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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: VroomerMcZoomers] * 1
    #24931336 - 01/21/18 12:35 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

VroomerMcZoomers said:
Why don't you devote that energy to real problems that we have?





Exactly. All this bullshit just distracts people from our real problems, which are primarily due to a runaway plutocracy apportioning everything for themselves.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24931383 - 01/21/18 12:56 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

"Exactly. All this bullshit just distracts people from our real problems, which are primarily due to a runaway plutocracy apportioning everything for themselves."

Well, when you put it that way, I guess the answer to the question would be "Because that's Marxism, which I was taught is unacceptable"

In Marxist analysis, these plutocrats are the 'bourgeoisie'.

McCarthyism and the purge of leftist thinkers in the early-mid 20th century has left the public mind largely incapable of realizing the source of all these social problems we have today due to inequality.

As soon as someone makes an observation, the paranoia sweeps in and they hate themselves for being a Marxist, or someone points out to them that Marx talked that way and they should be ashamed of themselves for having such a stupid thought.  Don't you know Marxism is responsible for 1000000000 deaths?  A fair and equitable society would kill everybody!  It's been proven throughout history...or whatever they say.  It'll be equally stupid.


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

Edited by VroomerMcZoomers (01/21/18 12:59 PM)

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InvisibleBubbles85

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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: VroomerMcZoomers] * 2
    #24931401 - 01/21/18 01:02 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

None of you are going to do shit to change any thing. You'll continually vote for a rigged two party system for the rest of your lives. The problems we have are all relevant to this thread. The globe is in a fucking mess because of retarded philosophy's like Marxism embraced by brainwashed morons.

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24931411 - 01/21/18 01:06 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The globe is in a fucking mess because of retarded philosophy's like Marxism embraced by brainwashed morons.




Could you please elaborate on this?  Because that just sounds stupid to me.


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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OfflineThundermuscle75
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: VroomerMcZoomers] * 1
    #24931432 - 01/21/18 01:15 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I'm against Marxism but I'm no right winger.
It just seems like an archaic cultish philosophy Wich relies on assessments of human nature that don't ring true to me.

I don't however have a knee jerk reaction to small s socialism.


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"Rape ... Is a... can of apples" -Fiery

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InvisibleBubbles85

Registered: 10/15/12
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #24931472 - 01/21/18 01:39 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

VroomerMcZoomers said:
Quote:

The globe is in a fucking mess because of retarded philosophy's like Marxism embraced by brainwashed morons.




Could you please elaborate on this?  Because that just sounds stupid to me.



People are far to easily swayed to believe in fairy tale nonsense. If we take a look at some of the problems facing Europe with the migrant crisis for instance, people who embrace this theory are heavily involved in the chaos being created.

Anarchists, no border activists, Communists, all Marxist type thinkers basically getting involved in human trafficking to prove some philosophical point illustrated in their prophet's book that we're workers of the world and nations are obsolete.

Mean while the world's elite who are predominately capitalist are pushing the same agenda. Not because they're Marxist, or think the destruction of each nation in Europe will ultimately some how lead to communism (like Marxists) But simply because they're profiting immensely.

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InvisibleBubbles85

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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: Thundermuscle75]
    #24931474 - 01/21/18 01:39 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thundermuscle75 said:
I'm against Marxism but I'm no right winger.
It just seems like an archaic cultish philosophy Wich relies on assessments of human nature that don't ring true to me.

I don't however have a knee jerk reaction to small s socialism.



:whathesaid:

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: Bubbles85] * 1
    #24931485 - 01/21/18 01:47 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for answering my question.  I've got a good sense of where you are coming from now.


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24931555 - 01/21/18 02:24 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bubbles85 said:
I suggest it is you who does not know what the fuck they are talking about my friend. Citizen of google ....

:lolsy:

Get fucking real!




https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/061115/googles-revenue-beats-gdp-several-major-countries.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googleplex

Google has significant income, land, presumably building security, imports (computers, electricity, water), exports (google.com, sewage, garbage), and a significant population that is ideologically and financially driven to work for a single goal. Since they're a corporation, they're pretty much guaranteed to have their own "constitution" of sorts, which they call a company charter or mission statement or some shit.

Define: Nation

a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.

Define: Country

a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory

Google has a unifying culture, that of computer geeks. Google has a particular territory. Google has an internal government, with CEOs and boards and code monkeys.

I, personally, see little difference. If google decided to build a bunch of employee housing on site, you could probably exist solely in Google, living in a google home, driving a google car to the google store, to buy google groceries, and filing your taxes through a google accountant who takes care of it for you. You could literally stop interacting with the rest of the world.

Matter of fact, there have been some semi-famous examples of such.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bournville
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman,_Chicago#Beginnings

And, at this point, I'm pretty sure Disney should be brought up. Disney has a shitload of little towns all over Florida where living is cheap and easy, but you're expected to vote how Disney tells you to vote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebration,_Florida

The famous one.

Heck, Disney is legally exempt from so many local and federal laws, Disneyworld is pretty much it's own sovereign state at this point.

EDIT: Forgot to edit top quote. I am not touching Marx.

Edited by Kryptos (01/21/18 03:29 PM)

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InvisibleApostleofAzathoth
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: viktor]
    #24931635 - 01/21/18 03:04 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Why don't you start by reading some Marx? You have to know what the man said if you want to counter his ideology effectively after all. :lol:

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InvisibleBubbles85

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 2,884
Loc: England Flag
Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #24931711 - 01/21/18 03:33 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Bubbles85 said:
The topic at hand is Marx's proclamation that workers have no country. Since this was part of his philosophy, I think it adequate to equate the notion to Marxist theory. You probably think, like most people, that you are being fucking clever. But all you are really doing is demonstrating your complete lack of ability to think freely and for your self. You are the mouth piece of your over lords.

I suggest it is you who does not know what the fuck they are talking about my friend. Citizen of google ....

:lolsy:

Get fucking real!




https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/061115/googles-revenue-beats-gdp-several-major-countries.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googleplex

Google has significant income, land, presumably building security, imports (computers, electricity, water), exports (google.com, sewage, garbage), and a significant population that is ideologically and financially driven to work for a single goal. Since they're a corporation, they're pretty much guaranteed to have their own "constitution" of sorts, which they call a company charter or mission statement or some shit.

Define: Nation

a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.

Define: Country

a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory

Google has a unifying culture, that of computer geeks. Google has a particular territory. Google has an internal government, with CEOs and boards and code monkeys.

I, personally, see little difference. If google decided to build a bunch of employee housing on site, you could probably exist solely in Google, living in a google home, driving a google car to the google store, to buy google groceries, and filing your taxes through a google accountant who takes care of it for you. You could literally stop interacting with the rest of the world.

Matter of fact, there have been some semi-famous examples of such.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bournville
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman,_Chicago#Beginnings

And, at this point, I'm pretty sure Disney should be brought up. Disney has a shitload of little towns all over Florida where living is cheap and easy, but you're expected to vote how Disney tells you to vote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebration,_Florida

The famous one.

Heck, Disney is legally exempt from so many local and federal laws, Disneyworld is pretty much it's own sovereign state at this point.



Google also has a reputation for censorship and bias.

I saw some one argue the other day in another thread about us having chips implanted in our heads in a few hundred years. Is that some thing you can see too? A breed of real humanoid, with Google chips in their brains programmed to control what they do, how they act, or think and feel? Fuck that. Lol.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24931731 - 01/21/18 03:43 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Google can do whatever it wants with its service. It's like the youtube demonetization thing: You don't have any rights on youtube except the ones youtube decides to give you. Just like you don't have any rights in the US, except those spelled out in the constitution and the law books. Which is admittedly a lot.

I don't mind conforming to their code, which you may call censorship. Just like you, by being a citizen of your own country, don't mind conforming to their laws. That's my social contract with Google when I use their stuff.

As for your brain chip implants, well, I'd have to see the benefits. I wouldn't mind getting a wifi chip hooked to my brain, so I had instantaneous access to the information on the internet. That's why I saved up and spent nearly a grand on a nice smartphone a year ago-it's basically that chip, but it goes through my fingers instead of directly into my brain. Heck, I'd even do a few terabytes of solid state drive on top, and if you hooked a GPU into my optic nerve, I'd be playing Fallout 4 super-VR while I poop.

What, you think your phone doesn't control you? Of course it does. It keeps you near a charger, it keeps you near electricity, it tells you where food is when you tell cortana/alexa/google assistant/whatever "I'm hungry". Or when you type in "food near me". Just like computers control what you do. What if your search engine of choice decided that Chinese was bad for whatever reason and stopped listing Chinese places? Well, you wouldn't see any new Chinese places, and chances are you'd just go to the few you know about and no new ones. Or you'd switch search engines. Or switch phones. Or switch brain chips.

You see fear and control, I see a new level of convenience. If it doesn't work out, I won't buy it. If it's forced and it doesn't work out, well shit man, I can get weed even though it's illegal, can't I? I'll figure out a way to get rid of it. I played that game back when I lived in Russia/USSR.

Edited by Kryptos (01/21/18 03:57 PM)

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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #24931794 - 01/21/18 04:15 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I don’t know any even close to communists little alone Marxist . And I’m in a hippie colony in Southern California :lol:


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Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: VroomerMcZoomers] * 1
    #24931922 - 01/21/18 05:17 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

How many people here believe that Marxism is when the government outlaws religion, makes all sorts of decisions about your personal, private life, and anybody who works for a living is 'taxed to death' to pay for the irresponsible lifestyles of 'lazy' people?

I might launch a crusade against Marxism too if I thought that's what it meant.


--------------------
 

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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OfflineThundermuscle75
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: VroomerMcZoomers] * 1
    #24932802 - 01/22/18 12:21 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

VroomerMcZoomers said:
How many people here believe that Marxism is when the government outlaws religion, makes all sorts of decisions about your personal, private life, and anybody who works for a living is 'taxed to death' to pay for the irresponsible lifestyles of 'lazy' people?

I might launch a crusade against Marxism too if I thought that's what it meant.




No. Those are just side effects that commonly occur when the implementation of Marxism is attempted. The proletariat never forms a perfectly functioning democracy. The masses never fall into unending love for various forms of work for the good of the community. Working for what is ours and not mine or yours in communion with our fellow workers (everyone) never becomes the ultimate fulfilment of personal and social development. If this fails to happen the capitalists won't be woke to the fact that they must transform into righteous members of the proletariat. Those who don't transform may be dealt with by force.

Since society will evolve into a non coercive collective utopia, where the needs for a state, millitary, police and laws naturally dissolve away, the use of force will be minimal.

But what if part of the theory fails to coalesce?
What if those who fail to become transformed into fully realised collectivists are the many, not the few?

Do you abandon the experiment?
Do you build on the successes and abandon the failures?
Or does the minimal application of force become a maximal application of force?

Marxism to me is like an " If You Give A Mouse A Cookie" book where at the beginning you give a mouse a cookie and a glass of milk. By the end of the book every mouse in the world is happily working together, taking turns doing all of the jobs required to give all the mice in the world the most wonderful milk and cookies ever produced and realizing previously unseen levels of perfect mousehood. Of course early on a few mice might fail to assimilate. They'll just need the help of a few cats. Just for awhile.


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"Rape ... Is a... can of apples" -Fiery

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: Thundermuscle75] * 3
    #24933019 - 01/22/18 05:23 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

"Oh, no.  I don't believe that.  It's just exactly what happens. "


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: 2018 Counter-Marxism thread [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #24933706 - 01/22/18 12:20 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

:rofl2:  :awesomenod:  :thumbup:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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