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Icelander
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As Above So Below?
#24908261 - 01/12/18 03:39 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's what some of the spiritual teachers say. So if this world where we are has its joys and beauty it also has horrific pain and suffering both mental and physical. If that is so then all the spiritual realms beyond this must be the same. I remember Carl Jung saying something to the effect that if people think the afterlife is all heavenly they are going to be in for a shock.
What say you?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/12/18 03:39 PM)
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cez
Registered: 08/04/09
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24908332 - 01/12/18 04:20 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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In Tibetan Buddhism, they have six realms of existence. The realms of hell, hungry ghosts, animals, humans, asuras (jealous gods), and devas (sensuous/pleasurable gods).
They say, I think, the six realms of existence are six different perceptions of our mind or ways we interact with our stuff or reality, our controlled folly.
What does any of this mean? As above so below is also not two nor divided. Nonduality is the central point of spirituality I think. Conventions allow for the experience of nonduality and there’s a vast richness of variation in them.
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Icelander
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: cez]
#24908376 - 01/12/18 04:38 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ya gotta be ready for anything.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24908907 - 01/12/18 08:10 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah life starts at the head of a pen, as it expands, consciousness that is, you see the scale of opposites expands exponentially with it. Eventually nature fixes itself, youll see.
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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Threads from God89
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: agent]
#24908945 - 01/12/18 08:21 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am holding out for peace and calm in my afterlife.... A world of Joy, and Pure Love.... Where nothing hurts, and there is warmth and Solice.
It is a Kingdom called Heaven....... Love this Life, and try and make the most of the gift that it is, because what comes after is unknown.
-------------------- Admirer of Bushido....... Seeker of Truth, and Knowledge. I Will Keep the Fire going, and the Good Wolf fed....... ( We Are All Threads from God.)
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agent
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its not unknown man, you can make yourself into heaven now. you just have to let it light your path. and float upstream
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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dmnats
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If God loves us, wouldnt this be hell? Think about it, would a loving parent physically harm their child 24/7? If whatever up there has all those crazy kind of powers, couldnt it have placed us on here to suffer "softly" and slowly? When a country wants someone to suffer, they place them in jail for life. Its more painful to live than to be dead. When you die, theres only a moment. When youre alive, you slowly rot away. Isnt it obvious we are programmed to suffer and feel pain? Thats probably why humans love opioids so much-it kills the pain. I hate to be so mellow dramatic, but i feel like a loving god would put us in a tolerable hell. Nothing here is perfect, literally. I think heaven must feel like MDMA 24/7 (not that ive ever tried it).
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: dmnats]
#24909021 - 01/12/18 08:56 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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true love circulating through your body is like an infinite orgasm and thats what it feels like, you come to understand that you are a piece of fruit in nature, you are cosmicological and secrete nectar of nature, you are all of everything combined into perfect harmony, 100% perfect, the perfect being, the fruit of the cosmos, the creation of god.
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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Icelander
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Quote:
Threads from God89 said: I am holding out for peace and calm in my afterlife.... A world of Joy, and Pure Love.... Where nothing hurts, and there is warmth and Solice.
.
Wouldn't that be nice. Especially after all this.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: dmnats]
#24909065 - 01/12/18 09:17 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
dmnats said: If God loves us, wouldnt this be hell? Think about it, would a loving parent physically harm their child 24/7? If whatever up there has all those crazy kind of powers, couldnt it have placed us on here to suffer "softly" and slowly? When a country wants someone to suffer, they place them in jail for life. Its more painful to live than to be dead. When you die, theres only a moment. When youre alive, you slowly rot away. Isnt it obvious we are programmed to suffer and feel pain? Thats probably why humans love opioids so much-it kills the pain. I hate to be so mellow dramatic, but i feel like a loving god would put us in a tolerable hell. Nothing here is perfect, literally. I think heaven must feel like MDMA 24/7 (not that ive ever tried it).
This certainly isn't what I'd create for beings that I loved. I've done MDMA many times. The first time I did it alone in a dark bedroom with no music and warm temps naked on a bed with a full length body pillow. Two hits of pure MDMA and I'd never done it before. The first six hours or so of that experience is the highpoint of my life. I felt nothing but love and pure bliss far,far,far above and beyond anything I'd ever felt before or since.
I could do that 24/7 for eternity.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/12/18 09:18 PM)
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24909068 - 01/12/18 09:18 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah its fucking awesome man
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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sprinkles
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24909098 - 01/12/18 09:29 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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maybe the afterlife (for some) isn't hellfire and brimstone.. but rather cold, dark, nothingness. I think that might be where people who commit suicide go. to a lonely, horrible inter-realm of nothingness forever that sounds also like a lighter version of hell.
I would like to avoid all of that. you do that by simply accepting Gods gift and sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ. is the most important thing a person will ever do in their lifetime. So that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. there is nothing, NOTHING more important than where you will spend eternity.
and really now, logically what does a person have to lose? Lets say you die, and it turns out he doesnt exist, you still will have lived a good life. In accepting Christ you lose nothing, you actually gain by having insight and understanding because the Holy spirit will dwell within you. It is your helper, and it is the beginning of knowledge and understanding. I know he is real. And how wonderful it is to KNOW something. Because I dont know anything else to be true. Everything here seems to be a giant fucking lie.
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: sprinkles]
#24909103 - 01/12/18 09:30 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sprinkles said: maybe the afterlife (for some) isn't hellfire and brimstone.. but rather cold, dark, nothingness. I think that might be where people who commit suicide go. to a lonely, horrible inter-realm of nothingness forever that sounds also like a lighter version of hell.
I would like to avoid all of that. you do that by simply accepting Gods gift and sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ. is the most important thing a person will ever do in lifetime. So that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. there is nothing, NOTHING more important than where you will spend eternity.
and really now, logically what does a person have to lose? Lets say you die, and it turns out he doesnt exist, you still will have lived a good life. In accepting Christ you lose nothing, you actually gain by having insight and understanding because the Holy spirit will dwell within you. It is your helper, and it is the beginning of knowledge and understanding. I know he is real. And how wonderful it is to KNOW something. Because I dont know anything else to be true. Everything here seems to be a giant fucking lie.
preach
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander] 1
#24909161 - 01/12/18 09:59 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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I imagine that if there are realms beyond this one, they are extremely complex, and I'm sure there would be some sort of hierarchy. With God at the top, presumably, and many lesser gods as you descend. Possibly all of the gods you've heard about exist somehow, somewhere, and they have an innumerable number of duties and tasks. Take Earth. A lot of people work very hard just to keep civilization afloat. If they didn't, everything would collapse. I imagine infinity is probably similar. Nature exists on a principle of necessity and contingency. It doesn't need God in order to function. But -- what if something went wrong that, if corrected, would save an entire galaxy? Wouldn't you want a team of gods to fix it? I personally have to wonder how human civilization survived the Cold War. I imagine there were multiple interventions from on high, given some of the stories I've been told by people who lived it, e.g. a submarine commander who taught physics at my high school. That sort of thing.
Tl;dr: I imagine that, if a next life presents itself, all that will be waiting for us is hard work. Not paradise.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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agent
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nice analogy, im sure most of us has been at work for some time, rather we know it or not
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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Heyowana
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24909842 - 01/13/18 05:28 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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As above so below. Micocosmos and Macrocosmos. Two triangles intersecting to form a six pointed star. Venerated by magicians and spiritual adherents alike. We as a microcosmos are a manifestation of the universe at large. Those laws that keep the universe in motion effect us as well.
I like the idea. It makes me feel like I'm part of a much greater picture. Yet I can overlook human ideologies like gods, demigods, angels, demons etc. Many would argue this point choosing to bring our human myths into this equation. Planetary and cosmic forces are the constant in the "as above so below" theme for me.
The same symbol of the six pointed star is also used to represent male and female in union. So that's tangible for me as well. Unicursal hexagram is another manifestation of that symbol. That symbol being used by the O.T.O. and a Gurdjieff group as well. That's food for thought depending on how you view Crowley's ideas compared to Gurdjieff's.
I choose not to judge bearing in mind that we humble beings are just a tiny fragment of this universal "as above so below" idea.
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Heyowana]
#24909845 - 01/13/18 05:30 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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very interesting analitical point of view into your cosmic energy sir
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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dmnats
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24909971 - 01/13/18 07:31 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was trying to say that we are already placed in hell. Like we had past lives and this is our hell.
Buddhism believes that the karma that ripens during your death determines where you'll be placed in the six realms. But your main goal as a Buddhist is to stop reincarnating forever, to never feel and exist ever again. They believe change is our main source of suffering. I feel like all the arrows are pointing towards the fact that we currently live in hell! I mean there's happiness and joy, and you can try n' control your mind as much as you want. But at the end of the day, pain and suffering usually contradict those feelings, and you feel content rather than that MDMA joy, am I right? Nothing is perfect here. The human race cant even draw a perfect circle! Everything is programmed not to be perfect. Im not the kind of guy whos a Debby Downer; i'm just completely honest to myself. What evidence proves we're not in hell already? If this is hell, then hats of to our God, because he must truly love us. Its a lot better/ a lot more of a mind fuck than burning 24/7 lol
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: dmnats]
#24910020 - 01/13/18 08:19 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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this is not hell, hell is eternal fire and suffering, you dont see fire do you? also this is nature, and nature always returns to her pristine state, whether we like her to or not, she is all knowing, and she fixes itself, with the help of us we keep nature alive, and her us.
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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dmnats
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: agent]
#24910148 - 01/13/18 09:20 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why do you believe in that though? I think a God could be a bit more creative with the torturing. He gives us the pleasures of "nature" just to tease us. We "suffer" for 70 or so years and then repeat through reincarnation. Not saying im right or anything, its a total long shot, but why not think outside of the box? If we're made in his image, then im sure he'd be more creative and devious than burning us forever. I dont want to believe we're in hell, but im sure as hell (hehe) not gonna leave that out of the equation. But who knows? All that matters, i guess, is what you feel at that very last moment. Its your one and only moment out of the millions you've experienced and there's no going back. I say stay confident at that last moment, and what happens after is out of our clueless hands.
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: dmnats]
#24910225 - 01/13/18 09:48 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah of course, and you are right in thinking that, nature is perfect so she creates, and takes, and redistributes, she is perfect, and she secretes when she breaths, and it takes time to develop but in the end the focu s is actually right before our very eyes if we are able to get past the hurdles needed to explore infinity.
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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Icelander
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: sprinkles]
#24910307 - 01/13/18 10:07 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sprinkles said: maybe the afterlife (for some) isn't hellfire and brimstone.. but rather cold, dark, nothingness. I think that might be where people who commit suicide go. to a lonely, horrible inter-realm of nothingness forever that sounds also like a lighter version of hell.
I would like to avoid all of that. you do that by simply accepting Gods gift and sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ. is the most important thing a person will ever do in their lifetime. So that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. there is nothing, NOTHING more important than where you will spend eternity.
and really now, logically what does a person have to lose? Lets say you die, and it turns out he doesnt exist, you still will have lived a good life. In accepting Christ you lose nothing, you actually gain by having insight and understanding because the Holy spirit will dwell within you. It is your helper, and it is the beginning of knowledge and understanding. I know he is real. And how wonderful it is to KNOW something. Because I dont know anything else to be true. Everything here seems to be a giant fucking lie.
Where in the bible does it say suicide will receive any kind of punishment?
Your rationale for accepting christ to avoid hell seems like an amazingly cowardly position to take and hardly likely to be sincere. Yet I believe almost all christians do accept christ first and foremost to avoid hell.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24910320 - 01/13/18 10:09 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah and id highly suggest youd do the same
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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Icelander
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: agent]
#24910330 - 01/13/18 10:11 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Be cowardly?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24910352 - 01/13/18 10:16 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah if you want to die in a fire xD
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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Icelander
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: agent]
#24910381 - 01/13/18 10:24 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not superstitious.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24910403 - 01/13/18 10:28 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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well thats nice to know, no need to do anything that it doesnt ask for.
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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dmnats
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: agent]
#24910923 - 01/13/18 01:20 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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So im assuming OP is Christian? Why are you questioning your faith?
Hebrews 11:1 (this angel # follows me) says "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see".
What do you WANT to believe in OP? Cause at that last moment, like i said, you best be confident. You dont wanna go ruin your last conscious moment in one of the upper 3 realms, homie.
I wanna believe we're ancient aliens that use virtual reality (VR) allowing us to live hundreds of lives on this planet, which is a big biological/self sustainable space ship floating through the universe. If you were "bad", we dont wake you up. If you were "good", we wake you up from the VR and decide if you wanna live another life or stay awake. People who decide to stay awake Shepherd the human race so we dont destroy our only "ship".
So i kinda mixed between the function of reincarnation, and that one episode with Rick and Morty playing those alien arcade games. Morty thought he was in the game for 70 years, but he was only there for minutes. Wouldnt this be the best way to "live forever"? CEO of tesla openly stated he believes that all of this could be a virtual reality and theres a TED talk on it too. Youtube is a great source.
But anyways, this is all empirical evaluation and this is what i want to believe in at my very last moment. Bring me up to the mother ship, mfers!
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agent
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: dmnats]
#24912326 - 01/13/18 11:46 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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proverbs 5:15 just do it.
-------------------- Its like going to your favortire location but doing that exact same thing multiple times to begin that we aware that your aware of it, and to join the collective consciousness of it.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24915533 - 01/15/18 11:38 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are you sure it was Jung? He seemed to suggest that one entered the Collective Unconscious and that he considered the possibility of some continued existence, but he remained extremely vague in anything I remember reading. Add to this his denial that one's consciousness could transcend the ego without losing consciousness. This latter point was in his preface to The Tibetan Book of the Great Liberation where he said he could understand a "depotentiated ego," a diminishment I suppose, but his model did not contain a superconsciousness. That is probably why he dismissed the idea of visiting Ramana Maharishi when Jung was in India. He dismissively said, "I know the type." Indeed! Sri Ramana would've torn Jung's limited model apart If you read any of his Advaitic writings, Sri Ramana was more analytical than the Analytical Psychologist himself! The Self for Advaita is the Eternal "I AM" to which we return to full awareness in death (and in some samadhis) as we Realize every reference to I, me, and mine has always referred. But we became so deceived by our identification with the psychophysical 'me,' that we forget what we Really are.
I suspect it may be like getting into a hot bath at death. AH is the seed syllable of the Throat Center. It rises from the Heart Center and manifests as this seed-syllable (see Bhagwan Das' album AH). It may be like the liquid being Odo on the TV show Deep Space Nine, returning to the ocean of his natural existence, merging with the consciousness of his race, yet in that show, individuality is retained. I am still unsure of this individuality versus complete loss of individuality, unless our individuality IS that Eternal "I AM," thoughtless, memoryless, fearless, ecstatic with "unbearable compassion," a deathless moment that does not pass but has no duration because it is timeless. Then, the life we so fear the loss of will surprise us as it fades like the protracted dream it was, much of which was nightmarish (reminiscent of Dorothy on her return from Oz). But, at long last, we Awaken as Joy Itself.
It's funny, I write on Quora about dreams and recently wrote about how the dream-ego is not confused when one dream-sequence ends and instantly we find ourself in a totally different dream. Our dream-ego does not say 'WTF?! I was just in the woods, now I'm on another planet!' The dream-ego turns on a dime, accepting the present scene without memory of the dream it just left. I explained this because the dream-ego, like the waking-ego, is like a series of still frames in a motion picture, each arising and dying in each moment. The succession of arising-diminishing moments gives the illusion of a continuous entity persisting through time, but Buddhist Abhidharma psychology says this is false. When Neo in The Matrix finds himself in The Matrix without a plug in the back of his head, Morpheus explains that it is a "residual memory" of his former self. A neighbor shouts from across the street that the 2 year old little girl he is walking by the hand called me "Poppy." That toddler perceives me as an old man from 50 feet away, but when I look at myself in the mirror, I have only now, because of this child's articulation, begun to see myself more accurately. I go through the world with some "residual memory" of myself, yet it should be evident to me. Females do not look at me like they used to. THEY see me as an old man too. If I begin to decompensate, I might want to dig out my toy soldiers and play in the sand with them, thinking I'm 7 years old again.
What's my point? Just another real-life example of how we go about with a false sense of identity. I'm not going about thinking "I am the Self" like I did when I was 20 and new to metaphysic and playing God, but I seem to be in denial, not about my chronological age, but about my identity. I am well-preserved for my age, and I hear that from others, but I'm not talking vanity, I'm talking false self-concept, not recognizing what is actually real. One of my fears is that when I'm actually dying, I won't recognize what is happening while all around me everyone else knows and won't tell me. If you haven't seen A.J. Gold's & Claudio Naranjo's The American Book of the Dead, it might interest you. I once had a student see it in my office and tell me her uncle read it before he died. It's a departure from the abstract colored clear and dull lights of the Tibetan Book of the Dead which attract us, and the suggestion that we'll experience very dream-like sequences in the various Bardos. The goal of course, is not to take rebirth but allow ourselves to dissolve in the Clear Light of the Void. Most of the time this is so terrifying that the dying consciousness seeks refuge from the Unmitigated Light of reality by taking any kind of both in darkness. https://www.amazon.com/American-Book-Dead-J-Gold/dp/0895560518/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516041318&sr=8-1&keywords=the+american+book+of+the+dead
Sorry for the length of the post.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Typerwritermonky
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: cez]
#24915745 - 01/15/18 01:08 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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cez said: In Tibetan Buddhism, they have six realms of existence. The realms of hell, hungry ghosts, animals, humans, asuras (jealous gods), and devas (sensuous/pleasurable gods).
They say, I think, the six realms of existence are six different perceptions of our mind or ways we interact with our stuff or reality, our controlled folly.
What does any of this mean? As above so below is also not two nor divided. Nonduality is the central point of spirituality I think. Conventions allow for the experience of nonduality and there’s a vast richness of variation in them.
As much as this is true; nobody in our lifetime here is going to fully understand non-duality in a state of spirituality. Perhaps in a few moments of spiritual ecstasy, or release (moksha moments) - but not in a constant state.
Therefore - it's actually better to accept that in life, we have some "primary" dualities that we just can't escape. This doesn't negate non-duality; it accepts it, yet realizes it's more accurate to understand our world in some primary dual ways - as few as possible.
These are - Up and Down, Left and Right, Warm and Cold, as well as a few others. These are inescapable to those except an excelled master, none of which ANY of us on here are; these ideas are formed in the womb, and so deeply engrained in us - such as we have an up and a down, a left and a right - these are the four primary directions on the two primary axis's (think a mathematical graph). Then we have warm (association) and cold (dissasociation). Warm is good in the womb, we are connected to our source. Cold is bad, separation from source.
Regardless, we can't escape these - so seeing our universe in this way actually helps us to understand it better then through a perverted understanding of non-duality. Sure you can recite the definition of non-duality to me, but that doesn't mean you understand it - a parrot can recite the definition, and you are no closer to understanding it then the parrot is.
As well - nothing is divided. In Aristotle's Logic, he shows that it is very possible for all to be one at a certain point - yet through the Logos, we are able to divide that into two. So through our Logos, which we can't escape unless we are in moksha moments or pure spiritual enlightenment, we divide whats one, into two. Heaven and hell - are one, just we divide them into two. All these realms of existence are one, we just divide them into six.
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BlueCoyote
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"[...]I imagine that if there are realms beyond this one, they are extremely complex, and I'm sure there would be some sort of hierarchy.[...]" This touched me, and I didn't read the whole thread yet. It touched me, because it's the opposite of what I experienced and could describe.
It becomes more and more simple, obvious and true. That's why all the holy cerubins are singing to praise, and all angels are just only a kind of mechanic thing, and that's how the hierarchy is working. It's obvious, simple and true
But it's also true that towards down here onto material realm, there is some twisting going on. It's like mirroring. Basically once you get it, it confirms itself. It's about the value. Keep you eyes and ears open.
edit:There's a battle raging in paradise.
Edited by BlueCoyote (01/15/18 01:52 PM)
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BrendanFlock
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So the atman, ain or sun(all seeing eye on top of the pyramid)(The temple of the orient)(novus ordo seclorum) is the above.. and it is with these principles and governance that there we deligate and dictate through true will the idea of the higher consciousness to the lower being or small mind(ala Zen) which is termed the below.
The 33rd degree Grandmaster Inspector Mason.. means someone who has attained the upper level of ruach consciousness.. which always reflects profoundly on the soul.. in motive and motion, in intelligence and the seat of Hod.. or otherwise the messanger.. that carries Satans image/teaching down to the below via the kundalini..Yoga is an atman science..
We see this with the reflections of Arjuna about Brahma or any Son of God To God.. which is the verily path of the apotheosis.. which is an attempt of the below or micro person/will.. to achieve greater or great mind! The big mind of zen so to speak..
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alfonseelrick
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24916383 - 01/15/18 05:20 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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spiritual realms domt consist of up nor down but different dimensions..... i believe you are confused....
-------------------- Im just a fictional character everything stated by me is purely fictional and simply lies, those who like me are liars who where bribed or blackmailed in some way Muahahaha
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Icelander
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Yeah I'm sure of it. It was just a comment of his on a live interview on youtube. When I come across it again I'll PM it to you. It surprised me too because Jungs own NDE was pretty fantastic.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/15/18 07:16 PM)
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Icelander
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Quote:
alfonseelrick said: spiritual realms domt consist of up nor down but different dimensions..... i believe you are confused....
I'm just repeating what the spiritual teacher said. I don't necessary believe it. But if there is a higher realm and what they say is true then we have to face the idea that those realms are much like here or a reflection of here.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Typerwritermonky
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Quote:
alfonseelrick said: spiritual realms domt consist of up nor down but different dimensions..... i believe you are confused....
This is true; only our current existence comprises of up and down. The other dimensions are six, but equivalent in terms of on the planes.
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Icelander
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Then the term "as above so below" that has been passed down through spiritual antiquity by many spiritual leaders is incorrect? Do I have that right?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BlueCoyote
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24918158 - 01/16/18 12:06 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think they are directly linked, that's all I can see, meaning, if something happens up then something happens below too. But I also see that direct connection sometimes act in a 180 degree opposite angle. And multiple events up or down can have singular related events down and up. The causation seems circular, spiraling and screwing. Maybe this linkage is all what the saying is saying about
Edited by BlueCoyote (01/16/18 12:58 PM)
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Icelander
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Why would they say "as above so below" and not take into account all the horrible things that can happen on earth? Is there really that many things spiritual people say that they actually mean or that they've thought out to a logical conclusion? Sometimes I wonder. You point out anything unpleasant or contradictory in what they say and you start to hear all kinds of strange rationalizations. It often reminds me of what I see in the Political forum. I'm not saying there's no spiritual reality but how much do we actually know about it compared to what we claim to actually know?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/16/18 01:15 PM)
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BlueCoyote
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24918624 - 01/16/18 03:39 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes, for me this saying is like a mocking. People know the above and below are connected, but hey have no real clue about how.
I don't understand why people can't realize that it, in fact is quite simple.
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BrendanFlock
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24919190 - 01/16/18 07:32 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Then the term "as above so below" that has been passed down through spiritual antiquity by many spiritual leaders is incorrect? Do I have that right?
No its about the elders at the top of the pyramid teaching the younglings at the bottom..
Thus the direction from above to below..
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BrendanFlock
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It could also be taking a teaching from your higher self..
Or projecting as if you have the higher consciousness and directing/teaching your self
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MarkostheGnostic
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alfonseelrick said: spiritual realms domt consist of up nor down but different dimensions..... i believe you are confused....
Like all language pertaining to non-physical domains, this language is not literal. You are being literal. The "As Above, So Below," is excerpted from the first two of 14 lines of The Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus. 1. Tis true without lying, certain & most true. 2. That which is below is like that which is above & that which is above is like that which is below to do the miracles of one only thing - Sir Isaac Newton's translation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet
There is an implicit notion of a 'higher,' which is to say a transcendental, more inclusive domain such as that which the Platonic and Neoplatonic sources maintain. Or again, the Four Worlds which the glyph of the Kabbalistic Tree is said to exist in. In these philosophic systems, a Realm of Pure Ideas is said to contain the archetypes of individual objects and forms in the physical world. In Christianity, this 'higher' world is the Logos/Son/Christ of which "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." - John 1:3
This idea is reiterated by Philo of Alexandria the Jewish Platonist who wrote at length on the Logos. Philo's Logos ideas was appropriated by the gospel author named John in his Prologue (Pro-Logos). John's gospel begins with. "In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God and the Logos was God..." UNFORTUNATELY, one of the English meanings of Logos is 'word,' so we all read the word "word" and not Logos in John's Prologue. The "word" in the Prologue does not refer to the written word, but rather the second hypostasis in trinitarian theology, the Son or Logos. This is the 'higher' (obviously not a literal designation of place) realm. The Logos is the Eternal Mind of God containing the archetypes, the seeds of all existence. It is the manifest God over and against the unmanifested Godhead (the Father).
Bottom line: Above or Higher suggest ontological priority, a realm which is 'more real' than those 'below.' Eg., the Creator has ontological priority over the creation. Everything created has contingent and dependent existence.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (01/16/18 08:36 PM)
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BrendanFlock
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Thats perfectly true..!
Thanks for that Markos..
So if you were to evaluate yorself self and give your self a title or rank amongst the hierarchy of the cosmos.. what would it be?
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MarkostheGnostic
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That would be what a young woman called me when I picked her up hitch-hiking at night alone decades ago, and I drove her to her destination without coming on to her or being impolite in any way (that is not me). She said "Thanks! You're a real human being." I'm a real human being.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Then the term "as above so below" that has been passed down through spiritual antiquity by many spiritual leaders is incorrect? Do I have that right?
No its about the elders at the top of the pyramid teaching the younglings at the bottom..
Thus the direction from above to below..
I'm afraid that doesn't make any sense imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BrendanFlock
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Re: As Above So Below? [Re: Icelander]
#24919532 - 01/16/18 10:10 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Or the concept of Adam Kadmon.. which says that everything comes from the same material.. or a witness in this case!
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Icelander
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If it all comes from the same material then why wouldn't the negativity of below not also be above?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BrendanFlock
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The Adam Cad, cardinal directions.. The soul.. all these primary ideas about self and origin..
Although the soul itself is a medium and so it is in the middle.. but having the high and low projected from.. or otherwise the "yoke" of yoga.. because we all kmow the color of the soul.. is orange yellowish..
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BrendanFlock
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Well the below could just be a microcosm in and of itself.. it doesnt have to negative as in a bad sense..
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Icelander
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It seems that only humans see things in terms like good and bad. Nature doesn't seem to care and that actually makes compassionate people sad.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BlueCoyote
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I'm sorry, but you don't make any sense to me
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BrendanFlock
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Hmm, well the more conscious an animal is.. the more it can discern between good and bad right and wrong etc
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alfonseelrick
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As above so below is metaphoric... Like saying high vibrations and lower vibrations. It doesnt mean they are in a different altitude of space...
-------------------- Im just a fictional character everything stated by me is purely fictional and simply lies, those who like me are liars who where bribed or blackmailed in some way Muahahaha
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BrendanFlock
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Well space is absolute so In that resepct were all at the same level..
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