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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,838
Re: psilocybin and impulse control [Re: Plurlife]
    #24927352 - 01/20/18 06:22 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Some people here are promoting Fight Or Flight response (sympathetic nervous activity) as a primary psychedelic attribute.
This would apply strongly to Stimulants such as Amphetamines and Cocaine which are significantly different from the psychedelic class, even though extended use of stimulants will produce delirious hallucinations.

On strong doses of psychedelics people can become agitated (which is FOF mitigated) because they are confused or lost (so it is a psychologically induced FOF after confusion). This is a secondary effect - still some people here are in love with the idea of FOF being a primary and essential  part of the psychedelic experience.

On low doses users of psychedelics can also become agitated/excited and may also have accelerated digestion and frequent urination as well, which are sympathetic nervous activity, but this is not the cause of the mind expansion, sensory enhancement, time dilation, or visual alterations.
Remember amphetamines produce the full spectrum of sympathetic (FOF) effects immediately without psychedelic effects.


Preaching that FOF is a primary psychedelic property is unscientific (unsupported by fair analysis of data) and shows backwards logic: although it can be correlated FOF (sympathomimesis) is not causative of psychedelic effects.


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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,069
Re: psilocybin and impulse control [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24930577 - 01/21/18 03:24 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Some people here are promoting Fight Or Flight response (sympathetic nervous activity) as a primary psychedelic attribute.
This would apply strongly to Stimulants such as Amphetamines and Cocaine which are significantly different from the psychedelic class, even though extended use of stimulants will produce delirious hallucinations.




Personally I am promoting the activity of the fight or flight response as an important psychedelic attribute of psilocybin, which I of course have provided more than one citation for.

Strong stimulants such as amphetamines and cocaine aren't readily available in the wild like magic mushrooms are.

Quote:

redgreenvines said: On strong doses of psychedelics people can become agitated (which is FOF mitigated) because they are confused or lost (so it is a psychologically induced FOF after confusion). This is a secondary effect - still some people here are in love with the idea of FOF being a primary and essential  part of the psychedelic experience.




The FOF response probably wouldn't mitigate agitation as it is involved in releasing adrenaline and increasing both the heart rate and blood pressure so I'm not sure where you're going with that.

"psychologically induced FOF after confusion" - can you expand on what you mean by this?

I've linked citations that suggest the areas of the nervous system responsible for regulation of the FOF response are influenced by the psychedelic effects of psilocybin.

Quote:

redgreenvines said: On low doses users of psychedelics can also become agitated/excited and may also have accelerated digestion and frequent urination as well, which are sympathetic nervous activity, but this is not the cause of the mind expansion, sensory enhancement, time dilation, or visual alterations.
Remember amphetamines produce the full spectrum of sympathetic (FOF) effects immediately without psychedelic effects.





I'm not suggesting the sympathetic nervous system has any psychedelic effects like hallucinations or the likes, but that it influences the heart rate and blood pressure of the individual which is something the individual experiencing it can be aware of. As in when my heart rate changes, I can be aware of that as it happens over time.

I prefer to focus on psilocybin because it was readily available to our ancestors and it's the safest of the sorts although there are also studies of the influences of MDMA and LSD on sympathetic systems.

Quote:

etc.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC81503/
https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1011615-overview




Quote:

redgreenvines said: Preaching that FOF is a primary psychedelic property is unscientific (unsupported by fair analysis of data) and shows backwards logic: although it can be correlated FOF (sympathomimesis) is not causative of psychedelic effects.




Sharing citations that suggest an important property of psychedelics is an influence on the FOF response is as scientific as its possible to be on such a topic as this.

Again I'm not saying sympathomimesis as you would call it is causative of psychedelic effects, but that it is causative of a distinctive change in heart rate and blood pressure.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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