Home | Community | Message Board


MRCA Tyroler Gluckspilze
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Amazon ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Mycobags

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Offlinepsilocyanide
Terry-Flappinsworth
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 235
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof?
    #24882039 - 12/31/17 10:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

A while back, I always was told that you can shake once (or twice if you needd it) before spawning or g2g.  More recently, mostly everyone says that the second shake is detrimental.  The reason given is that the mycelium is weakened. 

I am wondering where this change of thought came from... did someone do an experiment?  Is there any data supporting it?  What happened that changed everyone's mind?

I am undecided to which I believe.  I find both of these arguments compelling:

Quote:

Munchauzen said:

everytime you shake your cubes, you are weakening the culture. this is why you want to reduce the number of shakes to as few as possible. 1 shake, at 30% is all you want.

no need to experiment when this shit has been thousands of times before you and figured out already. 




Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I don't believe in the weakening mycelium from shakes hypothesis. Is there real evidence that it reduced yield or performance ? I've left jars at 100 shook, forgot to spawn. So shook again the next week. Those jars get shook 3-4 times vs 1-2. If there's a difference its basically immeasurable




After the time that people started saying that its bad, I see everyone agree, but ive only seen one person say otherwise so far (in the second quote). 

Sometimes I wonder that if someone that's reputable here says something, its taken automatically as truth after enough people hear it.  Im not saying its wrong, just wondering if someone could point me to a thread with any hard evidence for or against the idea?

Thanks for reading.


--------------------
:minigun:                  \\:freewilly:\\


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleZiran
The Hero of Time
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 5,959
Loc: Temple of Time
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: psilocyanide]
    #24882070 - 12/31/17 11:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Eh its hit or miss. clean spawn will preform reguardless of shakes. Most likely the shake at 30% would aid the culture in colonizing the jar quicker.


--------------------
Song Of Healing
:super: Updated Pf Tek Guide :super:
Ziran's Teks
AMU Q&A Thread
The Chinese word for nature is zìrán and it means that of which is of itself.



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinecronicrM
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,362
Loc: Van Isle Flag
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: Ziran]
    #24882080 - 12/31/17 11:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Shake 4 times if ya want


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepsilocyanide
Terry-Flappinsworth
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 235
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: Ziran]
    #24882157 - 12/31/17 11:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ziran said:
Eh its hit or miss. clean spawn will preform reguardless of shakes. Most likely the shake at 30% would aid the culture in colonizing the jar quicker.





I have jars started with lc, agar, and spores.  Would you do the same thing no matter the innoculant?


--------------------
:minigun:                  \\:freewilly:\\


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OnlinemushboyM
99.99% filtration
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 25,134
Loc: better trashcan
Last seen: 43 seconds
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: cronicr]
    #24882197 - 01/01/18 12:14 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Shake 4 times if ya want




no more though cause then its playing with yourself:nono:

its more about WHY you need to shake a jar 50 times than it is the act. why shake more than twice MAX? all other reasons for a third are sketch.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepsilocyanide
Terry-Flappinsworth
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 235
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: mushboy]
    #24882234 - 01/01/18 12:41 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
Shake 4 times if ya want




no more though cause then its playing with yourself:nono:

its more about WHY you need to shake a jar 50 times than it is the act. why shake more than twice MAX? all other reasons for a third are sketch.




shaking is fun  :freewilly:


--------------------
:minigun:                  \\:freewilly:\\


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTheDarkHeart
Bad Attitude 24/7 \M/
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/05/17
Posts: 260
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: psilocyanide]
    #24882336 - 01/01/18 01:26 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I got something that you can shake.

lol all kidding aside. i just had the same question. I trust bod and that clean mycelium performs like it's supposed to. the common sense of the 30% colonization before a shake just clicked. still arbitrary, but still makes sense.

maybe taboos arose from people not understanding the difference between a good common sense recommendation and inarguable requirements?

makes sense to me that a jar that does not recover has something wrong with it. 

now this is just me doing some ignorant guessing: once the mycelium starts growing on a grain it's got it's food source. doesn't need to be connected with all the other mycelium. that's why Agar to agar transfers work so well. it's a fungus! more animal than plant, but still not an animal. that actually makes me curious about cloning and individual fruit genetics. what multi spore spawns are really and whether or not multiple transfers isolates a genetic variation.

i don't feel like asking that question though. maybe i will learn it eventually and naturally.

or not so naturally. maybe you could help me out with that. lol


--------------------
"Those who believe that they are exclusively in the right are generally those who achieve something." - Aldous Huxley


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAtlantis Reaction
Stranger
Registered: 07/04/17
Posts: 184
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: TheDarkHeart]
    #24882353 - 01/01/18 01:37 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I dont shake because those are the only jars that ever get contaminated... fucking polyfil... same reason i dont stack jars anymore:(


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleZiran
The Hero of Time
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 5,959
Loc: Temple of Time
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: cronicr]
    #24882488 - 01/01/18 03:51 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ziran said:
Eh its hit or miss. clean spawn will preform reguardless of shakes. Most likely the shake at 30% would aid the culture in colonizing the jar quicker.




Quote:

cronicr said:
Shake 4 times if ya want




If its clean spawn it wont matter unless senescence is in play.


--------------------
Song Of Healing
:super: Updated Pf Tek Guide :super:
Ziran's Teks
AMU Q&A Thread
The Chinese word for nature is zìrán and it means that of which is of itself.



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinecronicrM
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,362
Loc: Van Isle Flag
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: Ziran]
    #24882546 - 01/01/18 05:59 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah old school dudes like citric used to do multiple shakes..it doesn't harm anything and some even swore they got faster colonization with it bit comm9n ground is once at 30 is more then enough.


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleMrRabbit-HMR
Professional Duck Washer


Registered: 08/20/17
Posts: 260
Loc: UK Flag
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: cronicr]
    #24882565 - 01/01/18 06:40 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I also shake at 30%, then after full colonization, I shake again. If the mycelium recovers within a day or two, it gets spawned to bulk (after another small shake to break up grain). If it doesn't recover (yet still smells ok after opening), I suspect a small bacterial issue and leave it to one side to use in a small tray with a high spawn:sub ratio.

So for me: 3 shakes is never a problem.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTheDarkHeart
Bad Attitude 24/7 \M/
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/05/17
Posts: 260
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: MrRabbit-HMR]
    #24882729 - 01/01/18 10:33 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

interesting recourse Mr. Rabbit


senescence

I learned a new word today.


--------------------
"Those who believe that they are exclusively in the right are generally those who achieve something." - Aldous Huxley


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,202
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: TheDarkHeart]
    #24882764 - 01/01/18 11:07 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

For the most part the only mycelium harmed is the external mycelium. Grain and agar transfers recover so much faster than liquid culture because there's still mycelium that's just fine protected within the material, whereas LC has to make its home.  But even if you shake jars after inoculating with liquid culture and batter the hell out of all the mycelium that hasn't yet dug into the grains, you'll eventually see recovery, since you didn't kill all the cells.  Mycelium is hardy.

Reasons you might want to avoid the shake are resetting the progress into the growth cycle (for specific types of grows like mine, this doesn't count when you plan to break up the grains to use as 'spawn')  and digging a bit further into the nutrition of the grains (you're quite unlikely to see a noteworthy difference, as is stated in the OP's second quote).

Chances are those would-be "drawbacks" are nowhere near as detrimental as shaking to distribute growth is helpful.

Shaking jars can help to reveal any otherwise-hidden contaminants, if the sterility of your transfers is in question.

You don't really need to worry about senescence in jars headed to final grow-outs. And if you regularly return to a younger culture source you are unlikely to ever see what it looks like.

There's nothing definitively bad about shaking that matters, and a lot of good.
Just only do it when called for, otherwise you may actually end up slowing the process down.



--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTheDarkHeart
Bad Attitude 24/7 \M/
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/05/17
Posts: 260
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: Violet]
    #24882802 - 01/01/18 11:37 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

to avoid a shake for fear that contamination is present is like burying your head in the sand. nothing makes better sense. don't have to think about that one twice.

half of the point is to reveal contaminants not ignore them. i fear my impatience. i fear my avoidance of the "next step." And i fear disappointment.  but these must all be faced. and destroyed! lol JK. and how will you do this? with help; you're ability to take instruction and criticism; ingenuity and your own initiative!

Jk here too. this is a rant that has nothing to do with this thread. sorry if i sound crazy.  the below works for me and my life. you probably won't like it.
this might sound like a kiss ass thing to do, but don't ever argue with your superiors and betters. eat that poo sandwich and smile while your doin' it! be happy about it. follow all the rules. everything in between and not sated is fair game.

some of that sounded like a north korean propoganda piece...




sorry guys. had to remind myself of something. it's the gears talking


--------------------
"Those who believe that they are exclusively in the right are generally those who achieve something." - Aldous Huxley


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblelionsmanenew
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 12/21/17
Posts: 32
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? *DELETED* [Re: psilocyanide]
    #25278259 - 06/19/18 09:04 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by lionsmanenew

Reason for deletion: apparently it should be a new thread


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleStraight Mush
Mush lover
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/08/18
Posts: 511
Re: Shaking Jars Twice = Bad...Proof? [Re: lionsmanenew]
    #25278602 - 06/19/18 01:04 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lionsmanenew said:
Hi All,

Noob here on second bulk grain attempt. First was a failure - it seemed my jars all turned to slush after shaking the first time.

I've got 3 mycobags on the go, with 3 jars too (so don't have to rebuy syringes).

I'm a bit paranoid that I've managed to damage the bigger jar's contents - as it looks like it's going to a watery grave. See pics.

I've been planning to transfer these into a further bulk mycobag - using Ohm's Tek.

I was very happy with the moisture content on completing my jars/bags about 2 weeks ago (after a wet first attempt).

The jars seem to be going very slowly - 2 weeks + now!

The big jar got a good shaking and now I can see condensation all over.

Am I going wrong with the shaking here do you think? Or, is it something else?

The jars have 4 drilled holes covered with micropore. The temps are running at just under 30 C.

Does this big jar need to be chucked out? If can be saved - presumably remove excess moisure somehow?

Also, how long can properly steralized mycobags last? I've done 3 and injected 5ml spores from syringe into the sides (at same time as jars). One bag was done a few day earlier - I broke up it's mycellium growth and spread through bag as a test. This one now has no sign of growth and is also looking wet inside.

What am I do doing wrong with the shaking and why is it getting wet after the grain mositure level seemed so good after completing tek.

Any help for my noobly self would be hugely appreciated!






Why did you post this here? Make your own thread


--------------------
When in doubt refer to RR's infamous quotes via the search function


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Amazon ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Mycobags

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Shaking jars may slow growth Swami 2,356 5 03/11/02 10:23 AM
by Swami
* can over shaking jars (whole grain) be a problem? trippy 3,456 18 10/03/02 10:33 PM
by trippy
* [b]Shaking Jars?[/b] SavageHuxley 1,241 7 02/01/03 11:47 AM
by shirley knott
* Shake jars imediatly after steralization or later? d fuNk22 1,886 4 06/12/02 05:42 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* Shaking jars of rye Auditory Misperception 1,293 7 03/03/13 06:35 PM
by Jabbawaya
* Shaking Jars? ble0t 1,270 2 09/19/01 08:00 PM
by oscill8
* Re: shake jars after inoculation?? n8 2,243 8 02/16/00 03:09 PM
by Anonymous
* Jars - Bad? Freezen 1,239 5 05/09/01 09:03 PM
by BrownPastures

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, FooMan, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, stonesun, wildernessjunkie, cronicr, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
2,229 topic views. 6 members, 73 guests and 70 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Sporeworks
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 13 queries.