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hamloaf
Pork Block



Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,569
Loc: Oklahoma.
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For PE, and the centrifuge-less cultivator swabs are the only way.
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FishLevelMidnight
Aquaman



Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 2,328
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: hamloaf]
#24936254 - 01/23/18 01:12 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ham what do you use a centrifuge for?
Do you concentrate spores or something?
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hamloaf
Pork Block



Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,569
Loc: Oklahoma.
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To suspend the spores in water and make spore syringe solutions.
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FishLevelMidnight
Aquaman



Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 2,328
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: hamloaf]
#24936263 - 01/23/18 01:17 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I’m curious why you need a centrifuge for that unless you’re trying to load a certain amount of spore solution into each syringe?
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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@pacmanbreed, I will explain, both cellulose and starch are composed of glucose, in different arrangements. The arrangement is so different, the physical properties and enzymes required are utterly different.
Cellulose is relatively "inert" (not reactive), this includes enzymes, it's "slow" to decay. The more enzymes acting on cellulose, the faster it decays and releases.
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Paper pellets are made from wood and wood like products, most of the phenol's have been removed. Therefore the paper can be considered as relatively 100% cellulose, and "slow" to decay.
Without the phenol's even mold will take around 8 months to grow around 60mm. I am adding essential macro-micro nutrients but no carbon to the paper.
Spawn is used to produce both the mycelium, and starter carbon.
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You can leave wet newspaper out for a "very" long time.
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Here is the structure of gourmet growing, I will Cubensis adjustments where needed.
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1-10% grain-seed spawn > Carbon rich substrate + nutrients > Colonize + Fruit | Done in bags, due to aseptic requirements.
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Aseptic requirements explained:
The aseptic requirements is mostly due to adding starch, to a starch void media, such as wheat bran.
Lets use your experience with coir, imagine plain coir, and coir + grain flour. The addition of the flour increases the chance of contamination.
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Secondary effect of protein:
Protein is a great source of nitrogen, however it also contains carbon, and provides energy. Bacteria, yeast, mycelium, other can utilize protein as carbon and make new cells.
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Is there a way to avoid both situations?
No, not entirely, so far I have come to the conclusion that using paper as the base substrate works best. Then enriching it with essential macro-micro nutrients, without adding any carbon sources.
Cubensis will utilize ammoniacal and ureic nitrogen, P2O5, K2O, and other.
Then adding much less spawn, 1-10%, like gourmet.
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Reminder: Test small samples, 25g of dry paper will also fruit. Also you are using an older WL-Tek recipe, update.
Edited by Ferather (01/23/18 01:59 PM)
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Marmie
Peter peter portion eater



Registered: 10/21/15
Posts: 918
Loc: Deep inside the night
Last seen: 28 days, 23 hours
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Quote:
fishermansjc said: I’m curious why you need a centrifuge for that unless you’re trying to load a certain amount of spore solution into each syringe?
They use it for pe veriaties that lack the ability to print, im not sure of the actual process of it but ive heard thats how most vendors get pe syringes
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Marmie]
#24936343 - 01/23/18 02:02 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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DIY dung, 100% soluble, absorbed into substrates:

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Germs
Space Force


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,607
Loc: Texas
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24936348 - 01/23/18 02:05 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: DIY dung, 100% soluble, absorbed into substrates:


DIY dung?
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Germs] 1
#24936361 - 01/23/18 02:15 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, sorry let me explain with more images, here is a few types of manure:

Contains: Ammoniacal and ureic nitrogen, P2O5, K2O plus other nutrients.
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Lets compare that with the DIY dung (fertilizer) I mentioned:

Contains: Ammoniacal and ureic nitrogen, P2O5, K2O plus other nutrients.
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Lets make another comparison, but with wood ash:

Contains: P2O5, K2O plus other nutrients as oxides.
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natedog889
OffBalanceHandStand



Registered: 11/25/17
Posts: 484
Last seen: 2 years, 30 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
#24936375 - 01/23/18 02:23 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Question for you Boyz does a magnetic stirrer really help your over all LC beacuse i'm looking into them after doing some reading through some forms and someone was saying they help but there a bit on the more advance side Lol
Fuck that im not scared and if its going to help the cause might as well right
thoughts???
-------------------- Tossed Out the Junk For The Findings of Inner Peace & Love. Trying So Hard to Be the BEST I CAN BE. Read Along kids Know KnOwLedGe is PoWer. Josex "MAKING AN UNFILTERED GW BROTH FROM GRAIN FLOUR, CUZ YOU'RE A NASTY FUCK..." Love It when they Talk Dirty.
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower




Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,717
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedog889]
#24936383 - 01/23/18 02:26 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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It won't make an LC any less prone to contamination AFAIK, but it will speed up colonization time, shaving off a few days easily.
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LizardWizard]
#24936416 - 01/23/18 02:38 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Does anyone know if the less effective β-Amylase enzyme is more effective on grain flour vs whole grain?
[Example A]: If I put organic rye into hot water, stir it up, not much comes out. - Spawn. [Example B]: If I use rye flour, most of the particles suspend in the water. - LC.
Would β-Amylase enzymes be more effective on example B?
Given over time the grain will dry out.
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Another way to look at it, would the mechanical cleavage be similar to enzymes?
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00Burnout
That one guy



Registered: 05/02/16
Posts: 2,186
Loc: Ozarks
Last seen: 7 months, 22 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LizardWizard]
#24936428 - 01/23/18 02:43 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Magnetic stir plates are the shit if you need a lot of lc fast, but they won't save you from a dirty culture or bad sterile tek.
Idk how big of an op you're running, but personally, I wouldn't sink the money on a stir plate unless you're growing an insane amount of mushrooms and want to get some masters ready fast.
A simple swirl of the jar every now and then does plenty as far as reoxygenating the broth and breaking the mycelium apart for more inoculation points.
-------------------- Peace, pot and microdot! No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout Ghetto Greenhouse Trade List https://psychedelia.space
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natedog889
OffBalanceHandStand



Registered: 11/25/17
Posts: 484
Last seen: 2 years, 30 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
#24936464 - 01/23/18 03:04 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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well i got 4 Practice LC that are started
Iv dropped a decent agar puck worth of mycel on the bigger jar i even dropped 2 inside of it probably Overkill but fuck it you know
hmmm... So a stirrer helps your LC get long faster isnt that thing fast all ready Lol some say like 3-4 days and your LC should be ready or Even right away if you want to lol
-------------------- Tossed Out the Junk For The Findings of Inner Peace & Love. Trying So Hard to Be the BEST I CAN BE. Read Along kids Know KnOwLedGe is PoWer. Josex "MAKING AN UNFILTERED GW BROTH FROM GRAIN FLOUR, CUZ YOU'RE A NASTY FUCK..." Love It when they Talk Dirty.
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00Burnout
That one guy



Registered: 05/02/16
Posts: 2,186
Loc: Ozarks
Last seen: 7 months, 22 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedog889]
#24936484 - 01/23/18 03:15 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Colonization of an lc depends on how rich your nutrients are, how strong your culture is and the amount of inoculom you use to (x) amount of broth. My atl7 lc took nearly a week to colonize but I used a small wedge and super clear lc.
I've seen an lc on here that was done in a little over 24hr on a stir plate.
Edit: I only use malt extract @ 0.25%
-------------------- Peace, pot and microdot! No amount of progress has ever been made in the way of man without challenging the things we think we understand.-00Burnout Ghetto Greenhouse Trade List https://psychedelia.space
Edited by 00Burnout (01/23/18 03:25 PM)
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,649
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 13 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
#24936561 - 01/23/18 03:49 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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temps/genes play a roll too
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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pacmanbreed


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 3,746
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather] 1
#24936655 - 01/23/18 04:30 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Highly apreciate the help&effort ferather. Sorry for letting you rewrite this again. Forgot to review ur pocket guide for a noobish question. That was helpful specially the secondary effect of protien sources for nitrogen. Ammonical and ureic to omit other microorganisms. Did refresh my understanding before doing gourments and trying open innoculations.
Gourment its much simpler. Specialized in cellulose -10% wl-tek with fixated nitrogen + macromicro as spawn -50/50 paper/wood for bulk.
For cubes since they are really specialized in starch this is the simplest way around avoiding easy carbon & protiens in large amount. -1-10% asceptic grain spawn -to wl-substrate with fixated nitrogen + macro-micro bulk.
Im thinkering of alternative fixated resistant nitrogen source aside From MG eg. Urea from urine etc. Thanks for the molecular calculator brother. Will try chitin(C8H15NO6) + cellulose(C6H10O5) for gourments. 100g cellulose + 17g chitin = 50:1
Can coir be used alternative to paper if soaked im lime to remove some of the phenols? For bulks?
Edited by pacmanbreed (01/23/18 04:36 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Marmie]
#24936671 - 01/23/18 04:34 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Marmie said:
Quote:
fishermansjc said: I’m curious why you need a centrifuge for that unless you’re trying to load a certain amount of spore solution into each syringe?
They use it for pe veriaties that lack the ability to print, im not sure of the actual process of it but ive heard thats how most vendors get pe syringes
You can place an entire cap in the water or fill fragments then run it and separate spores from flesh and also contams
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: pacmanbreed] 1
#24936690 - 01/23/18 04:44 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
pacmanbreed said: ...Can coir be used alternative to paper if soaked I'm lime to remove some of the phenol's? For bulks?
Using starch is still faster for lignicolous mycelium, however the phenol's they love are acidic, media pH has the same effect.
Yes, the phenol's in coir are optional, they are not very inhibitory, just make sure the end pH is 7-7.5 roughly. Paper has most-all the phenol's removed and has a pH of 7-7.5, you may prefer to leech the coir.
I found adding [X] amount lime to the hydration water and measuring easier.
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Test the end media on small samples, also test contamination level. If you are being aseptic, you can be more experimental.
Edited by Ferather (01/23/18 04:50 PM)
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,940
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: 00Burnout]
#24936708 - 01/23/18 04:50 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
00Burnout said: Colonization of an lc depends on how rich your nutrients are, how strong your culture is and the amount of inoculom you use to (x) amount of broth. My atl7 lc took nearly a week to colonize but I used a small wedge and super clear lc.
I've seen an lc on here that was done in a little over 24hr on a stir plate.
Edit: I only use malt extract @ 0.25%
No way a normal lc colonized in 24 hours. I also think a week is suspect. Mine done with the biopsy don't even show growth for 5 days. I could see a week if it's inoculated with LI but how many do that?
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