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OfflineSkulltivator
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Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs)
    #24921390 - 01/17/18 05:42 PM (7 years, 5 hours ago)

Okay, so I'm harvesting some sclerotia tonight. Or so I thought. There don't appear to be any!

It's these Chicon Nindos, which everybody seemed to think were okay to harvest.

I smacked the jars up against a giant tennis ball I bought specifically for the purpose over and over again for several minutes, but they would not break up for anything so I decided to go with the spoon method.

I opened up the jars. They smelled like mushrooms. Good sign. They were hard to dig out. After I got it all out and started trying to pick sclerotia out of the chunks of myc, there didn't seem to be anything to pick out. I rubbed the chunks between my hands, as if I were about to do a Mr. Myiagi healing trick, and everything just seemed to disintegrate in my hands.

Here's some pics. First, the colander of what remains from one jar:



Then, some little chunks I didn't disintegrate but pretty sure I could. They just look like white myc holding some RGS together, which, I'm assuming, is all they are, but they're the biggest chunks left:



Then, another jar:



And that jar up close. It looked sort of weird to me:



What do you make of this? Did I do something wrong or were there just no sclerotia in there after 6 mos.?

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Skulltivator]
    #24921465 - 01/17/18 06:14 PM (7 years, 5 hours ago)

How long do people usually allow jars to sit before harvesting sceroltia??  Usually three months or so??

        How were the jars inoculated? With an Ms syringe or with agar?  That's weird there were no sceroltia..... I wonder if something else colonized the jar contam wise?  I don't have any experience with dealing with sceroltia producers so idk.....:shrug:

          Did the myc grow sceroltia but then end up consuming them for a food source I wonder??


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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Skulltivator]
    #24921505 - 01/17/18 06:30 PM (7 years, 5 hours ago)

I’ve had CN and tamp jars go thick white like that and do nothing...possibly bacterial. TBH, those jars didn’t look great but you could case the grains and try for fruit...some cultures don’t stone up well.  If you’re able to find those stones from jar 3 you could clone and have a better shot at stones on the next round or start over.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24921508 - 01/17/18 06:33 PM (7 years, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

Threads from God89 said:
How long do people usually allow jars to sit before harvesting sceroltia??  Usually three months or so??

        How were the jars inoculated? With an Ms syringe or with agar?  That's weird there were no sceroltia..... I wonder if something else colonized the jar contam wise?  I don't have any experience with dealing with sceroltia producers so idk.....:shrug:

          Did the myc grow sceroltia but then end up consuming them for a food source I wonder??




People usually wait 3-6 months from the time of stone formation.

If you leave them longer than three months, you get bigger stones, but if you leave them too long (longer than 6-9 mos.), they start rotting, or so I've gathered from all the reading I've done.

MS.

I'm not awesome at identifying contams at this point so I really can't say, but, in the link I gave above to earlier discussions about these jars, the consensus was pretty solid that they looked good.

Sclerotia ARE myc, just hardened myc, so it wouldn't eat itself, I think. Plus, it was in a good range for harvesting, but we'll see what others say.

Also, I just don't know what stones feel like. Could I have disintegrated them or are they harder than that? That's what I want others to chime in on.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24921515 - 01/17/18 06:38 PM (7 years, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
I’ve had CN and tamp jars go thick white like that and do nothing...possibly bacterial. TBH, those jars didn’t look great but you could case the grains and try for fruit...some cultures don’t stone up well.  If you’re able to find those stones from jar 3 you could clone and have a better shot at stones on the next round or start over.




All right, well, that's helpful. If they never looked good in the first place, perhaps that's all there is to say on the matter. Bacteria.

I'm still trying to get a sense of what counts as thick myc and what's the right amount of thickness. Incidentally, why exactly does myc get thicker when there's bacteria?

Okay, good suggestion. Maybe I'll try fruiting them.

And...there's actually three more jars besides these two.

This hobby is not easy, is it?! :laugh:

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Skulltivator]
    #24921566 - 01/17/18 06:55 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

Will grains that sat that long still posses enough energy to be able to fruit once cased?  Even if dunked and drained well before casing?

    With regular, fruiting cubes I know you want to bulk spawn or case the grains within a couple days of being 100% colonized. (Preferably a week at most)... So how does that apply to bulking or casing sceroltia producers once the grain has sat THAT long before casing?

      I guess ideally if a grower wanted to obtain stones and bulk grow with the spawn to get fruits and prints then you would have to find a nice balance of letting them sit long enough for stones to form, but not TOO LONG.... So that they still had enough energy stores to colonize the bulk sub...?.... :shrug:


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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24921572 - 01/17/18 06:58 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

What was your inoculation method??  Ms syringe to grain??  If there was any bacteria or competing molds present in the syringe they could have won the jar over that long of a period of time. 
 
      Just brainstormin' tho!


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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Skulltivator]
    #24921589 - 01/17/18 07:05 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

Here are some nice clean tamp jars at 26 days; not looking like they’ll be big producers but my tamps never are:



Left is a clean 26 day old tamp jar, middle is a 7 month old tamp jar and the the right is an old bacterial tamp jar that never did anything, similar to yours:


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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24921602 - 01/17/18 07:09 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Threads from God89 said:
Will grains that sat that long still posses enough energy to be able to fruit once cased?  Even if dunked and drained well before casing?

    With regular, fruiting cubes I know you want to bulk spawn or case the grains within a couple days of being 100% colonized. (Preferably a week at most)... So how does that apply to bulking or casing sceroltia producers once the grain has sat THAT long before casing?

      I guess ideally if a grower wanted to obtain stones and bulk grow with the spawn to get fruits and prints then you would have to find a nice balance of letting them sit long enough for stones to form, but not TOO LONG.... So that they still had enough energy stores to colonize the bulk sub...?.... :shrug:




Well, stonesun does cover fruiting procedures here. But I appreciate your trying to knock this around with me.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24921604 - 01/17/18 07:10 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Threads from God89 said:
What was your inoculation method??  Ms syringe to grain??  If there was any bacteria or competing molds present in the syringe they could have won the jar over that long of a period of time. 
 
      Just brainstormin' tho!




MS!

Thanks for brainstorming.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24921609 - 01/17/18 07:13 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Here are some nice clean tamp jars at 26 days; not looking like they’ll be big producers but my tamps never are:



Left is a clean 26 day old tamp jar, middle is a 7 month old tamp jar and the the right is an old bacterial tamp jar that never did anything, similar to yours:






Okay, that's VERY helpful.

I've got two Tamps colonosing now that look like an early version of the one on the left. The middle doesn't look like ANYTHING I've done with stones. And, yes, I get the point with the last jar. If you can hardly see the grains, that's a problem, I gather.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Skulltivator]
    #24921615 - 01/17/18 07:15 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

They don’t look like sclerotia

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Skulltivator]
    #24921628 - 01/17/18 07:20 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

Yeah, just throwing it out to illustrate.  The middle jar is just old and past it’s prime...here it is at earlier stages:



Anyway, you get the idea plus you have stonesun to glean from and that’s where I get a lot of my info/inspiration.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24921654 - 01/17/18 07:29 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

Yeah, looks like I'll be using his prep tek for when I run my ATl #7s!!  Gonna try and find some rye berries!! :lol:


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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24921659 - 01/17/18 07:30 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Yeah, just throwing it out to illustrate.  The middle jar is just old and past it’s prime...here it is at earlier stages:



Anyway, you get the idea plus you have stonesun to glean from and that’s where I get a lot of my info/inspiration.




Right. That's an awesome thread.

And I really appreciate you digging out those old pictures. They say so much that words struggle to illustrate.

A question about these latest pics of yours, though. The myc there actually does look quite thick. Can you talk about the differences between that and all these thick myc jars I've been having that people keep saying are too thick? I'm just not getting how to identify this problem somehow.

And how about cubes in relation to this thick myc question? Here's a cube thread of mine where the thickness thing was an issue.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24921663 - 01/17/18 07:32 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

There are lots of great places. Some sponsors have them. I get mine from a local natural/organic type joint. Very cheap and awesome.

Quote:

Threads from God89 said:
Yeah, looks like I'll be using his prep tek for when I run my ATl #7s!!  Gonna try and find some rye berries!! :lol:



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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Skulltivator]
    #24921682 - 01/17/18 07:39 PM (7 years, 4 hours ago)

Right on.... Yeah I have a health foods store nearby, but idk if I could get them bulk from there or not, lol.... Might have to get from a sponsor or eBay.  Then I think "Well shit, is it gonna look weird getting a 10lb bag of rye berries delivered to my house?".... Yeah, maybe a little... :shrug:

          There's always the rural King..... I know they have grass seed so might have those too, lol.


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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Skulltivator]
    #24921726 - 01/17/18 08:00 PM (7 years, 3 hours ago)

They get thicker and funkier as they age but they have more brown hues than white.  The cube jars in the link are likely bacterial as well.  Couple suggestions would be to dry your grain better before loading/work on grain prep...the uncolonized grain looked a bit overdone in the cube jars and even more importantly, ditch the syringe to grains and start using agar to get clean cultures to inoculate your grain with.  You’ll have much better results.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24921741 - 01/17/18 08:06 PM (7 years, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
They get thicker and funkier as they age but they have more brown hues than white.  The cube jars in the link are likely bacterial as well.  Couple suggestions would be to dry your grain better before loading/work on grain prep...the uncolonized grain looked a bit overdone in the cube jars and even more importantly, ditch the syringe to grains and start using agar to get clean cultures to inoculate your grain with.  You’ll have much better results.




What he said..... Definitely do the ms-agar-grains when working for sceroltia.  Those grains just sit for too long to take a chance on using an Ms syringe to straight noc up your jars, too big of a contam risk without cleaning it up with agar first. 

      All of my regular cube grows have been highly successfully using Ms syringe directly to grain..... But I wouldn't do that with for sceroltia producers, as long as they sit!!! :thumbup:


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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24921746 - 01/17/18 08:10 PM (7 years, 3 hours ago)

I mean across the board.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24924298 - 01/18/18 09:05 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Threads from God89 said:
Right on.... Yeah I have a health foods store nearby, but idk if I could get them bulk from there or not, lol.... Might have to get from a sponsor or eBay.  Then I think "Well shit, is it gonna look weird getting a 10lb bag of rye berries delivered to my house?".... Yeah, maybe a little... :shrug:

          There's always the rural King..... I know they have grass seed so might have those too, lol.




Well, it's just gonna be a big square box and, if it's from a sponsor, the packaging will be discreet. Actually, I imagine it would 'look' weirder buying it from the store, but they're not going to have any idea what you're using it for. My shop told me to call them and they'd order it for me special at a bigger size for an even better price (and their price already rules).

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24924327 - 01/18/18 09:19 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
They get thicker and funkier as they age but they have more brown hues than white.  The cube jars in the link are likely bacterial as well.  Couple suggestions would be to dry your grain better before loading/work on grain prep...the uncolonized grain looked a bit overdone in the cube jars and even more importantly, ditch the syringe to grains and start using agar to get clean cultures to inoculate your grain with.  You’ll have much better results.




Okay, so:

1) Dry the grains better. I know this must be a big part of the problem because there's always more moisture in the jars than there's supposed to be and I don't think I can get the foil any tighter around the jars. Unless maybe my water level in the PC is too high. How high up the side of the jars do you take the PC water level? And for drying the grains, most of the time I leave them in the colanders for 6 hours or more, which, I think, is longer than what other people do around here, no? And I do RR's toilet paper test and there's no moisture left on it. What could be going wrong here?

2) You say the grain looked a bit overdone. What do you mean by that? And is this a result of not drying out the grains enough or is this separate point?

3) Agar. Yes, I know. It's just that my first two tries went so badly; I'm not really sure what I'm doing with it. I followed BOD's tek, but...

Here, by the way, is the thread from my first bout with agar.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Skulltivator]
    #24924851 - 01/19/18 03:35 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

1. What’s your jar prep? FAE in jars should be able to evaporate small amounts of water. If anyone can add to that cool because that’s ime

My grain sits in the colander for a half hour? Certainly never more than an hour ime

My PC has enough water so it doesn’t run dry. That’s my only concern when pc’ing.

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Re: Currently Harvesting Sclerotia, Could Use Some Input! (w/ PICs) [Re: Citizen X]
    #24932526 - 01/21/18 09:39 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Citizen X said:
1. What’s your jar prep? FAE in jars should be able to evaporate small amounts of water. If anyone can add to that cool because that’s ime




I've always followed RR's / stonesun's what I thought was exactly, but, clearly, SOMETHING'S up! The last sentence in this part of your response ('If anyone can add...') I don't quite understand. Can you say it another way or elaborate?

Quote:

Citizen X said:
My grain sits in the colander for a half hour? Certainly never more than an hour ime





Right. I really didn't think I was leaving it too short. So that suggests the water is getting in there in the PC, right? But what could I possibly be doing to cause that? I have the Presto 23-quart and usually put in three quarts of water, as per BOD's tek. And I crunch the foil down on the jars as tight as I can. I'm not sure what one can do beyond these things! If you've got any ideas, I'm all ears.

Quote:

Citizen X said:
My PC has enough water so it doesn’t run dry. That’s my only concern when pc’ing.




So how much water is that and what model of PC do you have?

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