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OfflineWScott
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24931416 - 01/21/18 01:07 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)



Just a screen capture, I know, but maybe some tidbits to look into.

:cookiemonster:


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24931431 - 01/21/18 01:15 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Doesn't the Constitution explicitly assign the president the power to pardon?.....that's what I meant by "give".


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (01/21/18 01:21 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24931460 - 01/21/18 01:34 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

That's true, but it's also true that the state always has "police power" which is the power to prosecute.  The power to prosecute always includes the power to not prosecute or pardon.

The Constitution is intended to limit that inherent power, which it does by excluding "cases of impeachment."


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24931470 - 01/21/18 01:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

>The power to prosecute always includes the power to not prosecute or pardon.

Since when do prosecutors have the power to pardon? That only rests with the head of state


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24931471 - 01/21/18 01:39 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Gotcha


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24931486 - 01/21/18 01:48 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>The power to prosecute always includes the power to not prosecute or pardon.

Since when do prosecutors have the power to pardon? That only rests with the head of state



The power to prosecute is the state's power. Prosecutors only have the authority to prosecute because it was delegated to them by the state.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24931653 - 01/21/18 03:11 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

So you admit this was wrong?

>The power to prosecute always includes the power to not prosecute or pardon.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24931657 - 01/21/18 03:12 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

No.  The power to prosecute always includes the power to not prosecute or pardon.

Prosecutors are delegated the authority to prosecute by the state.  It's the state's power.  The state, however, isn't a human being.  As a result, the state can give human beings authority to wield state power.  Prosecutors have the authority to wield the state's power to prosecute.

Of course the state can limit the authority of any delegated power.  For instance, the state might have certain prosecutors that handle specific kinds of cases, and other prosecutors are not delegated the power to prosecute those particular cases. 

Even the governor or President's power to pardon is limited by the state.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24931688 - 01/21/18 03:26 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-van-houten-parole-20160722-snap-story.html

Relevant?

Seems like the supreme court of California can overturn the governor's overturning the parole board's ruling.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24931853 - 01/21/18 04:45 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Still wrong, prosecutors can not pardon anyone. They can choose not to prosecute but once someone is convicted they can not pardon them. Only the state can do that. The president if federal or governor if state crime


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24931875 - 01/21/18 04:57 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I never said a prosecutor could pardon someone.  Maybe you should read more closely.

Also, not all governors have authority to pardon.  The state has power to pardon, and in most states, it delegates authority to pardon to the governor, but not every state. 


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24931940 - 01/21/18 05:22 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

>I never said a prosecutor could pardon someone
>The power to prosecute always includes the power to not prosecute or pardon

Sure sounds like it. It will take some major squirming to even deflect. Your best move is to ignore and move on when you get caught like that


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24931960 - 01/21/18 05:29 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Let me try to break it down so you can understand.

ONLY the state (or other governmental unit) has the power to prosecute.  That power includes the power to pardon.

States delegate the authority to prosecute to different people.  Those people are usually called prosecutors, or district attorneys.  Sometimes, they're called attorneys general.  Those people have the authority to prosecute within the limitations defined by the state who has the actual power to prosecute.  One of those limitations is that they are not delegated authority to pardon.

States do delegate the authority to pardon, usually to a governor, but sometimes to an agency or panel of people.  At the federal level, that authority, with some exception is delegated to the President.


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OfflineXUL
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24932083 - 01/21/18 06:30 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Apparently this memo could end the Mueller investigation.

Good shit.


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TRUMP 2020


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24932230 - 01/21/18 07:32 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Nice squirming but no cigar. You said

>The power to prosecute always includes the power to not prosecute or pardon

We know their power comes from the government, that is not the question. Just as the power of government comes from the people. But so what? Your statement is simply not correct, the prosecutor, the one charged with making yes or no decisions on prosecuting major crimes is not allowed to pardon, as you belatedly admit. Yet you still go on bleating about blah blah the state appoints.. blah which is irrrelevent. OK you deflected attention from the fact you were wrong. Well played.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24932236 - 01/21/18 07:34 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

You seem to be confused about the difference between power and authority.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #24932483 - 01/21/18 09:19 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

So tedious.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: WScott]
    #24932584 - 01/21/18 10:04 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WScott said:


Just a screen capture, I know, but maybe some tidbits to look into.

:cookiemonster:




I imagine your walllaper looks something like that


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: koods]
    #24932621 - 01/21/18 10:17 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Do you even care that the DNC murders people who stand up to them?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: #ObamaGate [Re: Great Scott]
    #24932659 - 01/21/18 10:32 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:


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