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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Josex]
    #24910783 - 01/13/18 12:19 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Didn't notice it until right before I took the pic, they are sealed up now and will be thrown out

I would do what lizard suggested but keep the cut out part at least the crust to help keep the grain in


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LizardWizard]
    #24910785 - 01/13/18 12:21 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

I am worried about mold beating out the mushroom mycelium, but who knows.

I have also been wondering what would happen if you shot it up with some LC, lol.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheMadHatter420] * 1
    #24910805 - 01/13/18 12:32 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

@mushboy, sorry I went AFK for a while and will address your recent posts in one go (or try).

----

The type and chance of contamination on a media is based on it's carbon composition (essential for a carbon based life form).

----

Examples:

Vegetables: Starch, cellulose, protein, trace sugar, trace phenol's.
Bread: Starch, cellulose, protein, trace sugar, trace phenol's.

Wood: Cellulose, lignin + other phenol's, trace protein.
Coir: Cellulose, lignin + other phenol's, trace protein.


Bread will contain preservatives, which apparently effect single cellular organisms more than multicellular.
Given that 99% of the time, the first organism and usually only organism on the bread, is mold.

Vegetables, without preservatives, or reduced when cooked, can get bacterial.

----

Coir and wood:

Both coir and wood are lignicolous materials, both are composed of cellulose and phenol's as the main carbon source.
They both also contain protein, which organisms can consume as a carbon source, although theirs not enough.

Lignicolous mold will expel cellulase (cellulose) and laccase (phenol's) enzymes from spores.
Given the bread example, we already know that these types of molds are tough.

Trichoderma for example will also expel amylase (starch) enzymes.

----

Conclusion:

Contamination depends on the enzyme set of the organism and the carbon present in the media.
Even cooked meat can contaminate from organisms which eat protein-other.

To get good decay of cellulose, you need trace other carbon.

----

Coir contains such low amounts of phenol's and protein it's resistant.
Your Cubensis is getting its units from the starchy spawn.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #24910819 - 01/13/18 12:41 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

didnt the nazis use phenols? 

so my coir has trace phenols and protein...not enough for molds but enough for cube myc to really go to town.:cool: coolbeans.

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OfflineShroomarican
Stranger
Registered: 12/14/17
Posts: 41
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24910833 - 01/13/18 12:45 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

I could come up with hundreds of topics for a thread. One being the idea of efficiently spawning and fruiting a consistent personal supply of said mushroom.  A constant ready supply by using bulk tek methods. Inoculating grains like small kernel popcorn or rye in quart jars and grow bags with injection port. I prefer jars, popcorn tek. Sometime mixing in vermiculite is recommended. I highly disagree with adding verm, I tried it on one jar and it's nasty looking. Just stick with straight boiled popcorn. Once fully colonized, monotrays or monotubs can be spawned to. 1:4 ratio of spawn to substrate. Coir-verm sub, 60-40. After the final flushes the harvest they're should be piles of dried shrooms.dried on a metal rack with a fan blowing over and under the  mushie. Then stashed away in glass jars with a descicant packet. Anytime I want to tune out there would be a good supply. They are hard to grow for MS spores to fruit. Pf tek is slow, tending to usually  stall out or get green mold. Hope this popcorn tek colonized itself properly and faster do to the shaking element for popcorn half colonized, spreads the mycellium out. Inoculation complete for 2 quart jars and 3 half pint jars. Nocked up the center of the jars as well. Want so much spawn I have to refrigerate some trays for later fruiting. Mycology of Actives and medicinal mushrooms is of up most importance to me, an obbsesion of the last 6 months. Failed attempts, contaminated ones, stalled brf jars, all teaching me the right way to do things. Pf tek simplified growing techniques for mycologists starting out in the hobby. Tripping on hallucinagenic shrooms rocks, acid is great too. Uncountable numbers of topics about shroomery. How can I grow a cube patch in my outdoor garden? How much to trip balls? Etcetera etcetera... active and medicinal mushrooms fascinate us in the mycology community. Trying to become master grower/propagators in the field. Who else is fixated on cubensis shrooms? How do I start a liquid culture is also a topic worth researching. -Shroomarican-

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InvisibleGerms
Space Force
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Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,607
Loc: Texas
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24910836 - 01/13/18 12:46 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Dude.... paragraphs... press the enter button a couple times



Quote:

mushboy said:
everyone knows you just bury rye bread in the groud with a lemon.

or you grow raw lsd in jars


:trolldance:



Lol I remember that story... crazy stuff


--------------------

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OfflineFerather
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Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24910869 - 01/13/18 12:57 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
...so my coir has trace phenols and protein...not enough for molds but enough for cube myc to really go to town.:cool: coolbeans.




Yes, pretty much, if you imagine adding enough malt extract to the coir then adding a tissue sample, it would grow out.
The malt extract would replace the trace phenol's (no laccase), and decay-usage of the cellulose will occur.

This is the same for spawn, where the spawn is inoculated, and provides starch, proteins so on.
The multicellular Cubensis will send and spend the starch to decay the cellulose.

The spawn acts as pockets of spendable carbon and general nutrients.

----

Invaders from air, will suffer with low carbon (ignoring the cellulose).
Whereas your mycelium will have plenty of spendable units.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather] * 1
    #24910879 - 01/13/18 01:01 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

all i need to know. thanks govna'

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OfflineFerather
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Registered: 03/19/15
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24910880 - 01/13/18 01:02 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.

Edited by Ferather (01/13/18 01:22 PM)

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OfflineThufir_Hawat
Mentat
I'm a teapot

Registered: 03/18/17
Posts: 399
Last seen: 27 days, 9 hours
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Shroomarican]
    #24910966 - 01/13/18 01:38 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shroomarican said:
I could come up with hundreds of topics for a thread. One being the idea of efficiently spawning and fruiting a consistent personal supply of said mushroom.  A constant ready supply by using bulk tek methods. Inoculating grains like small kernel popcorn or rye in quart jars and grow bags with injection port. I prefer jars, popcorn tek. Sometime mixing in vermiculite is recommended. I highly disagree with adding verm, I tried it on one jar and it's nasty looking. Just stick with straight boiled popcorn. Once fully colonized, monotrays or monotubs can be spawned to. 1:4 ratio of spawn to substrate. Coir-verm sub, 60-40. After the final flushes the harvest they're should be piles of dried shrooms.dried on a metal rack with a fan blowing over and under the  mushie. Then stashed away in glass jars with a descicant packet. Anytime I want to tune out there would be a good supply. They are hard to grow for MS spores to fruit. Pf tek is slow, tending to usually  stall out or get green mold. Hope this popcorn tek colonized itself properly and faster do to the shaking element for popcorn half colonized, spreads the mycellium out. Inoculation complete for 2 quart jars and 3 half pint jars. Nocked up the center of the jars as well. Want so much spawn I have to refrigerate some trays for later fruiting. Mycology of Actives and medicinal mushrooms is of up most importance to me, an obbsesion of the last 6 months. Failed attempts, contaminated ones, stalled brf jars, all teaching me the right way to do things. Pf tek simplified growing techniques for mycologists starting out in the hobby. Tripping on hallucinagenic shrooms rocks, acid is great too. Uncountable numbers of topics about shroomery. How can I grow a cube patch in my outdoor garden? How much to trip balls? Etcetera etcetera... active and medicinal mushrooms fascinate us in the mycology community. Trying to become master grower/propagators in the field. Who else is fixated on cubensis shrooms? How do I start a liquid culture is also a topic worth researching. -Shroomarican-




:yeahokaywaitwhat:

I'm sorry, what?

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OfflineHuskies
Boop More Snoots
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 1,061
Last seen: 8 hours, 3 minutes
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #24910968 - 01/13/18 01:39 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

So after trich hell with oats that I think were not clean enough because I followed Bod's tek to the T, I'm gonna go back to wheat berries and maybe even cakes.

I only have quart jars, I was thinking of doing pint sized cakes in them, no verm barrier, throwing in some LI then once they are fully colonized, break them up for bulk. THis should work right? Has anyone done this? pint sized cakes for bulk in quart jars? How long would I need to PC those do you think?

I'll use WBS flour at the beginning because I still have a bag, had really good success with that in the past actually.


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause you tell them to go "Mush! Mush""

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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,940
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Huskies] * 1
    #24910986 - 01/13/18 01:47 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

In my experience oats just kinda suck


--------------------

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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: natedawgnow]
    #24910995 - 01/13/18 01:50 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

I would recommend WBS, I find it more resistant than naked grain, plus the seed variation.
However, I will be honest, if the oats where cooked sterile, how did you get mold?


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.

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OfflineHuskies
Boop More Snoots
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 1,061
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Ferather]
    #24911005 - 01/13/18 01:56 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I do WBS, but where I live I can never find one where the price is right and it has the right ingredients.

There is shit dollar store stuff filled with cracked corn, or nice stuff that turns to mush but has peanuts in it.

Idk why I kept getting mold, maybe the plastic lids got warped, maybe it was truly all in my agars, but it wasn't racing horse quality, I think it was cheap oats that had too high of a sporeload (I was even PCing at 2 30 hours)


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause you tell them to go "Mush! Mush""

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OfflineFerather
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Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Huskies]
    #24911041 - 01/13/18 02:13 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Well to be fair, if you have followed the tek correctly, it's something else such as exposure.

----

I like budgie or small bird seed, I can get 20kg online for a good-decent price.

Example 1: £16.80 = 0.84p / kg | Example 2: £18.49 = 0.93p / kg

You might find similar in larger pet stores.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.

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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Huskies]
    #24911044 - 01/13/18 02:14 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

I think it is in the grain prep. Following Bods tek just did not work for me. It made them over hydrated. I now bring water to a boil. Shut off and dump oats in for 25 min. Then dump and steam dry.


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24911049 - 01/13/18 02:17 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Just throwing this out there. I started to do some research on endospores and found out that there are in fact some endospores that can withstand the 250f temp we get when PC'n. I also found out that there is bacteria smaller, like WAY smaller than 0.2 microns. So our filters are not 100% capable of filtering everything and our PC may not be killing everything. I tried researching what bacteria is found on grains but found next to no info. It is possible that oats just happen to have a bacteria endospore on them, that could survive the 250f temp of our PC.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24911059 - 01/13/18 02:21 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

then oats would mold, right? i got about 30qts i made 2weeks ago around xmas. they are fine:shrug: i think...:crazy:

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OfflineFerather
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24911065 - 01/13/18 02:26 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheMadHatter420 said:
...I tried researching what bacteria is found on grains but found next to no info. It is possible that oats just happen to have a bacteria endospore on them, that could survive the 250f temp of our PC.




Bacillus, such as Bacillus cereus, I believe the entire group makes endospores, present in soil and food.

The first link has the tree, if you scroll down a bit, there are several bacillus.


More links:

How does heat kill endospores?
Autoclaving: Real Sterilization


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.

Edited by Ferather (01/13/18 02:32 PM)

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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
    #24911071 - 01/13/18 02:28 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

I am just putting it out there that through a little Google research you can find info pointing to the fact that some endospores are made to survive our PC temp as well as some bacteria is small enough to bypass our filters. I wish I could find a study of grains and what bacteria are on them. What if oats just happen to have an endospore that CAN survive the PC. It seems like oats produce more problems for people than other grains. I still don't know why, probably prep, but we have no concrete answer to it.


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