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psilocyanide
Terry-Flappinsworth



Registered: 06/20/12
Posts: 235
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo
#24914809 - 01/14/18 11:55 PM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
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Hello, I was wondering if anyone uses this often?
I am having trouble getting the right consistency. It seems like no matter how much verm I add, it turns to mud before I can even get it to field capacity. I cant even squeeze it to test for field capacity because it all goops out of my hand like mud.
I just threw out a tub that I spawned yesterday. I just made a thread here (thanks hamloaf for answers!) about field capacity and noticed that I was making my tubs too wet. I went and opened it and it smelled like buttholes.
Ive been reading threads all night about it. So here is what I learned about it (pls correct me if i am wrong):
- The manure has different consistencies relative to the location
- It might have piss on it, so I should sun-bake it
- Though it may have ammonia from piss, it doesnt need to be (and shouldnt be because it wastes nutrients) leeched
- Cow manure (specifically, processed CM) has the consistency of dirt (which means the consistency of mud when wet)
I have seen people saying 1:1 verm : BK manure, but for me, its mud at that consistency.
I started making a tub today and noticed it was way too dense, so I threw out most of my sub that was something like 3 qts coir, 3 qts poo, 1 qt gypsum, and 7 qts of verm (i kept adding it to try to get it to not be muddy), then started over, saving a few quarts of this mud-mix. I then mixed about 2-3 qts of that mixture (the mud-mix), half a brick of coir, and atleast 5 qts of verm.
I think it seems okay. I just made a tub using 12 qts of this and 3 qts of colonized rye. Idk though, this was the last time I grew, and as you can see (if you clicked), I used store bought poo then. I definitely had sucess, I remember having a couple Ps at the end. But im just not sure if I completely remember what a suitable substrate should feel/look like.
I also remember when I made a bigger tub, like a 100qt, and it was super heavy, super dense, and got a bacterial contam, and living in the city at the time, I had to put it out front 5 days before trash day, and I swear to my left nut that it smelled like a dead body when I was at the corner store, and it was coming from my tub that was taped up and quadruple bagged.
I dont want something like that to happen again. Im more able to deal with disposal now, but, though I love working on this hobby from wake to sleep, I hate hate hate being elbows deep in hot-steaming piles all day and then realizing that I wasted all that effort/time/supplies when they get bacteria contams.
Anyway, I hope some people can chime in here and share their experience and/or knowledge of working with black kow manure.
Thanks for reading
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Variegated
Pressure cooker operator



Registered: 01/15/17
Posts: 820
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: psilocyanide]
#24914854 - 01/15/18 12:55 AM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
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Just use coir? Or a coir verm mix. All that black kow and poo isnt needed.you can get the same or better yeild just off coir with out all the trouble..as lomg as its cubes your growing.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: Variegated]
#24914856 - 01/15/18 12:58 AM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
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Why not use way less water and add more if needed. rather than pouring in a bunch of verm
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: psilocyanide]
#24914943 - 01/15/18 03:22 AM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
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Ive used it but not in a conventional way. I like to add a qt of store bought manure to a gallon of water. I bring to a boil, mix around very well. Then i use the gallon of poo water to hydrate my coir. It helps with the consistancy because mixing with the water first helps spread the manure in the coir more consistantly with no hard clumps of manure.
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psilocyanide
Terry-Flappinsworth



Registered: 06/20/12
Posts: 235
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: Variegated]
#24915866 - 01/15/18 02:03 PM (7 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
nube424 said: Ive used it but not in a conventional way. I like to add a qt of store bought manure to a gallon of water. I bring to a boil, mix around very well. Then i use the gallon of poo water to hydrate my coir. It helps with the consistancy because mixing with the water first helps spread the manure in the coir more consistantly with no hard clumps of manure.
that sounds like a good ideaQuote:
bodhisatta said: Why not use way less water and add more if needed. rather than pouring in a bunch of verm
Because I get no drops when I squeeze it really hard, then I add water, and dont get drips until its a muck that goes between my fingers when I squeeze it.
Quote:
Variegated said: Just use coir? Or a coir verm mix. All that black kow and poo isnt needed.you can get the same or better yeild just off coir with out all the trouble..as lomg as its cubes your growing.
I just wanted to use the store bought poo because i want to make a lot of tubs and a brick of eco earth for each tub can be expensive. I had friends that said they knew somewhere I could pick up horse poo, but every1 fell through when it was time, so I bought a bag of black kow for $5
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: psilocyanide]
#24915897 - 01/15/18 02:15 PM (7 years, 2 days ago) |
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Yea 50 lb bag of black kow is $5 in my state
MAYBE, u could do black cow/straw 30/70. Then add 20% verm. Should be fluffy enough like that.
Edited by nube424 (01/15/18 02:16 PM)
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psilocyanide
Terry-Flappinsworth



Registered: 06/20/12
Posts: 235
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: nube424]
#24915969 - 01/15/18 02:43 PM (7 years, 2 days ago) |
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Ive found straw to be just as hard to get as horse poo. I got a giant bag of peat moss before I realized that I dont need to case. I know people usually dont use this in their sub because its non nutritious, but what if i mixed something like coir/peat/verm/storepoo, considering that verm is used too and is non nutritious? The peat is spongy like the coir, I think even more so.
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: psilocyanide]
#24915992 - 01/15/18 02:58 PM (7 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
psilocyanide said: Ive found straw to be just as hard to get as horse poo. I got a giant bag of peat moss before I realized that I dont need to case. I know people usually dont use this in their sub because its non nutritious, but what if i mixed something like coir/peat/verm/storepoo, considering that verm is used too and is non nutritious? The peat is spongy like the coir, I think even more so.
That would work.
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psilocyanide
Terry-Flappinsworth



Registered: 06/20/12
Posts: 235
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: nube424]
#24916358 - 01/15/18 05:10 PM (7 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
nube424 said:
Quote:
psilocyanide said: Ive found straw to be just as hard to get as horse poo. I got a giant bag of peat moss before I realized that I dont need to case. I know people usually dont use this in their sub because its non nutritious, but what if i mixed something like coir/peat/verm/storepoo, considering that verm is used too and is non nutritious? The peat is spongy like the coir, I think even more so.
That would work.
I just tried it. Have a very spongy texture with my black kow, peat, vermk, coir, and added a little coffee and 10% gypsum. Able to see that it is at field capacity now.
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: psilocyanide]
#24917445 - 01/16/18 03:12 AM (7 years, 2 days ago) |
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Nice. Watch it and see how it colonizes. When i add a small amount of poo i notice the myc gets alot white than when i just use coir. Dont know if it affects anything
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JHOVA
Post whore



Registered: 02/17/17
Posts: 4,727
Loc:
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: nube424]
#24917604 - 01/16/18 06:54 AM (7 years, 1 day ago) |
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If you are jumping from under to over field capacity just use less water like bod said. If it were me id be focusing on the prep 100% not adding coffee and gypsum, at least my during my first go.
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√



Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 24,389
Loc: ation: Based.
Last seen: 7 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: JHOVA]
#24917754 - 01/16/18 08:49 AM (7 years, 1 day ago) |
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Agree, abort the coffee. Cow manure is like the cosistancy of dirt once broken down thus requires a lot of fluffing up.
Gypsum is harmless. Gypsum actually does less harm than good. Gypsum isn't necassary, but if it's available there is no need to skimp on it.
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: hamloaf]
#24917838 - 01/16/18 09:26 AM (7 years, 1 day ago) |
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Have you checked craigslist? I can always find some farmer outside of town with loads of horse poo though it might take a couple hours round trip (including shoveling/gathering the poo). Horse poo or plant compost is the best ime, they're much denser, thus more nutrients per volume and more fruits per volume, but still airy enough with some vermiculite added for productive growth.
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psilocyanide
Terry-Flappinsworth



Registered: 06/20/12
Posts: 235
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: JHOVA]
#24918671 - 01/16/18 03:56 PM (7 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Have you checked craigslist? I can always find some farmer outside of town with loads of horse poo though it might take a couple hours round trip (including shoveling/gathering the poo). Horse poo or plant compost is the best ime, they're much denser, thus more nutrients per volume and more fruits per volume, but still airy enough with some vermiculite added for productive growth.
Good idea, I will look into this. Thanks.
Quote:
JHOVA said: If you are jumping from under to over field capacity just use less water like bod said. If it were me id be focusing on the prep 100% not adding coffee and gypsum, at least my during my first go.
You guys arent quite getting it, though it is hard for me to describe. Its under FC, then I add water, and while its still under field capacity, when I try the squeeze test, it just mushes between my hands, so I cant really even compress it with my hand to see water drip out, because the whole sub leaks out of my hand. Its between a thick liquid and a solid.
The way I described, using peat moss to make the dung spongier, worked well. I hydrated half a block of coir, then added in dung until it became non-spongy, then added mostly peat moss, with some verm, to bring it back to a spongy texture.
When I hydrated the coir, I brought it to field capacity and inspected it, so that I could see what a proper substrate should feel like. Then I used that as a guide, adding the verm, peat, dung, gypsum, and coffee.
I think its going to colonize good. If it doesnt, then I will either start just using coir, or try to source some hpoo &/ straw. I can get a ride to a farm area if I want. Actually, thinking about it is making me think I should do this anyway.
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: psilocyanide]
#24918674 - 01/16/18 03:58 PM (7 years, 1 day ago) |
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Ahhh i see. Mud consistancy. More coir might help. But might not. U could put it in a pillow case and squeeze it like that. Should help it running everywhere
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: nube424]
#24918957 - 01/16/18 05:53 PM (7 years, 1 day ago) |
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I should have added (maybe) that I have bought that stuff before and it sucked dick. It seemed like mud/dirt. Specifically a yellow and red bag (iirc?) labeled "black kow" or whatever?
It reminds me of this garbage I bought at lowes once they called "soil" that was basically a mix of sand and clay. If you can call that soil I can call a bunch of beer cans and condom wrappers a floor.
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MushNoob589
Stranger



Registered: 10/16/17
Posts: 143
Loc: Oklahoma
Last seen: 4 years, 13 days
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: krypto2000]
#24919531 - 01/16/18 10:09 PM (7 years, 1 day ago) |
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I'm glad I've seen this zsure to save me trouble in the future!
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RockyB
A little more than newb



Registered: 11/30/17
Posts: 301
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: MushNoob589]
#24919761 - 01/17/18 01:04 AM (7 years, 1 day ago) |
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Second that. That was an uncommon, great bit of info to read.
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: krypto2000]
#24919840 - 01/17/18 03:07 AM (7 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: I should have added (maybe) that I have bought that stuff before and it sucked dick. It seemed like mud/dirt. Specifically a yellow and red bag (iirc?) labeled "black kow" or whatever?
It reminds me of this garbage I bought at lowes once they called "soil" that was basically a mix of sand and clay. If you can call that soil I can call a bunch of beer cans and condom wrappers a floor.
Lol i know exactly what ur talking about. That whitw and brown bag that says top soil. WORST DIRT EVER.
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FishLevelMidnight
Aquaman



Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 2,328
Last seen: 8 months, 14 days
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Re: Black Kow (Your experiences) Store Bought Cow Poo [Re: nube424]
#24919907 - 01/17/18 04:32 AM (7 years, 23 hours ago) |
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It might be due to my area but I’ve been using black now compost in all my cube grows thus far.
I use a mix of 1:1:1 verm (coarse):coir:black low and add ~7% gypsum (1 cup gypsum per 4 qt sub).
It does get a little muddy when at field capacity, but the verm and coir hold it together enough for a decent squeeze test.
There are usually fairly large rocks and woody matter in mine. I prefer to break it up by hand to remove them and clumps. I add my water to the verm/black kow/coir after its been mixed through.
I just made 12 Qt last night, pasteurizing today and spawning 5.5 qts mars on Thursday
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