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tjukken
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Registered: 01/07/18
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What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help.
#24896829 - 01/07/18 04:21 PM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
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Hello !
I have successfully done one pf-tek so far. I realized that if I invested in the right equipment, then I could get a lot more shrooms from the same amount of work. So I invested.
Anyway, my bulk substrate takes forever to colonize. I have tried to follow the Damion 50-50 tek. Simple right? Right.
This is the mix: 5 quarts/liters of spawn (rye, at least ¾ full) About 650 grams of coco coir. (I have biig bricks, have to weigh them) About 20 grams of gypsum (I’m not sure if remember correctly, it might have been more. But it should have been the right amount, 3-5 % by volume.) 4 quarts of water. 2 quarts of vermiculite.
I have done the exact same thing with two tubs. So 10 quarts of spawn total. I really mixed the coco coir, vermiculite and gypsum while it was pasteurizing. Squeezed the coco coir, about 4-5 drops of water came out. Right amount of water, right? Or maybe I didn’t squeeze enough?
And I really mixed in the spawn after that.
After about a month its still not colonized, id guess maybe 70 – 80 %. Seems to have stalled. My guess was that it is too much water. So, I tried to open the lids for about 24 hours on both tubs, and on one of the tubs I tried to mix the whole thing and let It recolonize. It seems to be kind of working on the tub that I mixed. The top layer is a lot whiter now. (about 4 days after mixing) But the inside seems to not be colonized, its supposed to be all white right?
Here is some pictures from both tubs on about day 40:
Mixed:



Not mixed:



After that I thought I’d try less water and slightly higher spawn to substrate ratio in a minitub.
This is the mix: 2 quarts spawn (rye, at least ¾) 240 g coco coir. Exactly 1.3 liter water. 0.8 quart vermiculite. 2 BIG tablespoons of gypsum (too much?)
I covered the mini tub in a plastic bag and sealed it. Didn’t even peak before day 3. Not much has happened, a patch or two of mycelium. Opened it today to see and let it get some fresh air(2 days later), seems to be about the same amount. Maybe slightly more.
Pictures of mini monotub on day 5:

I feel like I’ve done everything correctly, especially on the mini tub. Obviously, I have not. My mushroom career has gone so smoothly until now. Hopefully some of you can identify the problem or guide me in the right direction. I really don’t know anymore.
I’m starting to suspect that I have bought the wrong type of coco coir or something.
Please help.
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: tjukken]
#24896918 - 01/07/18 04:50 PM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
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Don't seal the tub in a plastic bag. I'm not sure why you are doing that. It could be suffocating the sub a little bit.
There isn't really a proper recipe with coir, its just a guide really.
I use a brick per tub (you can cut + weigh with the big bricks like you have). A couple quarts verm, I just grab a handful of gypsum and toss it in. In a bucket with 3-4 quarts boiling water + cap.
If its too wet, I add in more verm until it hits field capacity. Too dry, I add some more water.
I doubt its your substrate. Its most likely the spawn, probably bacteria.
I would start fresh. Scrap those tubs. If you aren't already, learn to use agar to get a clean culture to inoculate your grain with. And lose the bags
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hamloaf
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: mushpunx]
#24896969 - 01/07/18 05:05 PM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
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Bulk sub prep sounds good. The spawn is bad which could lead back to dirty inoculum, and/or bad sterile technique.
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: tjukken]
#24897029 - 01/07/18 05:26 PM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
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Coir usually does that to me when its too wet. But if u squeezed it out like u said, probly bacterial spawn
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krypto2000
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Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: nube424]
#24897041 - 01/07/18 05:31 PM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
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Pics of jars before spawning?
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psilocyanide
Terry-Flappinsworth



Registered: 06/20/12
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: krypto2000]
#24897210 - 01/07/18 06:55 PM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Pics of jars before spawning?
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keeno
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Registered: 06/01/11
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: psilocyanide]
#24897824 - 01/08/18 02:57 AM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
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Shroomway
It's me!



Registered: 07/05/17
Posts: 438
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: keeno]
#24897888 - 01/08/18 04:36 AM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
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nube424

Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 6,063
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: hamloaf]
#24897899 - 01/08/18 04:51 AM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
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Upon looking at the pics closer. Ur substrate looks like it was too dry to begin with. Look at the 2nd pic close. Extremely dry. So dry it couldnt spread probly. If others see the same thing as me, tell this dude so he can dunk it asap
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tjukken
Stranger

Registered: 01/07/18
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Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: nube424]
#24900766 - 01/09/18 01:26 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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First, thanks alot for the help so far.
Quote:
mushpunx said: Don't seal the tub in a plastic bag. I'm not sure why you are doing that. It could be suffocating the sub a little bit.
There isn't really a proper recipe with coir, its just a guide really.
I use a brick per tub (you can cut + weigh with the big bricks like you have). A couple quarts verm, I just grab a handful of gypsum and toss it in. In a bucket with 3-4 quarts boiling water + cap.
If its too wet, I add in more verm until it hits field capacity. Too dry, I add some more water.
I doubt its your substrate. Its most likely the spawn, probably bacteria.
I would start fresh. Scrap those tubs. If you aren't already, learn to use agar to get a clean culture to inoculate your grain with. And lose the bags
The bags is there to let the c02 build up and to reduce FAE i believe. I only bagged the minitub, not the two big ones.
Until field capacity? That means that you add water until the substrate can not hold any more water, right? Does not sound right to me.
Quote:
hamloaf said: Bulk sub prep sounds good. The spawn is bad which could lead back to dirty inoculum, and/or bad sterile technique.
Hm okay. But do you guys think that all 3 tubs could be infected? This is jars made at different times and from different syringes.
Quote:
krypto2000 said: Pics of jars before spawning?
Right. Now i did not take pictures of these jars,dont know if it helps, but i do have pictures of the jars for the next batch. And they do look exactly the same as the previous ones, just less colonized obviously.
Here they are:



Quote:
nube424 said: Upon looking at the pics closer. Ur substrate looks like it was too dry to begin with. Look at the 2nd pic close. Extremely dry. So dry it couldnt spread probly. If others see the same thing as me, tell this dude so he can dunk it asap
That is probably the flash on camera that makes it look dry. Though, i can try. Nothing to loose.
Anyway, seems to me that the conclusion is bacteria. But all 3 tubs ?? Really?
Edited by tjukken (01/09/18 01:27 PM)
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krypto2000
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: tjukken]
#24900801 - 01/09/18 01:48 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Those jars look healthy to me provided they fully colonize. I agree your sub looks kind of dry, but it's hard to tell and I didn't question it as it should be pretty obvious.
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: krypto2000]
#24900917 - 01/09/18 02:24 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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"The bags is there to let the c02 build up and to reduce FAE i believe. I only bagged the minitub, not the two big ones.
Until field capacity? That means that you add water until the substrate can not hold any more water, right? Does not sound right to me."
A tub with a lid on/holes covered is not getting any FAE. Also there is no reason to let the Co2 build while the substrate is colonizing. I actually put my substrates into fruiting conditions directly after spawning them. If I were you I would just drop the bag.
Field capacity would be when you grab a handful of substrate it doesn't drip, but when you squeeze it hard you get a tiny stream of water from your knuckles.
"
"Hm okay. But do you guys think that all 3 tubs could be infected? This is jars made at different times and from different syringes."
Could very well be, especially if your technique needs improvement. But spore syringes can be dirty too
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krypto2000
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: mushpunx]
#24900922 - 01/09/18 02:27 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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The bag is not the reason for failure though, it may or may not be a bad practice, but it's not the source of failure. If it's contaminated it came from the spawn, it had to. Either the syringe was contaminated, the grain wasn't PCed properly, or it was introduced somewhere in your technique. If it's from a reliable vendor and you trust your PCer and PC time then it's your technique. The only alternative I see is environmental such as the substrate being too dry.
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hamloaf
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Registered: 12/23/09
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: tjukken]
#24901387 - 01/09/18 06:04 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hm okay. But do you guys think that all 3 tubs could be infected? This is jars made at different times and from different syringes.
Yes. Bad technique.
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: krypto2000]
#24901617 - 01/09/18 07:21 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: The bag is not the reason for failure though, it may or may not be a bad practice, but it's not the source of failure. If it's contaminated it came from the spawn, it had to. Either the syringe was contaminated, the grain wasn't PCed properly, or it was introduced somewhere in your technique. If it's from a reliable vendor and you trust your PCer and PC time then it's your technique. The only alternative I see is environmental such as the substrate being too dry.
The bag certainly doesn't help but yea its the spawn.
No matter what vendor you get syringes its better to germinate the spores on agar and transfer until you have a clean culture to inoculate with. More times than not when inoculating spores from syringe on agar I have to transfer away from bacteria. BRF cakes are forgiving enough for spore syringes but the same spores will often contaminate grains
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bam
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: mushpunx]
#24901719 - 01/09/18 08:00 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Looks dry to me and the recipee he followed seems like it was missing a qt of water to begin with to account for the verm.
650g cc 4qt h2o 2qts verm 1 qt h2o
I doubled the verm which is from somebody else’s recipe to begin with. Don’t remember who but thanks It went like this and its what is use 650g cc 4qt h2o 4qts verm 2qt h2o 1qt worm castings 1/4 gypsum
Thanks whoever recipe that is.
You should’ve dunked those grains you would prolly still be good with your dry bulk sub ijs
Thanks BOD
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krypto2000
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Re: What is wrong with my bulk substrate? 12 jars wasted so far. Please help. [Re: bam]
#24902888 - 01/10/18 11:07 AM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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That may be light on the water, but it should be good enough to at least fruit. I use 4.5qts water, 650g coir, 2qts verm, 1/4-1/2qt gypsum. When I squeeze the mix some water comes out, but not much. I would imagine those worm casings are already at field capacity, assuming that that recipe actually should then contain more water than mine.
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