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Offlinerunlikeanantelope
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Debating shoebox for 2nd grow
    #24913212 - 01/14/18 10:51 AM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Good morning all and happy Sunday! First off, thank you all for your posts and especially to the TCs for all of the advice. I hadn't posted yet because the myriad of "is this contaminated?" posts, "can I fruit now" posts, and the detailed guides helped me through my first grow and it went better than I had expected. I used a kit (I know, I know) but for 2lb of rye berries and 5lbs of substrate I got 2 flushes and 64g dry.

For my next grow I'm planning to use 2 kits worth of materials (4lb berries, 10lbs substrate) because honestly for me ease of grow > cost of grow. I'm fine with keeping pace on the yield (so ~120g) but the 2 things I want to reduce is the amount of FAE I'm having to do (I use a paper plate and fan for ~1 min/bag 2x day) and less side pins (inevitable when growing in a see-through bag).

Would a shoebox grow be better for my wants? If so, considering the materials, should I be using 1 or 2 6oz tubs? What shoebox method reduces manual FAE more, dub tubbing or not sealing the lid? If a shoebox isn't right for my situation, any recommendations of fans or something to reduce manual FAE?

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OfflineRockyB
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: runlikeanantelope]
    #24913252 - 01/14/18 11:08 AM (7 years, 3 days ago)

I've been experimenting with a dub tub. I leave the lid unsealed and cracked to the side about 1/4 inch. I don't fan at all, but I have to mist a few times a day. I had a great first flush using /ess than a quart of spawn to a quart of coir.

I've read a lot of posts about monotubs needing very little work, but I haven't done a monotub grow. I like how little room the dub tub takes up.


They're a bit fuzzy, but heart and healthy.

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Offlinerunlikeanantelope
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: RockyB]
    #24913511 - 01/14/18 01:04 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Thanks for your response! I don't mind misting at all, it's the fanning. Yours are a lot less fuzzy than mine were and if you didn't have to fan, that definitely seems up my alley.

Can you tell me more about your setup? What kind of tub are you using?

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Invisiblenube424
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: runlikeanantelope]
    #24913630 - 01/14/18 01:58 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Runlikeanantilope, just look up dub tub in the seach bar.

Ull get multiple different grows to look at and take a little info from each one and make ur own plan based off methods u see.

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OfflineShrooms4life
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: nube424]
    #24913712 - 01/14/18 02:31 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

I'm using the same grow kit supplies as you are following mushboys making shoeboxes thread and it's going great! You should check it out.

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OfflineHopeless_Hound
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: Shrooms4life]
    #24914026 - 01/14/18 04:38 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Fanning in almost all cases is completely unnecessary, I found much more benefit in having a fan running in the general area pointed away for constant moving air. But now I don't even do that, just open air and watch for surface moisture, I do overmist a bit sometimes but it's ok because of how fast the water evaporates. Have pretty good success with this so far, even working a 9-5 job.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: Hopeless_Hound]
    #24914127 - 01/14/18 05:15 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

There is no such thing as manual FAE. Fanning provides *no* FAE.

Frequent air exchange needs to happen all the time.

I like to fruit my shoeboxes in monotubs. A typical monotub has the substrate in the bottom few inches of the tub but can also be used as a fruiting chamber for shoeboxes. I always do 2 in each tub at a time.

The FAE is provided by the holes in the tub, and restricted by the polyfil. The only reason we restrict FAE at all is to keep the sub from drying out. So by keeping the bottom holes stuffed very tightly and the top two very loose, we can find a balance , allowing the Max amount of FAE we can before things start drying out.
Dialed in properly a monotub needs no misting at all.

The substrate in a monotub provides its own humidity so more substrate is better. That's why I put 2 shoeboxes in each tub, it reduces the need for misting.




I usually use regular monotubs over shoeboxes but I do use them for special projects, like in the old photos above, that was a series of clone tests.


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Offlinerunlikeanantelope
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: Shrooms4life]
    #24914490 - 01/14/18 07:40 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Shrooms4life said:
I'm using the same grow kit supplies as you are following mushboys making shoeboxes thread and it's going great! You should check it out.




Awesome, I'll check it out thanks!

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Offlinerunlikeanantelope
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: Hopeless_Hound]
    #24914493 - 01/14/18 07:42 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Hopeless_Hound said:
Fanning in almost all cases is completely unnecessary, I found much more benefit in having a fan running in the general area pointed away for constant moving air. But now I don't even do that, just open air and watch for surface moisture, I do overmist a bit sometimes but it's ok because of how fast the water evaporates. Have pretty good success with this so far, even working a 9-5 job.




Yeah I always make sure to mist but I kept getting super fuzzy feet. I'll try using a fan, thank you!

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OfflineRockyB
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: mushpunx]
    #24914495 - 01/14/18 07:43 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Yeah, I haven't built a monotub yet. Maybe once I get there I'll realize the benefit over dub tubs myself.

It's super simple.
6 quart container
1 quart colonized whatever. 1.5 quarts coir or 2 quarts colonized WE, 2-3 quarts coir
Wrap tinfoil nice and tight so it's air tight, poke a couple holes and put micropore tape over the holes
Let spawn for 10-14 days until it's nice and white
Case with 50/50 peat moss verm
Place your identical 6 quart on top

You can line the inside with a bag or spray paint the bottom of the plastic.

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Offlinerunlikeanantelope
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: mushpunx]
    #24914509 - 01/14/18 07:48 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
There is no such thing as manual FAE. Fanning provides *no* FAE.

Frequent air exchange needs to happen all the time.

I like to fruit my shoeboxes in monotubs. A typical monotub has the substrate in the bottom few inches of the tub but can also be used as a fruiting chamber for shoeboxes. I always do 2 in each tub at a time.

The FAE is provided by the holes in the tub, and restricted by the polyfil. The only reason we restrict FAE at all is to keep the sub from drying out. So by keeping the bottom holes stuffed very tightly and the top two very loose, we can find a balance , allowing the Max amount of FAE we can before things start drying out.
Dialed in properly a monotub needs no misting at all.

The substrate in a monotub provides its own humidity so more substrate is better. That's why I put 2 shoeboxes in each tub, it reduces the need for misting.




I usually use regular monotubs over shoeboxes but I do use them for special projects, like in the old photos above, that was a series of clone tests.




Those look great! What you're saying makes a lot of sense, thank you for the advice!

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Offlinerunlikeanantelope
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: RockyB]
    #24914518 - 01/14/18 07:53 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

RockyB said:
Yeah, I haven't built a monotub yet. Maybe once I get there I'll realize the benefit over dub tubs myself.

It's super simple.
6 quart container
1 quart colonized whatever. 1.5 quarts coir or 2 quarts colonized WE, 2-3 quarts coir
Wrap tinfoil nice and tight so it's air tight, poke a couple holes and put micropore tape over the holes
Let spawn for 10-14 days until it's nice and white
Case with 50/50 peat moss verm
Place your identical 6 quart on top

You can line the inside with a bag or spray paint the bottom of the plastic.




I like this plan a lot, thank you for outlining it! Best of luck with your second flush (and beyond)!

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Offlinepsilocyanide
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: mushpunx]
    #24914557 - 01/14/18 08:24 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:



:ooo::thumbup:


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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: runlikeanantelope]
    #24914558 - 01/14/18 08:25 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Tinfoil and micropore tape are completely unnecessary for colonization, its fine to spawn bulk in open air directly to fruiting conditions, what possible benefit could the foil and mp tape provide?


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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: AyePlus]
    #24914568 - 01/14/18 08:30 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

For spawn run higher co2 and guarding of bulk substrate's moisture content are necassary thus covering and gas exchanger are required.  Why not use the lid that comes with the shoebox would be better question posed.


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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: hamloaf]
    #24914624 - 01/14/18 09:12 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
For spawn run higher co2 and guarding of bulk substrate's moisture content are necassary thus covering and gas exchanger are required.  Why not use the lid that comes with the shoebox would be better question posed.





Thats what I meant. But I would disagree with you slightly to say that high CO2, while beneficial, is not completely neccesary. As evidenced by the many members who fruit at spawn. And the moisture could be replaced by frequent misting, like mushboy in his shoebox thread although personally I would rather not do anything extra so I just set and forget until harvest usually.

But yeah why not use the lid? Why waste foil and MP tape, no need to filter the air when colonizing. Just put the lid back on and walk away, sounds overcomplicated.


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OfflineSally Hatchet
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: AyePlus]
    #24914689 - 01/14/18 09:55 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Post deleted by Sally Hatchet

Reason for deletion: .



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OfflineThreads from God89
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: Sally Hatchet]
    #24914764 - 01/14/18 10:57 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

I have been having a really hard time keeping my surface conditions perfectly ideal while fruiting with my two shoebxes I have.... They finally have pins at least, but some bruising too.

      I think I would have better luck with shoeboxes/dubtubs during the summer months as the air in my home is really dry cuz of the heat currently!!!  Shoeboxes have to be fussed over a lot more than a good, dialed-in monotub with polyfill it seems.

      IMO a monotub creates and maintains a much better microclimate/fruiting environment than a shoebox...... It is it's own bio-dome!!! :thumbup:

        Shoeboxes are cool too! Don't get me wrong.  I just like how a mono keeps it's surface without almost drying out three times a day! Lol


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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24914786 - 01/14/18 11:25 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Shoeboxes are child's play next to monotubs, ohmatic-style.


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Offlinerunlikeanantelope
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: AyePlus]
    #24915090 - 01/15/18 06:38 AM (7 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

AyePlus said:
And the moisture could be replaced by frequent misting, like mushboy in his shoebox thread although personally I would rather not do anything extra so I just set and forget until harvest usually.




May I ask what is your setup like then?

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Offlinerunlikeanantelope
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: Sally Hatchet]
    #24915091 - 01/15/18 06:39 AM (7 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Sally Hatchet said:
I plan on following the shoe box tek as well with either BRF spawn, or doing the ryeberries like you are using. Seems like the ideal tek, (for me anyway).




Yeah I'm hoping it's going to get me similar results but with less work haha. Best of luck to you!

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Offlinerunlikeanantelope
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: Threads from God89]
    #24915097 - 01/15/18 06:46 AM (7 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Threads from God89 said:
I have been having a really hard time keeping my surface conditions perfectly ideal while fruiting with my two shoebxes I have.... They finally have pins at least, but some bruising too.

      I think I would have better luck with shoeboxes/dubtubs during the summer months as the air in my home is really dry cuz of the heat currently!!!  Shoeboxes have to be fussed over a lot more than a good, dialed-in monotub with polyfill it seems.

      IMO a monotub creates and maintains a much better microclimate/fruiting environment than a shoebox...... It is it's own bio-dome!!! :thumbup:

        Shoeboxes are cool too! Don't get me wrong.  I just like how a mono keeps it's surface without almost drying out three times a day! Lol




Yeah I'm having the same problem with the air in my house, I'm not going to start the grow until at least March so I'm hoping that will help.

You're not the first to suggest a monotub, I do eventually want to get there, it's just a lot of eggs to put in one basket. If the shoebox goes well that might be my third grow.

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Offlinerunlikeanantelope
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: hamloaf]
    #24915104 - 01/15/18 06:50 AM (7 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Shoeboxes are child's play next to monotubs, ohmatic-style.




I know but in shroom-land I am like a toddler considering I only have 1 grow under my belt :p if the shoebox grow goes well I will consider a monotub for my third grow.

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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: runlikeanantelope]
    #24915338 - 01/15/18 09:39 AM (7 years, 2 days ago)

For testing and finding clones I use Unmodded shoeboxes, 5.2qt, 1-1.5 qts spawn to 1.5-2.5 qts coir. I leave the lid on intil I see pins. Then if I’m gonna be around I flip the lid and mist as needed usually once a day, or If I’m not gonna be around I either dub it or if its a short variety like ksss or PE and I okly used 1mycoqt. I leave the lid on and harvest when theyre done or sometimes open when theyre close and let them finish a few hours to half a day in open air. The imperfect seal of the shoebox provides adequate fae.

Monotubs are where its at for yeild and ease of use IMO, but noone wants a whole mono of shit genetics, I just ran a PE6 pin clone that only spit out 2 inchers and aborts in 2 shoeboxes and a 16qt mini,  while something is better than nothing I’m glad I wasn’t running monos of it, woulda been a dissapointment for sure. This way its just oh well time to ditch that and try a different one.


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
🅂 🄰 🄼 🄴  🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼  🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿

Edited by AyePlus (01/15/18 09:46 AM)

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OfflineRockyB
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: AyePlus]
    #24916326 - 01/15/18 04:59 PM (7 years, 2 days ago)

I'll try replacing the foil w the lid and see how healthy the myc looks. I live in a very dry climate, so I'm going to keep the cover for now unless I end up with a lot of spawn.

I have noticed in my limited experience that the myc looks healthier if I keep humidity up and reduce misting during fruiting and I'm assuming that's a constant when looking at a spawn run.

I've read a lot of posts about the set and forget when it comes to a monotub. I'll give it a shot.

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OfflineRockyB
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: runlikeanantelope]
    #24916335 - 01/15/18 05:01 PM (7 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

runlikeanantelope said:
Quote:

Threads from God89 said:
I have been having a really hard time keeping my surface conditions perfectly ideal while fruiting with my two shoebxes I have.... They finally have pins at least, but some bruising too.

      I think I would have better luck with shoeboxes/dubtubs during the summer months as the air in my home is really dry cuz of the heat currently!!!  Shoeboxes have to be fussed over a lot more than a good, dialed-in monotub with polyfill it seems.

      IMO a monotub creates and maintains a much better microclimate/fruiting environment than a shoebox...... It is it's own bio-dome!!! :thumbup:

        Shoeboxes are cool too! Don't get me wrong.  I just like how a mono keeps it's surface without almost drying out three times a day! Lol




Yeah I'm having the same problem with the air in my house, I'm not going to start the grow until at least March so I'm hoping that will help.

You're not the first to suggest a monotub, I do eventually want to get there, it's just a lot of eggs to put in one basket. If the shoebox goes well that might be my third grow.



Exactly what's been keeping me from the monotub.

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OfflineThreads from God89
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Re: Debating shoebox for 2nd grow [Re: hamloaf]
    #24916371 - 01/15/18 05:15 PM (7 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Shoeboxes are child's play next to monotubs, ohmatic-style.





Yeah!!!.... Nothing like a full forest canopy!!! :rockon:


--------------------
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    I Will Keep the Fire going,  and the Good Wolf fed.......

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