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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Icelander]
    #24916677 -

he's just fine, he's no worse than anyone else, in fact, arguably better, even in his less idiosyncratic moments....

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #24916687 -

That's what I said to all my Hillary (the female Monster)  friends. Now they won't talk to me anymore. That's another benefit of having Trump as Prez.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (01/15/18 07:03 PM)

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Icelander]
    #24916753 -

I think it's really important to have someone who can at least pretend to be a good example at the top of the pyramid or we face a kind of social fragmentation that is worse than cancer.

there is no humility, no grace, no charm, no civility, no taste in the example trump presents.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24916834 -

The lesser of two evils is still evil. And evil will destroy the THE GREATEST NATION IN HISTORY, GOD BLESS THE UNITED SNAKES OF AMERICA. :pope:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25017879 -

The fight against "fake meat" has officially begun.

Update: The U.S. Cattleman's association has petitioned the USDA to create an official definition for meat and beef. I thought perhaps there was about to be some "clean meat" on the market but apparently it's in response to advancements in veggie burger technology, which supposedly is good enough to warrant being in the meat isle and people are having a more difficult time telling the difference. Maybe time to revisit the veggie burger. The last time I ate one was probably in the early 90's and they didn't taste good. There is mention of lab grown meat but only in passing.

"I think that clean meat and plant-based meat will make up the majority of meat purchases by 2050," said Almy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/23/the-fight-against-fake-meat-has-officially-begun.html


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25018209 -

getting soy into the meat will eradicate all those with peanut allergy which includes my wife: all legumes (incl soy) trigger the histamine response not just nuts.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25019570 -

That one can boil a frog by slowly turning up the heat, (if you have one in a pot, on the stove) is a myth; but it is a good metaphor for humans. In the case of US politicians the cliche is "kicking the can down the road" which comes up every so often, when they avoid issues, and use "band aids".

However it applies to the whole species, that people think climate warming is THE big issue, is just another example of avoiding, the fact that almost all 'civilized' human activity is detrimental to both quality of life for humans and the planet.

Someone coined the term 'nature deficit disorder'. Many folks actually want to live in cities, and in the future, say by  2060, most will. Meanwhile, the entire food supply has been compromised, with chemicals, and kids mature sexually at earlier ages, due to the hormones in milk. And estrogen related chemical pesticides monsanto uses. This is just one example of hundreds or thousands. And folks think the future maybe difficult while blind to the horrors constantly being created.

Considering this idea " A bodhisattva wishes to help all beings attain nirvana. He must therefore refuse to enter nirvana himself, as he cannot apparently render any services to the living beings of the worlds after his own nirvana. He thus finds himself in the rather illogical position of pointing the way to nirvana for other beings, while he himself stays in this world of suffering in order to do good to all creatures. This is his great sacrifice for others. He has taken the great Vow: "I shall not enter into final nirvana before all beings have been liberated." He does not realize the highest liberation for himself, as he cannot abandon other beings to their fate. He has said: "I must lead all beings to liberation. I will stay here till the end, even for the sake of one living soul."

Perhaps a key point, in regards to the current topic, in the above quote, is the phrase; "this world of suffering". This is what we all want to deny, otherwise how could people have kids if they truly understood this? Yet if one understands this that humans are ruining the earth, torturing each other, constantly having wars, and constant victims of greed, and fear, this is not so surprising. Behind the facade of the pursuit of pleasure, acquiring security, and normalcy,  raw egotism rules, as shown in the novel: Lord of the Flies by William Golding and many other novels.

What is different now is simply the population density, and the fact that it is now time for 'payback'. And imagination would seem to indicate it won't be pretty.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: laughingdog]
    #25019704 -

Excellent post.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: laughingdog]
    #25024429 -

laughingdog said:
that people think climate warming is THE big issue is just another example of avoiding the fact that almost all 'civilized' human activity is detrimental to both quality of life for humans and the planet.



I've commented on land use and pollution before. There are a lot of people who think warming is not the problem or is part of a larger problem. Global warming per the title of the thread is a provocative take on how the agenda is pushed but this thread is really about any future technology that can mitigate pollution and land requirements. Technology in this age also results in near zero to negative population growth so perhaps you are being too hard on it. If the whole world was civilized there would be no population growth. People could choose to have one or two kids and the population would still naturally decline.

Of course, the real issue is the nature of humanity but this thread wasn't intended to address it directly, rather to suggest that technology may veer in good directions despite our nature, predicated on the idea that there is an interest in these types of technology intellectually, financially and emotionally/subjectively, and that such technologies can be discovered and advanced.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25032990 -

kellyon said:
Not so long ago I read that air pollution rising at an 'alarming rate' in world's cities. It seems that environmental protection is a serious issue today. I think recycling is important, a lot of the original production of raw materials has a large environmental impact. But many recycling processes produce less pollution than original production would. In Auckland I use Mobile Screening & Crushing service for recycling. They have competitive prices and I can always relay on thir help. I'm sure each of us, individually, can do something to prevent and reduce pollution in air, water and our land.


Thanks for the feedback. I think all those efforts are worthwhile as they buy some time, but insufficient to prevent a permanent regression.

Almost entirely a guess but we probably have 150-200 years to "save the planet" before it saves itself. There are certain technologies that need to happen to prevent a permanent collapse of modern civilization due to lack of resources... but it's difficult to say what the nature of the collapse would be. For instance, most people don't know about peak phosphorus. Non food crop cultivation has experienced a reduction in recommended phosphorus rates, partly because of pollution but also because we're using phosphorus faster than we are finding it. If fertilizer availability became a primary issue before energy resources then the world might experience a dramatic and permanent population drop while our ability to use cheap energy to advance technology would remain. If crop density returns to pre-industrial times the world would only support maybe 2 billion people, which would give us a wider window to advance nuclear energy.

Then again, if we start mining asteroids prior to the fertilizer crisis we'll have plenty of phosphorus. Like I mentioned in the OP, I suspect we'll have the energy issue worked out in the next 50 years or so. Widespread fusion would eliminate cost as a primary concern, so for instance we could focus our recycling efforts without concern of cost. We could mine asteroids without concern of cost and quit mining the Earth. We could desalinate water without concern of cost, or retrieve it from space. There's almost nothing we couldn't do with free energy. That is why to a large degree everything hinges on energy production and storage technology.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25043897 -

Here's something interesting regarding fusion. First is a video from PBS on the state of the art. Steve Dean mentions thinking he would see fusion on the grid within his lifetime. Toward the end of the video he mentions thinking it is an eventuality but for his children or grandchildren. Other vocal individuals in the field are predicting 20 years. There is reason to think these time frames are within the realm of possibility.



The pic below represents individuals and papers released at the IAEA energy conference yearly. Number of participants could be normalized but number of papers without modification looks like the first half of an exponential curve. A lot of other areas of scientific interest are similar. Some of the recent advancements at various reactors have been fine tuned by AI software to optimize performance. As AI and computing power improve, it's contribution to science will increase.



--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25051064 -

The ability to produce net power depends on how hot and how dense the plasma is. ITER is based on the principal of producing a 1:10 power ratio. To do this their tokamak requires 840 cubic meters of plasma. Scientists at Lockheed Martin believe they can shrink this down by a factor of 20, enough to contain the plasma in the space of a shipping container. This would allow fusion to power planes and trains among other things. The only minor drawback is that the power ratio is reduced to 1:5. you can read about it here: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/compact-fusion.html One of the advantages to this compact (non-toroidal) design is that it can be built in about a year, tested and rebuilt in yearly cycles. If you don't care for the link (which contains more info) you can watch this well produced video about it.



But that's not all. Researchers at MIT have advanced superconducting materials to produce magnets able to contain plasma at densities smaller than even the Lockheed Martin design, 1/64th the volume of ITER. Again the downside to such a small design is the power ratio which would be 1:2 but even a 1:2 ratio would be net positive and use hydrogen for the fusion process, and again the size allows for quick production cycles. Professor Wilson predicts having fusion on the grid within 15 years. We can add Commonwealth Fusion Systems to the list of private companies racing to beat ITER to market. Who will be first? Will ITER be obsolete before it's ever on the grid? Will it be viewed, even in success, as a waste of public funds? Or will it be viewed as the project that spurred on the competition?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/09/nuclear-fusion-on-brink-of-being-realised-say-mit-scientists

Energy production and storage are the only major hurdles to curtailing all forms of pollution. Desalinization and water treatment plants require large amounts of power. Herbicides and pesticides can eventually be replaced with robots once AI is able to distinguish crops from weeds and invasive insects from beneficial. Compact battery technology can replace all forms of combustion. Even the lowly lithium-ion battery is taking the power tool industry by storm. Long used in hand held drills, they're now top sellers for string trimmers, edgers, leaf blowers, and quickly edging up the market for mowers, chain saws, and eventually all small engines, which are heavy polluters because they are not required to have catalytic converters.

Also... carbon based batteries will be a reality. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/09/look-no-lithium-first-rechargeable-proton-battery-created


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Edited by Rahz (03/09/18 05:11 AM)

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25051321 -

great bunch of articles - thanks


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25051360 -

Oh guys. Sorry to point out your obvious oversights.. But... Hemp could fix all these energy problems.. All these carbon issues, energy, food.. Like immediately could fix these problems. Every argument against could be considered ignorant brainwashed bullshit, intentional or not. Lol.

Why not give the power back to the farmers? Would it be that bad to incentivize farming? Independence is better than tariffs. Talking about hemp irritates people, it makes the other arguments just noise..

And the lab meat thing is super promising and might be better accepted than the highly efficient and potentially nutritious cricket as a food source.

To even try to fusion/fission is insanity and unnecessary.

Fuck soy, add hemp to our food. Yeah back to that. We really need to have that much artificial estrogen in our food supply? For why?

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Pyroboy4206]
    #25051576 -

Soy is a huge problem for me, because my wife is allergic to peanuts tree nuts etc, and legumes are included and soy is in everything these days.
Soy exposure can cause death in 20 minutes.
It even gets in the air - i.e. it is an airborn allergen, like nuts, so no nuts are allowed in the room with us.

Not sure but maybe hemp could replace soy, She is not allergic to it at all, but hemp won't make cars and planes fly without adding to the carbon based global warming problems.

fusion opportunities are anything but ignorant.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25051577 -

We had many cold and warm periods on this planet.
We are not even out of the ice-age yet.
The next warm period is defined as when the poles are molten (again).
:sun:

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Rahz]
    #25051581 -

How to green the worlds deserts and reverse climate change

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: Pyroboy4206]
    #25051601 -

Glad you are for clean meat. There are recent advancements in this field which I will address here eventually. I'm not big on soy myself.

Pyroboy4206 said:
To even try to fusion/fission is insanity and unnecessary.



Fusion isn't as dirty as fission. It's true that radioactive particles are created but they can be fed back into the fuel system so it can't be considered a waste product. Additionally the byproduct has a half life of only 12 years, not to mention the production of radioactive particles stops if the system fails. Even if this weren't the case the largest reactor being built (ITER) will use about 1 gram of fuel at any given moment of which only a small percentage is in radioactive form at a given point in time. Laser based systems which likely will also advance beyond proof of concept use a small percentage of a gram at a given time. In the event of a failure we already have the technology to clean a fusion site safely. Once we can produce temperatures high enough the fuel will be radioactive free except for a brief existence inside the reactor where it will be burned as it's created. Maybe you haven't revisited the issue recently but it doesn't seem crazy to me.

While hemp could be used to replace other forms of energy it still takes land. Hemp could provide all our energy needs, but what if we want to use 10 times as much? or 100 times as much? If there was no promise for nuclear energy I would be more keen on it, but would prefer to see as much land as possible returned to nature, one of the primary reasons I'm in favor of fusion. While we're waiting on fusion I would be glad to see the hemp industry gear up... but when fusion becomes serious competition the bio-fuel industry will eventually shrink and disappear. I don't think bio-fuel should be artificially expensive due to silly laws, but I also wouldn't want to prop up the bio-fuel industry when there's a better alternative.

There's a related topic involving the usefulness of money and labor in a post-fusion world. I haven't mentioned it because I'd like to restrict my part in this thread to the main topic unless it comes up, but you have touched on it with your comment on giving power back to farmers. It's a tricky subject, difficult to see into that future, but I like to think there will be solutions.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25051604 -

BlueCoyote said:
We had many cold and warm periods on this planet.
We are not even out of the ice-age yet.
The next warm period is defined as when the poles are molten (again).
:sun:


Everything I've read indicates we're in-between glacial periods and are overdue for another 60-80,000 year glacial period. Can you provide more information on that?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Global Warming and the Technological solution [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25051611 -

redgreenvines said:
Soy is a huge problem for me, because my wife is allergic to peanuts tree nuts etc, and legumes are included and soy is in everything these days.
Soy exposure can cause death in 20 minutes.
It even gets in the air - i.e. it is an airborn allergen, like nuts, so no nuts are allowed in the room with us.

Not sure but maybe hemp could replace soy, She is not allergic to it at all, but hemp won't make cars and planes fly without adding to the carbon based global warming problems.

fusion opportunities are anything but ignorant.


that isn't true, biofuels are carbon-neutral.  Plants build biomass out of atmospheric CO2.  Fossil carbon is the problem

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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