Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags   North Spore Boomr Bag   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   OlympusMyco.com No Unicorns Here—Just Quality Bags That Work   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlinetjukken
Stranger
Registered: 01/07/18
Posts: 3
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help.
    #24896829 - 01/07/18 04:21 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Hello !

I have successfully done one pf-tek so far. I realized that if I invested in the right equipment, then I could get a lot more shrooms from the same amount of work. So I invested.

Anyway, my bulk substrate takes forever to colonize.
I have tried to follow the Damion 50-50 tek. Simple right? Right.

This is the mix:
5 quarts/liters of spawn (rye, at least ¾ full)
About 650 grams of coco coir. (I have biig bricks, have to weigh them)
About 20 grams of gypsum (I’m not sure if remember correctly, it might have been more.  But it should have been the right amount, 3-5 % by volume.)
4 quarts of water.
2 quarts of vermiculite.

I have done the exact same thing with two tubs. So 10 quarts of spawn total.
I really mixed the coco coir, vermiculite and gypsum while it was pasteurizing. Squeezed the coco coir, about 4-5 drops of water came out. Right amount of water, right? Or maybe I didn’t squeeze enough?

And I really mixed in the spawn after that.

After about a month its still not colonized, id guess maybe 70 – 80 %. Seems to have stalled. My guess was that it is too much water. So, I tried to open the lids for about 24 hours on both tubs, and on one of the tubs I tried to mix the whole thing and let It recolonize. It seems to be kind of working on the tub that I mixed. The top layer is a lot whiter now. (about 4 days after mixing) But the inside seems to not be colonized, its supposed to be all white right?

Here is some pictures from both tubs on about day 40:

Mixed:







Not mixed:







After that I thought I’d try less water and slightly higher spawn to
substrate ratio in a minitub. 

This is the mix:
2 quarts spawn (rye, at least ¾)
240 g coco coir.
Exactly 1.3 liter water.
0.8 quart vermiculite.
2 BIG tablespoons of gypsum (too much?)

I covered the mini tub in a plastic bag and sealed it. Didn’t even peak before day 3. Not much has happened, a patch or two of mycelium. Opened it today to see and let it get some fresh air(2 days later), seems to be about the same amount. Maybe slightly more.

Pictures of mini monotub on day 5:




I feel like I’ve done everything correctly, especially on the mini tub. Obviously, I have not. My mushroom career has gone so smoothly until now. 
Hopefully some of you can identify the problem or guide me in the right direction. I really don’t know anymore.

I’m starting to suspect that I have bought the wrong type of coco coir or something.

Please help.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemushpunx
Fungus Punk
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: tjukken]
    #24896918 - 01/07/18 04:50 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Don't seal the tub in a plastic bag. I'm not sure why you are doing that. It could be suffocating the sub a little bit.

There isn't really a proper recipe with coir, its just a guide really.

I use a brick per tub (you can cut + weigh with the big bricks like you have). A couple quarts verm, I just grab a handful of gypsum and toss it in.
In a bucket with 3-4 quarts boiling water + cap.

If its too wet, I add in more verm until it hits field capacity. Too dry, I add some more water.

I doubt its your substrate. Its most likely the spawn, probably bacteria. 

I would start fresh. Scrap those tubs. If you aren't already, learn to use agar to get a clean culture to inoculate your grain with.
And lose the bags


--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinehamloafM
Q-dood ®©™√
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 24,389
Loc: ation: Based.
Last seen: 7 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: mushpunx]
    #24896969 - 01/07/18 05:05 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Bulk sub prep sounds good.  The spawn is bad which could lead back to dirty inoculum, and/or bad sterile technique.


--------------------
     
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblenube424
Male
Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: tjukken]
    #24897029 - 01/07/18 05:26 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Coir usually does that to me when its too wet. But if u squeezed it out like u said, probly bacterial spawn

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: nube424]
    #24897041 - 01/07/18 05:31 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Pics of jars before spawning?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepsilocyanide
Terry-Flappinsworth
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 06/20/12
Posts: 235
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: krypto2000]
    #24897210 - 01/07/18 06:55 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Pics of jars before spawning?



:whathesaid:


--------------------
:minigun:                  \\:freewilly:\\

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekeeno
enthusiast
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 2,696
Loc: UK Flag
Last seen: 14 days, 21 hours
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: psilocyanide]
    #24897824 - 01/08/18 02:57 AM (7 years, 10 days ago)

:popcorn:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShroomway
It's me!
Male


Registered: 07/05/17
Posts: 438
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: keeno]
    #24897888 - 01/08/18 04:36 AM (7 years, 9 days ago)

:popcorn:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblenube424
Male
Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: hamloaf]
    #24897899 - 01/08/18 04:51 AM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Upon looking at the pics closer. Ur substrate looks like it was too dry to begin with. Look at the 2nd pic close. Extremely dry. So dry it couldnt spread probly. If others see the same thing as me, tell this dude so he can dunk it asap

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetjukken
Stranger

Registered: 01/07/18
Posts: 3
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: nube424]
    #24900766 - 01/09/18 01:26 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

First, thanks alot for the help so far.

Quote:

mushpunx said:
Don't seal the tub in a plastic bag. I'm not sure why you are doing that. It could be suffocating the sub a little bit.

There isn't really a proper recipe with coir, its just a guide really.

I use a brick per tub (you can cut + weigh with the big bricks like you have). A couple quarts verm, I just grab a handful of gypsum and toss it in.
In a bucket with 3-4 quarts boiling water + cap.

If its too wet, I add in more verm until it hits field capacity. Too dry, I add some more water.

I doubt its your substrate. Its most likely the spawn, probably bacteria. 

I would start fresh. Scrap those tubs. If you aren't already, learn to use agar to get a clean culture to inoculate your grain with.
And lose the bags




The bags is there to let the c02 build up and to reduce FAE i believe. I only bagged the minitub, not the two big ones.

Until field capacity? That means that you add water until the substrate can not hold any more water, right? Does not sound right to me.


Quote:

hamloaf said:
Bulk sub prep sounds good.  The spawn is bad which could lead back to dirty inoculum, and/or bad sterile technique.




Hm okay. But do you guys think that all 3 tubs could be infected? This is jars made at different times and from different syringes.

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Pics of jars before spawning?




Right. Now i did not take pictures of these jars,dont know if it helps, but i do have pictures of the jars for the next batch. And they do look exactly the same as the previous ones, just less colonized obviously.

Here they are:










Quote:

nube424 said:
Upon looking at the pics closer. Ur substrate looks like it was too dry to begin with. Look at the 2nd pic close. Extremely dry. So dry it couldnt spread probly. If others see the same thing as me, tell this dude so he can dunk it asap




That is probably the flash on camera that makes it look dry. Though, i can try. Nothing to loose.


Anyway, seems to me that the conclusion is bacteria. But all 3 tubs ?? Really?

Edited by tjukken (01/09/18 01:27 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: tjukken]
    #24900801 - 01/09/18 01:48 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Those jars look healthy to me provided they fully colonize. I agree your sub looks kind of dry, but it's hard to tell and I didn't question it as it should be pretty obvious.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemushpunx
Fungus Punk
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: krypto2000]
    #24900917 - 01/09/18 02:24 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

"The bags is there to let the c02 build up and to reduce FAE i believe. I only bagged the minitub, not the two big ones.

Until field capacity? That means that you add water until the substrate can not hold any more water, right? Does not sound right to me."

A tub with a lid on/holes covered is not getting any FAE. Also there is no reason to let the Co2 build while the substrate is colonizing.
I actually put my substrates into fruiting conditions directly after spawning them.
If I were you I would just drop the bag.

Field capacity would be when you grab a handful of substrate it doesn't drip, but when you squeeze it hard you get a tiny stream of water from your knuckles.

"


"Hm okay. But do you guys think that all 3 tubs could be infected? This is jars made at different times and from different syringes."

Could very well be, especially if your technique needs improvement. But spore syringes can be dirty too


--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: mushpunx]
    #24900922 - 01/09/18 02:27 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

The bag is not the reason for failure though, it may or may not be a bad practice, but it's not the source of failure. If it's contaminated it came from the spawn, it had to. Either the syringe was contaminated, the grain wasn't PCed properly, or it was introduced somewhere in your technique. If it's from a reliable vendor and you trust your PCer and PC time then it's your technique. The only alternative I see is environmental such as the substrate being too dry.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinehamloafM
Q-dood ®©™√
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 24,389
Loc: ation: Based.
Last seen: 7 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: tjukken]
    #24901387 - 01/09/18 06:04 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Hm okay. But do you guys think that all 3 tubs could be infected? This is jars made at different times and from different syringes.



Yes. 
Bad technique.


--------------------
     
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemushpunx
Fungus Punk
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: krypto2000]
    #24901617 - 01/09/18 07:21 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
The bag is not the reason for failure though, it may or may not be a bad practice, but it's not the source of failure. If it's contaminated it came from the spawn, it had to. Either the syringe was contaminated, the grain wasn't PCed properly, or it was introduced somewhere in your technique. If it's from a reliable vendor and you trust your PCer and PC time then it's your technique. The only alternative I see is environmental such as the substrate being too dry.




The bag certainly doesn't help but yea its the spawn.

No matter what vendor you get syringes  its better to germinate the spores on agar and transfer until you have a clean culture to inoculate with. More times than not when inoculating spores from syringe on agar I have to transfer away from bacteria. BRF cakes are forgiving enough for spore syringes but the same spores will often contaminate grains


--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebam
OG
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 96
Loc: Freetown, Sierra Leone Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: mushpunx]
    #24901719 - 01/09/18 08:00 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

Looks dry to me and the recipee he followed seems like it was missing a qt of water to begin with to account for the verm.

650g cc 4qt h2o
2qts verm 1 qt h2o



I doubled the verm which is from somebody else’s recipe to begin with. Don’t remember who but thanks
It went like this and its what is use
650g cc 4qt h2o
4qts verm 2qt h2o
1qt worm castings
1/4 gypsum

Thanks whoever recipe that is.



You should’ve dunked those grains you would prolly still be good with your dry bulk sub ijs


Thanks BOD


--------------------
"%$@#! the Police"


NWA, BAM

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: bam]
    #24902888 - 01/10/18 11:07 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

That may be light on the water, but it should be good enough to at least fruit. I use 4.5qts water, 650g coir, 2qts verm, 1/4-1/2qt gypsum. When I squeeze the mix some water comes out, but not much. I would imagine those worm casings are already at field capacity, assuming that that recipe actually should then contain more water than mine.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags   North Spore Boomr Bag   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   OlympusMyco.com No Unicorns Here—Just Quality Bags That Work   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* on bulk substrates, about mycelium wastes Enoch 1,283 1 10/25/02 01:46 PM
by SixTango
* rye colonizing. bulk substrate ? walt 5,124 5 07/10/02 03:14 AM
by walt
* bulk substrate question yogithehoneybear 3,956 7 06/07/01 12:38 AM
by egolesss
* Bulk Substrate KatatoniK 5,817 2 05/25/02 05:10 PM
by Roadkill
* Best bulk substrate and casing? mycologist 11,912 8 09/09/01 04:47 PM
by Shdwstr
* Rye Grain As Bulk Substrate thug 15,167 3 08/30/01 12:00 AM
by Anno
* straight straw as a bulk substrate? Victor 5,534 7 09/28/02 04:56 PM
by babyshroom
* Hydra pod and bulk substrates... Apexx 1,012 2 10/29/02 07:47 PM
by Apexx

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, hamloaf, cronicr, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
612 topic views. 9 members, 47 guests and 16 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2025 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.022 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 12 queries.