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Global Warming and the Technological solution * 1
    #24913483 -

CO2 levels are going up and humans are responsible for it.

While the implications aren't clear, especially regarding time frames, it's worth pointing out that without some change CO2 ppm will continue to go up without any obvious ceiling. I'm skeptical of time frame implications, but it's reasonable to suggest we should mitigate our CO2 contribution due to the fact that the science isn't settled. Also due to that fact there should be at least some sense of urgency in that regard.

This is where things tend to get political, meaning to say, how forcefully should we be in our attempts to reduce CO2 output?

There are two paths to that end, and most people are only aware of one. To tax and legislate or not. IOW, looking at the extremes of the obvious path, to do nothing suggests there's no problem that needs to be fixed OR draconian measures are needed to curtail CO2 output. To that end, proposals that would halt CO2 increases haven't even be suggested. The most extreme measures would only slow the increase.

The other path? There is a problem that needs to be fixed but nothing should be done about it.

At least, not as a function of policy, unless of course the policy was to increase funding for alternative energy. But, it's not necessary. Why? Because human curiosity and the desire for profit will take care of the problem all by itself. I will lay out the case for why this is so and the time frame involved.

Despite my suggestion that government funding isn't necessary it wouldn't hurt. Whether it's an appropriate use of government funds is a different matter. One person might suggest that capable governments have an obligation to provide such funding and that the response in that regard has been pitiful, while another person might suggest the government has no business trying to do something it's not structured for and that while it wouldn't hurt, government's ability to accelerate the process is questionable.

ITER represents the funding that government has contributed. Planned to go online around 2025 it represents the most conventional approach to producing energy from fusion. Detractors of government funding will suggest that it's over budget, setbacks will likely push the date past 2025 and private corporations may end up beating them to the punch.

Meanwhile there are many companies working on fusion. The science is sound, it's just a matter of engineering solutions and funding. It seems likely to be that we'll see fusion generators producing energy in the next couple decades, and only a matter of decades beyond that before fusion plants are going up everywhere.

There are a variety of companies working on battery technology using alternate materials like carbon and sodium to replace lithium. It seems likely that in the next couple decades we'll see those products hitting the market. Batteries will be cheaper, will not require rare materials, will hold much more energy than current technology and can be recharged a practically unlimited number of times without degradation.

Between the advancement of those two technologies gas and coal will eventually be financial liabilities in an unregulated free market.

There are a variety of companies working on test tube meat. The media currently suggests that in the future cultured meat will be the poor man's meat while the rich continue to eat animals. However, it seems likely that eventually cultured meat will eventually be tastier and healthier than the real thing, and it seems likely that in the next couple decades we'll see widespread availability of such products. There may be a niche market for real meat, but for the most part raising animals for food will eventually be a poor decision in an unregulated free market.

I think most people regardless of their current stance will begin to frown on eating animals once there's an alternative that tastes better.

What about other technologies? I'm not a fan of wind and solar "farms" but I do like the idea of off grid energy and/or non-localized energy production. Solar energy technology, while still not ready to take over fossil fuels has consistently improved since it's introduction and will likely continue to improve. Initial costs will continue to go down and maintenance cost will go down. Solar farms will probably be a thing of the past but buildings and vehicles will be ideal surfaces for solar energy collection.

If the various governments of the world want a halt to CO2 and methane emissions all they have to do is get out of the way. If we rely only on the desire for profit and scientific curiosity it seems likely CO2 emissions will return to pre-industrial levels within the next 100-200 years. Furthermore, CO2 level increases as a percentage of current will begin to drop in the next 40-50 years and probably level off in a similar time frame.

I'm not going to provide links because it would take dozens of them to hint at the scope and variety of technologies that are being funded today, but I encourage you to do some research yourself. The information is easy to find with obvious search terms. Also, I considered posting this in the political forum. I think it's best served here, hope it doesn't get moved, but whatever.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #24913530 -

I put my faith in the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES :pope:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Icelander]
    #24913600 -

Trump will probably start so many armed conflicts that the human's available to consume and/or raise animals will drastically go down in numbers.

I hardly eat beef.  I don't think that animals are to blame totally for Co2.  We are steadily killing off life forms that convert co2 to 02.

co2 levels go up every winter as there is not a lot of gas exchange in the frozen part of the world.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #24913699 -

Hoping to not make this thread about politics or Trump.

Cows produce methane. The equivalent CO2 production will be about 4 tons per year for 1 cow in terms of how effective a greenhouse gas methane is. There are 1.5 billion cows, the vast majority of which are domestic. That's the equivalent of 6 billion tons of CO2 per year not to mention the vast tracts of land used to grow them becomes unavailable to many indigenous species. In that vein, the only thing stopping people from growing food underground or in skyscrapers is energy costs. In the future energy costs may be so cheap there will be no reason to grow any food on arable land. Eliminating land based food cultivation can return about 90% of human use land (over 40% of the Earth's land surface) back to nature. As a bonus, the majority of fresh water used by humans is used for farming. Growing hydroponically will cut our water use in half. Water in the air functions as a greenhouse gas. I don't have figures, but the vast majority of crop water is evaporated.

I've always been skeptical of global warming and still am in some regards. The phrase "the science is settled" doesn't relate to the entire philosophy of warming, just the idea that humans are causing half of it (which is debatable to some degree)... and the 97% figure the settled science is based on is debatable. Some scientists included in the figure have suggested their work was misinterpreted. The 97% figure itself suggests humans are responsible for at least 50% of temp rise. That means there's a consensus that humans have caused a .4 degree temp rise in the last 150 years. What isn't really up for debate is whether humans are increasing CO2 levels. It varies by season but goes up every year and there's no reasonable alternative for the human cause. The CO2 rise we see correlates with the amount of CO2 we're releasing into the atmosphere.

I for one see no reason to argue with that bit of the puzzle. I do have a problem with the fear mongering and politics involved with wealth distribution in the guise of saving the climate, but logically if the CO2 goes up every year and that never changes, eventually it will be a problem. Unless we discover a more complex chemistry that suggests natural mitigation it's smart to assume CO2 will continue to increase and that an unlimited CO2 increase will eventually have adverse effects. It's just simple logic, and while it might not be correct we should assume it is unless/until we can prove it's not.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #24913814 -

GOP doesn't believe in climate change so it's hard to avoid politics.

But no, science shouldn't be political and it always has been.  Stupid people cannot accept facts.  Lot's of stupid people out there.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24913859 -

ice ages are natural. C02 might mitigate some of the insuperable effects of such an ice age being impacted by C02 levels- flooding will occur. humanity will live on- but trauma will be sustained through inundation and pollution- but through this the realization of the continuance and futurity of life, due to our size, technological advancement, and population density, at this late stage in the game- capitalism, still, as it stands, is the betterment and improvement of abundance and freedom in the use of ATP and thus the realization of that, inevitably, will lead to the further advancement of mankind in terms of liberation, in the "seapunk", if you will; this will lead to a sort of Libertarian Paganism (especially with online communications, and the betterment of storage and memory technologies, of course mechanical and component tech will advance us into space, eventually, as a resource exigency arises-- the operation of looking into climatology won't stop anywhere, especially when one considers the trauma that'll occur-- but people will use the changes in the era to progress in human thought and the psyche- with strife concurrent of course, and the viruses of Revolutionary Fin de siècle thinking will continue to be conterminous with Anarchist thought in it's various forms, with this strife (and on various angles criminality, whether without ruler, or from a state, corporation, et al), and people will still continue to war in ideas and thought, so people will seek more and more composite material for their sketches, so to speak, but technologies will seek to weather us through the storm of the coming ice age, no matter the floods.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #24913864 -

PS: i keep telling people about India and their antediluvian convolution forgetting the constancy of human procreation and thusly Bovine procreation and activation of gases in the atmosphere, but that is about all i can do

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #24913922 -

It's really hard to know if we are the major contributor to global climate change. That's the bottom line imo. However the left makes everyone who won't toe the line into a monster when actually they make up most of the middle class which is directly or indirectly responsible for much of human made  pollution.  Funny how that works.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24914011 -

Morel Guy said:
GOP doesn't believe in climate change so it's hard to avoid politics.

But no, science shouldn't be political and it always has been.  Stupid people cannot accept facts.  Lot's of stupid people out there.


If by stupid you mean biased then I can agree with that. I think a lot of people in the GOP (and maybe just people in general) get turned off by the politicians who threaten doom and use science as a political tool. New York was supposed to be under water by now. That was predicted by a politician and proponent of the "science is settled" crowd. Even if people don't dig into the science for themselves they will eventually start to call bull shit regardless of what the truth is. The media doesn't seem to care much about making a distinction between science and political agenda either.

A lot of people do deny humans can cause climate change, but there are many on the right who understand it's more complicated than that... and that political agendas aren't always cut and dry. I suspect many people in professional politics and various industries understand technology will nullify greenhouse gas contributions over time, but it's still a good way to scare people into doing things they wouldn't normally do.

"We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy" -Ottmar Edenhofer


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24914021 -

akira_akuma said:
PS: i keep telling people about India and their antediluvian convolution forgetting the constancy of human procreation and thusly Bovine procreation and activation of gases in the atmosphere, but that is about all i can do


India is not a good place IMO. Thousands of years of spiritual practice has left the country in a shambles and has done nothing to limit violence against females.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24914035 -

akira_akuma said:
ice ages are natural. C02 might mitigate some of the insuperable effects of such an ice age being impacted by C02 levels- flooding will occur. humanity will live on- but trauma will be sustained through inundation and pollution- but through this the realization of the continuance and futurity of life, due to our size, technological advancement, and population density, at this late stage in the game- capitalism, still, as it stands, is the betterment and improvement of abundance and freedom in the use of ATP and thus the realization of that, inevitably, will lead to the further advancement of mankind in terms of liberation, in the "seapunk", if you will; this will lead to a sort of Libertarian Paganism (especially with online communications, and the betterment of storage and memory technologies, of course mechanical and component tech will advance us into space, eventually, as a resource exigency arises-- the operation of looking into climatology won't stop anywhere, especially when one considers the trauma that'll occur-- but people will use the changes in the era to progress in human thought and the psyche- with strife concurrent of course, and the viruses of Revolutionary Fin de siècle thinking will continue to be conterminous with Anarchist thought in it's various forms, with this strife (and on various angles criminality, whether without ruler, or from a state, corporation, et al), and people will still continue to war in ideas and thought, so people will seek more and more composite material for their sketches, so to speak, but technologies will seek to weather us through the storm of the coming ice age, no matter the floods.


If we survive all that I guess we'll be using solar reflectors to normalize surface radiation.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #24915164 -

can we use ice to freeze trump and his enormous gas issues.
like plop him into a locking shithole freezer with his stinking methane and bury the key.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #24915213 -

redgreenvines said:
can we use ice to freeze trump and his enormous gas issues.
like plop him into a locking shithole freezer with his stinking methane and bury the key.


Are you trying to turn this thread into a shithole?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #24915233 -

yeah, seriously, Trump is liked, when are fucking people going to gather in their heads that they are simply just wrong, or at least pumping out vapid thoughts alike the vapid media which has made them only interested in agenda politics inside the mainstream, and which only defames and propagandizes against outsiders to their operations, like those whom support Trump- a large female and male populace, some young and some old, and alot of them rich and alot of them poor, actually, and alot of them online doing their best to support their president (mostly because ANTIFA comes to try and stomp on any Trump supporters out in the streets- makes people wanna be more active...)

it just is really strange. people should be talking about how THINGS are fucked up...not just Trump. Trump has been the most weirdly good president in any inordinate amount of time, that is, in contemporary politics...the only president i think could compare is maybe a JFK.....

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24915244 -

that is astonishingly brilliant!
do you believe any of that?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24915253 -

i believe all of it. you are acting like some activated robot.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #24915282 -

nice post that gives me hope.. i dont really see how the private sector would just sort this out tho without government intervention. i mean businesses operate to make profit not to make the world better/more stable (?)


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: quinn]
    #24915367 -

quinn said:
nice post that gives me hope.. i dont really see how the private sector would just sort this out tho without government intervention. i mean businesses operate to make profit not to make the world better/more stable (?)


Making the world a better place is a nice sentiment and good PR but profit is the bottom line and that's why research is funded. There are billions of dollars in fusion technology.

A partial lists of companies/entities funding fusion technology: General Fusion, LLP Fusion, Helion Energy, LPPX, Sorlox, Tri Alpha Energy, Lockheed Martin, Google, LDX (MIT), NIF (USA), ITER (International), Lawrenceville Plasma Physics, etc.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24915871 -

GOP?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #24916664 -

akira_akuma said:
yeah, seriously, Trump is liked, when are fucking people going to gather in their heads that they are simply just wrong, or at least pumping out vapid thoughts alike the vapid media which has made them only interested in agenda politics inside the mainstream, and which only defames and propagandizes against outsiders to their operations, like those whom support Trump- a large female and male populace, some young and some old, and alot of them rich and alot of them poor, actually, and alot of them online doing their best to support their president (mostly because ANTIFA comes to try and stomp on any Trump supporters out in the streets- makes people wanna be more active...)

it just is really strange. people should be talking about how THINGS are fucked up...not just Trump. Trump has been the most weirdly good president in any inordinate amount of time, that is, in contemporary politics...the only president i think could compare is maybe a JFK.....



Trump is the right president at the right time. God Bless the USA. I'll always love Trump for calling the reporters "Fake News" on live camera. I laugh my ass off every time I remember that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (01/15/18 06:56 PM)

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Icelander]
    #24916677 -

he's just fine, he's no worse than anyone else, in fact, arguably better, even in his less idiosyncratic moments....

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #24916687 -

That's what I said to all my Hillary (the female Monster)  friends. Now they won't talk to me anymore. That's another benefit of having Trump as Prez.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (01/15/18 07:03 PM)

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Icelander]
    #24916753 -

I think it's really important to have someone who can at least pretend to be a good example at the top of the pyramid or we face a kind of social fragmentation that is worse than cancer.

there is no humility, no grace, no charm, no civility, no taste in the example trump presents.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24916834 -

The lesser of two evils is still evil. And evil will destroy the THE GREATEST NATION IN HISTORY, GOD BLESS THE UNITED SNAKES OF AMERICA. :pope:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25017879 -

The fight against "fake meat" has officially begun.

Update: The U.S. Cattleman's association has petitioned the USDA to create an official definition for meat and beef. I thought perhaps there was about to be some "clean meat" on the market but apparently it's in response to advancements in veggie burger technology, which supposedly is good enough to warrant being in the meat isle and people are having a more difficult time telling the difference. Maybe time to revisit the veggie burger. The last time I ate one was probably in the early 90's and they didn't taste good. There is mention of lab grown meat but only in passing.

"I think that clean meat and plant-based meat will make up the majority of meat purchases by 2050," said Almy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/23/the-fight-against-fake-meat-has-officially-begun.html


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25018209 -

getting soy into the meat will eradicate all those with peanut allergy which includes my wife: all legumes (incl soy) trigger the histamine response not just nuts.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25019570 -

That one can boil a frog by slowly turning up the heat, (if you have one in a pot, on the stove) is a myth; but it is a good metaphor for humans. In the case of US politicians the cliche is "kicking the can down the road" which comes up every so often, when they avoid issues, and use "band aids".

However it applies to the whole species, that people think climate warming is THE big issue, is just another example of avoiding, the fact that almost all 'civilized' human activity is detrimental to both quality of life for humans and the planet.

Someone coined the term 'nature deficit disorder'. Many folks actually want to live in cities, and in the future, say by  2060, most will. Meanwhile, the entire food supply has been compromised, with chemicals, and kids mature sexually at earlier ages, due to the hormones in milk. And estrogen related chemical pesticides monsanto uses. This is just one example of hundreds or thousands. And folks think the future maybe difficult while blind to the horrors constantly being created.

Considering this idea " A bodhisattva wishes to help all beings attain nirvana. He must therefore refuse to enter nirvana himself, as he cannot apparently render any services to the living beings of the worlds after his own nirvana. He thus finds himself in the rather illogical position of pointing the way to nirvana for other beings, while he himself stays in this world of suffering in order to do good to all creatures. This is his great sacrifice for others. He has taken the great Vow: "I shall not enter into final nirvana before all beings have been liberated." He does not realize the highest liberation for himself, as he cannot abandon other beings to their fate. He has said: "I must lead all beings to liberation. I will stay here till the end, even for the sake of one living soul."

Perhaps a key point, in regards to the current topic, in the above quote, is the phrase; "this world of suffering". This is what we all want to deny, otherwise how could people have kids if they truly understood this? Yet if one understands this that humans are ruining the earth, torturing each other, constantly having wars, and constant victims of greed, and fear, this is not so surprising. Behind the facade of the pursuit of pleasure, acquiring security, and normalcy,  raw egotism rules, as shown in the novel: Lord of the Flies by William Golding and many other novels.

What is different now is simply the population density, and the fact that it is now time for 'payback'. And imagination would seem to indicate it won't be pretty.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: laughingdog]
    #25019704 -

Excellent post.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: laughingdog]
    #25024429 -

laughingdog said:
that people think climate warming is THE big issue is just another example of avoiding the fact that almost all 'civilized' human activity is detrimental to both quality of life for humans and the planet.



I've commented on land use and pollution before. There are a lot of people who think warming is not the problem or is part of a larger problem. Global warming per the title of the thread is a provocative take on how the agenda is pushed but this thread is really about any future technology that can mitigate pollution and land requirements. Technology in this age also results in near zero to negative population growth so perhaps you are being too hard on it. If the whole world was civilized there would be no population growth. People could choose to have one or two kids and the population would still naturally decline.

Of course, the real issue is the nature of humanity but this thread wasn't intended to address it directly, rather to suggest that technology may veer in good directions despite our nature, predicated on the idea that there is an interest in these types of technology intellectually, financially and emotionally/subjectively, and that such technologies can be discovered and advanced.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25032990 -

kellyon said:
Not so long ago I read that air pollution rising at an 'alarming rate' in world's cities. It seems that environmental protection is a serious issue today. I think recycling is important, a lot of the original production of raw materials has a large environmental impact. But many recycling processes produce less pollution than original production would. In Auckland I use Mobile Screening & Crushing service for recycling. They have competitive prices and I can always relay on thir help. I'm sure each of us, individually, can do something to prevent and reduce pollution in air, water and our land.


Thanks for the feedback. I think all those efforts are worthwhile as they buy some time, but insufficient to prevent a permanent regression.

Almost entirely a guess but we probably have 150-200 years to "save the planet" before it saves itself. There are certain technologies that need to happen to prevent a permanent collapse of modern civilization due to lack of resources... but it's difficult to say what the nature of the collapse would be. For instance, most people don't know about peak phosphorus. Non food crop cultivation has experienced a reduction in recommended phosphorus rates, partly because of pollution but also because we're using phosphorus faster than we are finding it. If fertilizer availability became a primary issue before energy resources then the world might experience a dramatic and permanent population drop while our ability to use cheap energy to advance technology would remain. If crop density returns to pre-industrial times the world would only support maybe 2 billion people, which would give us a wider window to advance nuclear energy.

Then again, if we start mining asteroids prior to the fertilizer crisis we'll have plenty of phosphorus. Like I mentioned in the OP, I suspect we'll have the energy issue worked out in the next 50 years or so. Widespread fusion would eliminate cost as a primary concern, so for instance we could focus our recycling efforts without concern of cost. We could mine asteroids without concern of cost and quit mining the Earth. We could desalinate water without concern of cost, or retrieve it from space. There's almost nothing we couldn't do with free energy. That is why to a large degree everything hinges on energy production and storage technology.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25043897 -

Here's something interesting regarding fusion. First is a video from PBS on the state of the art. Steve Dean mentions thinking he would see fusion on the grid within his lifetime. Toward the end of the video he mentions thinking it is an eventuality but for his children or grandchildren. Other vocal individuals in the field are predicting 20 years. There is reason to think these time frames are within the realm of possibility.



The pic below represents individuals and papers released at the IAEA energy conference yearly. Number of participants could be normalized but number of papers without modification looks like the first half of an exponential curve. A lot of other areas of scientific interest are similar. Some of the recent advancements at various reactors have been fine tuned by AI software to optimize performance. As AI and computing power improve, it's contribution to science will increase.



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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25051064 -

The ability to produce net power depends on how hot and how dense the plasma is. ITER is based on the principal of producing a 1:10 power ratio. To do this their tokamak requires 840 cubic meters of plasma. Scientists at Lockheed Martin believe they can shrink this down by a factor of 20, enough to contain the plasma in the space of a shipping container. This would allow fusion to power planes and trains among other things. The only minor drawback is that the power ratio is reduced to 1:5. you can read about it here: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/compact-fusion.html One of the advantages to this compact (non-toroidal) design is that it can be built in about a year, tested and rebuilt in yearly cycles. If you don't care for the link (which contains more info) you can watch this well produced video about it.



But that's not all. Researchers at MIT have advanced superconducting materials to produce magnets able to contain plasma at densities smaller than even the Lockheed Martin design, 1/64th the volume of ITER. Again the downside to such a small design is the power ratio which would be 1:2 but even a 1:2 ratio would be net positive and use hydrogen for the fusion process, and again the size allows for quick production cycles. Professor Wilson predicts having fusion on the grid within 15 years. We can add Commonwealth Fusion Systems to the list of private companies racing to beat ITER to market. Who will be first? Will ITER be obsolete before it's ever on the grid? Will it be viewed, even in success, as a waste of public funds? Or will it be viewed as the project that spurred on the competition?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/09/nuclear-fusion-on-brink-of-being-realised-say-mit-scientists

Energy production and storage are the only major hurdles to curtailing all forms of pollution. Desalinization and water treatment plants require large amounts of power. Herbicides and pesticides can eventually be replaced with robots once AI is able to distinguish crops from weeds and invasive insects from beneficial. Compact battery technology can replace all forms of combustion. Even the lowly lithium-ion battery is taking the power tool industry by storm. Long used in hand held drills, they're now top sellers for string trimmers, edgers, leaf blowers, and quickly edging up the market for mowers, chain saws, and eventually all small engines, which are heavy polluters because they are not required to have catalytic converters.

Also... carbon based batteries will be a reality. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/09/look-no-lithium-first-rechargeable-proton-battery-created


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Edited by Rahz (03/09/18 05:11 AM)

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25051321 -

great bunch of articles - thanks


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25051360 -

Oh guys. Sorry to point out your obvious oversights.. But... Hemp could fix all these energy problems.. All these carbon issues, energy, food.. Like immediately could fix these problems. Every argument against could be considered ignorant brainwashed bullshit, intentional or not. Lol.

Why not give the power back to the farmers? Would it be that bad to incentivize farming? Independence is better than tariffs. Talking about hemp irritates people, it makes the other arguments just noise..

And the lab meat thing is super promising and might be better accepted than the highly efficient and potentially nutritious cricket as a food source.

To even try to fusion/fission is insanity and unnecessary.

Fuck soy, add hemp to our food. Yeah back to that. We really need to have that much artificial estrogen in our food supply? For why?

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Pyroboy4206]
    #25051576 -

Soy is a huge problem for me, because my wife is allergic to peanuts tree nuts etc, and legumes are included and soy is in everything these days.
Soy exposure can cause death in 20 minutes.
It even gets in the air - i.e. it is an airborn allergen, like nuts, so no nuts are allowed in the room with us.

Not sure but maybe hemp could replace soy, She is not allergic to it at all, but hemp won't make cars and planes fly without adding to the carbon based global warming problems.

fusion opportunities are anything but ignorant.


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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25051577 -

We had many cold and warm periods on this planet.
We are not even out of the ice-age yet.
The next warm period is defined as when the poles are molten (again).
:sun:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25051581 -

How to green the worlds deserts and reverse climate change

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Pyroboy4206]
    #25051601 -

Glad you are for clean meat. There are recent advancements in this field which I will address here eventually. I'm not big on soy myself.

Pyroboy4206 said:
To even try to fusion/fission is insanity and unnecessary.



Fusion isn't as dirty as fission. It's true that radioactive particles are created but they can be fed back into the fuel system so it can't be considered a waste product. Additionally the byproduct has a half life of only 12 years, not to mention the production of radioactive particles stops if the system fails. Even if this weren't the case the largest reactor being built (ITER) will use about 1 gram of fuel at any given moment of which only a small percentage is in radioactive form at a given point in time. Laser based systems which likely will also advance beyond proof of concept use a small percentage of a gram at a given time. In the event of a failure we already have the technology to clean a fusion site safely. Once we can produce temperatures high enough the fuel will be radioactive free except for a brief existence inside the reactor where it will be burned as it's created. Maybe you haven't revisited the issue recently but it doesn't seem crazy to me.

While hemp could be used to replace other forms of energy it still takes land. Hemp could provide all our energy needs, but what if we want to use 10 times as much? or 100 times as much? If there was no promise for nuclear energy I would be more keen on it, but would prefer to see as much land as possible returned to nature, one of the primary reasons I'm in favor of fusion. While we're waiting on fusion I would be glad to see the hemp industry gear up... but when fusion becomes serious competition the bio-fuel industry will eventually shrink and disappear. I don't think bio-fuel should be artificially expensive due to silly laws, but I also wouldn't want to prop up the bio-fuel industry when there's a better alternative.

There's a related topic involving the usefulness of money and labor in a post-fusion world. I haven't mentioned it because I'd like to restrict my part in this thread to the main topic unless it comes up, but you have touched on it with your comment on giving power back to farmers. It's a tricky subject, difficult to see into that future, but I like to think there will be solutions.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25051604 -

BlueCoyote said:
We had many cold and warm periods on this planet.
We are not even out of the ice-age yet.
The next warm period is defined as when the poles are molten (again).
:sun:


Everything I've read indicates we're in-between glacial periods and are overdue for another 60-80,000 year glacial period. Can you provide more information on that?


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25051611 -

redgreenvines said:
Soy is a huge problem for me, because my wife is allergic to peanuts tree nuts etc, and legumes are included and soy is in everything these days.
Soy exposure can cause death in 20 minutes.
It even gets in the air - i.e. it is an airborn allergen, like nuts, so no nuts are allowed in the room with us.

Not sure but maybe hemp could replace soy, She is not allergic to it at all, but hemp won't make cars and planes fly without adding to the carbon based global warming problems.

fusion opportunities are anything but ignorant.


that isn't true, biofuels are carbon-neutral.  Plants build biomass out of atmospheric CO2.  Fossil carbon is the problem

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #25051710 -

ballsalsa said:
How to green the worlds deserts and reverse climate change



Thanks for that. Contradictory and convincing. What would perhaps be better than that would be to reintroduce native species and let it be... but that's a minor issue in light of the point of the video. Cheers.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25051756 -

ballsalsa said:
redgreenvines said:
....


that isn't true, biofuels are carbon-neutral.  Plants build biomass out of atmospheric CO2.  Fossil carbon is the problem


that's kind of cool, but they are better for the environment and GW if they don't get burned at all.

and as Rahz has clarified, fusion is basically non-polluting altogether, and the challenge it raises will be social: what to do with the disenfranchised masses when there is no need for slavery, or wage slavery.

My vote is expand all cities into universities.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25052848 -

you'd have to. education is the beginning...we'd need teachers, social workers, lots of loving people.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25053739 -

also the best psychedelics! music! art! cafes!


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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25055574 -

Rahz said:
BlueCoyote said:
We had many cold and warm periods on this planet.
We are not even out of the ice-age yet.
The next warm period is defined as when the poles are molten (again).
:sun:


Everything I've read indicates we're in-between glacial periods and are overdue for another 60-80,000 year glacial period. Can you provide more information on that?


It is on the german wikipedia on ice age. I can't find it that explict in the english version.
Here's a graph showing the situation:



Sorry for the bad quality, here's the original link:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Erdgeschichte.svg/530px-Erdgeschichte.svg.png

The top graph is humidity, the down graph is temperature.
The red zone is that what's called warm-time. It says 'free of ice'. The blue zone is the ice-age zone. The scaling is 1 billion of years.
You see, we are at the end of the graph and still very deep in the cold age.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25055749 -

Thank you. It seems we are both right. It seems likely (unless AGW changes things) that there will be more glaciation and eventually another warm period.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25055759 -

Understanding those prehistoric cycles better makes some sense but slowing global warming now and over the next 20 years means a lot for future generations even with the understanding we already have.

The prehistoric chart does not speak for itself regardless of language, since we do not have a full picture of what caused what effects in prehistoric times which are charted.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25055942 -

True.
I'm no geoprehistorician, but I guess for each ice-age and warm-period they had their names... We could look up the causes, if they are known..
I could imagine that the last ones had to do with co2 or other climatic-gasses as well...

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25056474 -

volcanoes, meteors, lotsa things only partly inferred by the evidence.


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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25310828 -

redgreenvines said:
Understanding those prehistoric cycles better makes some sense but slowing global warming now and over the next 20 years means a lot for future generations even with the understanding we already have.

The prehistoric chart does not speak for itself regardless of language, since we do not have a full picture of what caused what effects in prehistoric times which are charted.


The key is in being in control of it rather than just emitting it so that we can cap it off at a desirable level and then keep it there with periodic release. That level might be 280, or 400, or a number between current levels and 1500. This is a more sound reason for developing the technology to leave CO2 emitters behind as a primary energy source. Less than 150 ppm is lethal for humans. 280 seems to be getting low, the result of a 140 million year decline and an anomaly for Earths history. The only comparable period would be late Carboniferous (600 ppm CO2) 250-300 million years ago. Coming out of that Ice Age the CO2 levels increased but would never again reach pre-Carboniferous levels so it's difficult to suggest the current Ice Age alone is a primary cause for record low CO2. There is simply less available CO2 now than at any point in the past.

If humanity continues and technology advances we will one day have to address the issue of needing to add CO2 to the atmosphere to prevent an irrecoverable ELE taking place long before Solar radiation makes the Earth uninhabitable. Beyond that, depending on various factors, it's difficult to say what the best ppm to maintain is. I don't rule out the possibility of ice caps at 1500 ppm. We've had them before at much higher levels.

So, maybe you/the audience suspect 1500 ppm would be too hot but another concern is that at the current and unmitigated rate of increase many plants may not be able to adjust quickly enough to survive as we pass beyond the 1500 mark. This too could be a contentious topic, but regardless of one's viewpoint on AGW or the adaptability of plant life, I think it's smart for a variety of reasons to develop the technologies I've brought up.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25311022 -

Here is a study that looks at the corrrelation between atmospheric CO2 and climate throughout Earth's geological history. They found no evidence that CO2 is linked to climate. In their words:
http://www.pnas.org/content/99/7/4167
It is therefore interesting to ask what, if any, correspondence exists between ancient climate and the estimate of pCO2 in Fig. 4. The gray bars at the top of Fig. 4 correspond to the periods when the global climate was cool; the intervening white space corresponds to the warm modes (18). The most recent cool period corresponds to relatively low CO2 levels, as is widely expected (30). However, no correspondence between pCO2 and climate is evident in the remainder of the record, in part because the apparent 100 My cycle of the pCO2 record does not match the longer climatic cycle. The lack of correlation remains if one calculates the change in average global surface temperature resulting from changes in pCO2 and the solar constant using energy-balance arguments

Rahz, I read that you don't want this thread to be political but also that you think it should be more about restricting human activities for political reasons than for whether or not CO2 is of importance to the climate. That is a bit confusing to me.

In studying maximum yield for indoor plant cultivation I came across the use of CO2 as a nutrient that increases plant growth when artificially increased in the plants atmosphere. CO2 is a limiting nutrient at the natural atmospheric level. Looking at the geologic scale and their CO2 levels, it appears that CO2 is so low that we are at crisis levels. For the environment, we should all be burning as much fossil fuel as we can afford.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: PanCog]
    #25311088 -

:mmmkay:

More CO2 can lead to more plant growth but less nutrition density.

Just sayin, there's more to increased CO2 levels than plant growth.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: PanCog]
    #25311114 -

quoting form your link:
Quote:
The resulting CO2 signal exhibits no systematic correspondence with the geologic record of climatic variations at tectonic time scales.


tectonic time scales refers to millions of years.

please refrain from that type of logic (ignoring the difference between millions and hundreds of years) as relates to our overheated lives now and what happens to climate in the next few generations  affected by the logic and language of people who lack understanding of time and physics and chemistry in general.

meaning changes according to scale.


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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: PanCog]
    #25311447 -

PanCog said:
Rahz, I read that you don't want this thread to be political but also that you think it should be more about restricting human activities for political reasons than for whether or not CO2 is of importance to the climate. That is a bit confusing to me.

In studying maximum yield for indoor plant cultivation I came across the use of CO2 as a nutrient that increases plant growth when artificially increased in the plants atmosphere. CO2 is a limiting nutrient at the natural atmospheric level. Looking at the geologic scale and their CO2 levels, it appears that CO2 is so low that we are at crisis levels. For the environment, we should all be burning as much fossil fuel as we can afford.


Even if there's not a strong correlation between temperature and CO2 levels in the real world there are other reasons why pushing CO2 could be bad in theory. What's disconcerting is our lack of knowledge. I think it would be wise to be (able to be) carbon neutral as a function of energy production, but for various reasons it's bad policy to use draconian measures to get there. The whole point of this thread is to suggest it will happen regardless of policy/politics.

As far as that goes, I'd like people to feel free to use all the energy they'd like. All the water they'd like. I'm a fan of wildlife and would like to see it preserved and if possible return large areas to the wild without impacting the human population. Clean limitless energy has the potential to do this. I think everyone would be in favor of it so it's not a political issue.

Plants will generally produce 12-25% more mass at 1500 ppm. With proper fertilization this could be a good thing and potentially reduce the farming footprint, though going vertical or underground has a much greater potential for doing that. So maybe increased CO2 levels would be good for farming and plants in general. Maybe a corresponding increase in oxygen concentration would be good for humans and all O2 breathers. Burning fossil fuel to raise the CO2 level might be a net positive up to that point, but if we can't put the breaks on it could end up being a problem. Being in control of CO2 emissions is a good idea. Once that happens and there is no longer a political incentive in the scientific field, we can without bias leisurely inspect the issue of what the best CO2 ppm is.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25316151 -

Looking at the short time scale as redgreenvines suggests, I don't see any convincing evidence that it is harmful. The Atmosphere is large, their is higher CO2 levels in my house than outside. Are you suggesting that the CO2 levels in my house contribute to it being easier to warm?
Looking at the geological scale, I see a massive loss of a important biological resource. Think of landfills versus recycling. Carbon trapped underground is useless to life. Photosynthesis is the source of most all life on this planet. Plants and life evolved with concentrations significantly higher than they are now. Plants today are small weak and struggling to grow. With a slight increase in CO2 they show a noticeable difference in growth. At currents levels they are suffocating. I really do think it is a good idea to recycle the carbon trapped in nature's landfills.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: PanCog]
    #25316425 -

Quote:
I don't see any convincing evidence that it's harmful.


And that means it's not harmful? Or you don't know? Me personally, I don't know. I do believe the CO2 issue is politicized and monetized and proposed measures don't have a meaningful impact on the rate of increase anyway. None of that means "whatever" CO2 level is okay. Them being wrong doesn't make you right.

Quote:
Are you suggesting that the CO2 levels in my house contribute to it being easier to warm?


I'm not sure how CO2 affects your houses warming potential, but your house is not the atmosphere. Such analogies and/or experiments from either side of the debate is propaganda.

Quote:
I see a massive loss of a important biological resource.


Except it's not lost. It's right there for humans to use at any time.

Quote:
Plants today are small weak and struggling to grow. With a slight increase in CO2 they show a noticeable difference in growth. At currents levels they are suffocating.


I do suspect Earth was on it's way to carbon death, but it's a slow process. Without human assisted carbon release life would continue much as it has for hundreds of thousands of years, if not several million or more. That's cutting it close as far as the life of Earth is concerned, but it's absolutely a huge margin when compared to the progress of science.

Quote:
I really do think it is a good idea to recycle the carbon trapped in nature's landfills.


It's desirable for a variety of reasons for energy production to produce no byproducts. If we need more CO2 in the air then CO2 should be the product, not a byproduct. We have a good idea of what the minimum and maximum CO2 levels in regard to plant growth are but we don't know what side effects the upper limits might cause. Neither you nor me nor Al Gore understand what will happen at 1500 ppm. Anyone who says they do must be from the future.

Furthermore, you haven't offered any solution to halting CO2 release beyond 1500 ppm.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #27901651 -

https://www.newsweek.com/nuclear-fusion-energy-milestone-ignition-confirmed-california-1733238

Ignition was achieved in 2021!

This is just a step but it's a big one. It's not even something they've been able to repeat so far but ignition is no longer a theory. It has been a solid theory... ITER counts on it working but it's now a fact.

It's big news.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #27901699 -

thanks for digging ups some good news,
Now all we need is general dynamics to make some fusion dogs to go replant the forests in brazil and turn our cities into gardens.

but we have to crawl through a political quagmire and endless epidemic until then


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27901782 -

Yes, it will be too late before people put two and two together. Increasing weather disasters and pandemics to come.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27902540 -

I think Canada would benefit from global warming..

Less harshness in Winter.. also better general feeling outside..


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Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27902670 -

BrendanFlock said:
I think Canada would benefit from global warming..

Less harshness in Winter.. also better general feeling outside..


except it is not working out like that
we are getting extreme weather
worse storms
many heat warnings
giant hail stones
forest fires
habitat loss
etc.


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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #27902789 -

BrendanFlock said:
I think Canada would benefit from global warming..

Less harshness in Winter.. also better general feeling outside..


Yeah, I'm sure Canada will enjoy the mass migration from the equator that comes with it, too.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27902813 -

Canada is pretty strict about migration, and probably concerned with invasion.

At any rate, most Canadians live close to the U.S. border, which will probably change with increased warming.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #27903440 -

Rahz said:
https://www.newsweek.com/nuclear-fusion-energy-milestone-ignition-confirmed-california-1733238

Ignition was achieved in 2021!

This is just a step but it's a big one. It's not even something they've been able to repeat so far but ignition is no longer a theory. It has been a solid theory... ITER counts on it working but it's now a fact.

It's big news.




Is hydrogen then potentially a fuel for propulsion, inter-orbital propulsion?

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #27903442 -

Yeah, specific isotopes of it potentially are.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27903454 -

First there will be prospectors for gold in the asteroids, then there will be ads for real estate. Ha ha = helium  product.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #27903484 -

An asteroid with significant hydrogen reserves could be used as a vehicle.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #27903529 -

That's unlikely except as frozen methane or some such. Asteroids don't have enough mass to hold an atmosphere.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #28687180 -

https://interestingengineering.com/energy/new-superconducting-magnets-ready-for-fusion-reactions-say-scientists


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #28687315 -

we'll, they'd better be.  :oldman:

srsly though...

*crosses fingers*


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28687324 -

when is that spark coming on line?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28687334 -

if you mean viable? like powering our houses and whatnot?
25-50 more years, id venture.  :lol:
(^ *uneducated guesstimate* :sad:)



--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28687355 -

There's two technological solutions that could potentially work on a short enough time scale to avoid catastrophe:

1. Infertility bombs that massively reduce birth rates

2. Particulates shot into the upper atmosphere that force cooling

Both would involve massive disruption, destruction, and death, just as most large-scale engineering projects do.

Otherwise, we need a sea change in the way that the global economy works. We may get it regardless, if/when first world countries collapse in the face of climate crises.

As long as there are still idiots saying "we don't know how much humans are contributing to climate change, this is just a leftist trope being used to control us," I don't hold out much hope for conventional policy changes and technical solutions. I mean, for fuck's sake, humanity had the technical ability to contain and eliminate an emerging disease for the first time ever, and we failed. Just because too many people said "nah, fuck all that."

Make no mistake, though, the planet can't handle this many humans. Our population will plummet one way or another. If we can't do it by lowering birth rates, then Gaia will resort to her own methods.


--------------------
ACAB

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28687465 -

How many humans can the planet handle? Please be specific and cite sources for your number.

At what PPM of CO2 in the atmosphere will there be a catastrophe? Please be specific and cite your source.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #28790510 -

Battery technology news. Density, cost and lifespan are the big three in battery technology.

A Chinese company is already producing car batteries with million mile warranties. The article didn't mention range so I'm guessing it wasn't out of the ordinary.

A different article on them describes a new type of higher density cell they're going to manufacture with a potential 1000km range.

Two different batteries I think, so they don't make one yet with both 1000km range and million mile warranty, but it's still impressive.

There was also mention of 50% reduction in cost, though not mentioning a specific technology. The higher density cells are lithium but also use iron and phosphate, potentially lowering production cost.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #28790519 -

I get a charge out of that kind of news


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #28790677 -

I get skeptical hearing a million mile warranty from a Chinese ev company.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28790852 -

I just realized I didn't mention the name, sorry about that. CATL. It's the largest battery maker in China. Almost zero loss of capacity over 1000 charges. The actual warranty is 1.5 million kilometers or 15 years.

https://electrek.co/2024/04/03/catl-launches-new-ev-battery-last-1-million-miles-15-yrs/


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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