - 01/28/18 06:46 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's exactly why being able to grow it in your garden after adapting the soil to it would be so cool. Could be a small chance of succes, but then again, trying to find it isn't very different in terms of "luck". The amount of work put in before "spawn time" would be substantial, but the risk involved and area to explore would diminish substantially as well.
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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bacillus
Very Serious Mushronomer
Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Central Europe
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I agree wholeheartedly: better plant than seek. That's exactly why I say, get the mexican cousin: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21702956
Or outdoor Panaeolus, for that matter.
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower
Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,717
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: semilanceata madness [Re: bacillus]
#24947712 - 01/28/18 07:51 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can't deny that that thread looks way cool. But still. Having a species in my garden that's actually from here, or that grows here naturally at least, seems like even more the way to go, from a "natural living" point of view.
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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leschampignons
Biochemistry + Mycology
Registered: 08/30/13
Posts: 1,584
Loc: NY/NJ/ME
Last seen: 16 days, 23 hours
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Re: semilanceata madness [Re: bacillus]
#24947785 - 01/28/18 08:43 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bacillus said: That's exactly why I say, get the mexican cousin: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21702956
why not both
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bacillus
Very Serious Mushronomer
Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Central Europe
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That's the attitude!
Edited by bacillus (01/30/18 04:54 AM)
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