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WeavieWonder
Time Travel Sucks

Registered: 08/18/16
Posts: 1,455
Loc: USA

Last seen: 3 months, 19 days

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: Threads from God89]

1
#24874918 - 12/28/17 09:59 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crissel said:

Because I am not a chemist / biochemist, just an ordinary engineer. I was hoping someone here working professionally in this area could comment on this.

Basically what I'm getting at. nobody in this thread can offer validity to such a claim.

Edited by WeavieWonder (12/28/17 10:06 PM)

Extras:

crissel

Registered: 03/27/16
Posts: 115

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: WeavieWonder]
#24874970 - 12/28/17 10:21 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
Quote:

crissel said:

Because I am not a chemist / biochemist, just an ordinary engineer. I was hoping someone here working professionally in this area could comment on this.

Basically what I'm getting at. nobody in this thread can offer validity to such a claim.

i still have some access to scientific studies.
And it seems that metabolism of the mushroom is somehow affected by aluminum.
The fruit apparently accumulates the aluminum.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00480549

Quote:

The influence of Al3+ on the mineral content of mycorrhizal fungi was studied in vitro. Amanita muscaria (L. ex Fr.) Pers. ex Hooker whose growth is reduced and Lactarius piperatus (L. ex Fr.) S.F. Gray whose growth is stimulated by Al3+ where chosen for the experiments. 0, 0.1, 1, and 10mM A3+ were added as Al2(SO4)3 · 18H2O to modified M-40 medium. Al3+ drastically affected the mineral contents of the mycelia of both fungi:
the Al, Ca, and Na contents increased while P, Mg, and K decreased with the increasing Al3+ concentrations in the media.
On the other hand, some important differences between the two mycelia were detected. In the mycelia of Lacterius piperatus grown on the control media, there was about twice as much Ca content and a three times lower P content than in the Amanita muscaria mycelia. The Al3+ content in the mycelia of Lactarius piperatus grown on 10mM Al3+ was six times higher than in Amanita muscaria at the same concentration.

Edited by crissel (12/28/17 10:36 PM)

Extras:

WeavieWonder
Time Travel Sucks

Registered: 08/18/16
Posts: 1,455
Loc: USA

Last seen: 3 months, 19 days

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: crissel]
#24875025 - 12/28/17 10:43 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crissel said:

I still have some access to scientific studies.
And it seems that metabolism of the mushroom is somehow affected by aluminum.

The Al3+ content in the mycelia of Lactarius piperatus grown on 10mM Al3+ was six times higher than in Amanita muscaria at the same concentration.

Notice the say the mycelia, and not the fruit bodies. Anyways, my previous statement still stands. Unless an accual person of science and health can chime in....verm oN!

Extras:

crissel

Registered: 03/27/16
Posts: 115

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: WeavieWonder]
#24875061 - 12/28/17 10:57 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I know

:smile:

there is another study on Springer where it states that the fruits grow bigger too.
I just read it 10 min ago but cant find it right now. Will post the link later.

Extras:

bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent

Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? (moved)

[Re: crissel]
#24875127 - 12/28/17 11:35 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.

Reason:
Best fit :shrug:

:shrug:

Extras:

Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? (moved)

[Re: bodhisatta]
#24876037 - 12/29/17 12:40 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

meh the only way to protect yourself from alzheimers is to engage in cardio workouts
keeps the blood young and the brain rewires itself effieciently

--------------------
http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

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spirit_shadow
Beta Crypt 3

Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 27,321
Last seen: 4 minutes, 50 seconds

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: Konyap]
#24876058 - 12/29/17 12:51 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Ive always used verm in.....what was I saying again?

--------------------
Never knows best.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto

Extras:

chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum

Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: crissel]
#24876083 - 12/29/17 01:08 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crissel said:
Hi guys,
I stumbled across a post from RR and it made my think if vermiculite might actually be harmful as a substrate. Since Mushroom prefer an acidic substrate according to RR and vermiculite contains aluminum could it be possible that the mycelium accumulates the aluminum? Aluminum leachings was found to be highest in acidic environments. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that might cause alzheimers and other neurodegenerative diseases.
By eating the shrooms could we poison ourselves?

Quote:

Most mushrooms prefer an acidic substrate. The problem is, so do molds. We lime our casing layers(when used) to make them less hospitable to mold spore germination, while trying to find the upper limit of pH that mushroom mycelium will still thrive.

I wouldn't attempt to lower pH with sulfur or anything like that. Simply use the manure, straw, coir, etc., as it is.
RR

vermiculite = Magnesium Aluminum Iron Silicate

How well can you digest a rock?

I think that the issue with plants and mushrooms storing heavy metals has more to do with them taking up organic compounds with some sort of a heavy metal in them or there being a lot of heavy metal ions dissolved the water that those organisms are taking up. I honestly wouldn't worry too much.

Extras:

chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum

Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: crissel]
#24876086 - 12/29/17 01:11 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crissel said:
Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
Quote:

crissel said:

Because I am not a chemist / biochemist, just an ordinary engineer. I was hoping someone here working professionally in this area could comment on this.

Basically what I'm getting at. nobody in this thread can offer validity to such a claim.

i still have some access to scientific studies.
And it seems that metabolism of the mushroom is somehow affected by aluminum.
The fruit apparently accumulates the aluminum.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00480549
Quote:

The influence of Al3+ on the mineral content of mycorrhizal fungi was studied in vitro. Amanita muscaria (L. ex Fr.) Pers. ex Hooker whose growth is reduced and Lactarius piperatus (L. ex Fr.) S.F. Gray whose growth is stimulated by Al3+ where chosen for the experiments. 0, 0.1, 1, and 10mM A3+ were added as Al2(SO4)3 · 18H2O to modified M-40 medium. Al3+ drastically affected the mineral contents of the mycelia of both fungi:
the Al, Ca, and Na contents increased while P, Mg, and K decreased with the increasing Al3+ concentrations in the media.
On the other hand, some important differences between the two mycelia were detected. In the mycelia of Lacterius piperatus grown on the control media, there was about twice as much Ca content and a three times lower P content than in the Amanita muscaria mycelia. The Al3+ content in the mycelia of Lactarius piperatus grown on 10mM Al3+ was six times higher than in Amanita muscaria at the same concentration.

How are you going to get dissolved aluminum out of a mineral that is insoluble in water?

Extras:

trees

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9,302

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: chibiabos]
#24876093 - 12/29/17 01:14 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Vermiculite dust is actually bad for the lungs, it behaves similarly to asbestos in the lungs. Lodges itself deep in lung dltissue, never goes away, causes irritation / inflammation, potentially mesothelioma.

--------------------
Trees is dead, this is his mum posting

Extras:

Patlal
You ask too many questions

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,836
Loc: Ottawa

Last seen: 13 hours, 12 minutes

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: trees]
#24876097 - 12/29/17 01:16 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

We're all gonna die guys. The atmosphere is pumped full of toxins on a daily basis. I doubt you can eat enough shrooms in your life to worry about aluminum in vermiculite.

--------------------

Extras:

koods
Ribbit

Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,910
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 9 hours, 30 minutes

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: Patlal]

2
#24876137 - 12/29/17 01:43 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Ugh. People get this all wrong. The aluminum connection to Alzheimer's has to do with a defect that allows aluminum to collect in the brain. Our bodies are bombarded with aluminum constantly. It is totally ubiquitous in our environment. Dirt, many types of rocks, and clay are all aluminum based materials. It is the third most prevalent element on earth. Our bodies normally have no problem processing and excreting aluminum. People consume up to a gram of aluminum everyday. It's not a heavy metal. It is one of the lightest elements.

--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Extras:

Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!

Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,617
Loc: Hampsterdam

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: chibiabos]
#24876150 - 12/29/17 01:53 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Does that mean I can stop taking my aluminium supplements?

--------------------

Extras:

koods
Ribbit

Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,910
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 9 hours, 30 minutes

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: chibiabos]
#24876155 - 12/29/17 01:55 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

chibiabos said:
Quote:

crissel said:
Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
Quote:

crissel said:

Because I am not a chemist / biochemist, just an ordinary engineer. I was hoping someone here working professionally in this area could comment on this.

Basically what I'm getting at. nobody in this thread can offer validity to such a claim.

i still have some access to scientific studies.
And it seems that metabolism of the mushroom is somehow affected by aluminum.
The fruit apparently accumulates the aluminum.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00480549
Quote:

The influence of Al3+ on the mineral content of mycorrhizal fungi was studied in vitro. Amanita muscaria (L. ex Fr.) Pers. ex Hooker whose growth is reduced and Lactarius piperatus (L. ex Fr.) S.F. Gray whose growth is stimulated by Al3+ where chosen for the experiments. 0, 0.1, 1, and 10mM A3+ were added as Al2(SO4)3 · 18H2O to modified M-40 medium. Al3+ drastically affected the mineral contents of the mycelia of both fungi:
the Al, Ca, and Na contents increased while P, Mg, and K decreased with the increasing Al3+ concentrations in the media.
On the other hand, some important differences between the two mycelia were detected. In the mycelia of Lacterius piperatus grown on the control media, there was about twice as much Ca content and a three times lower P content than in the Amanita muscaria mycelia. The Al3+ content in the mycelia of Lactarius piperatus grown on 10mM Al3+ was six times higher than in Amanita muscaria at the same concentration.

How are you going to get dissolved aluminum out of a mineral that is insoluble in water?

A lot of water insoluble substances become soluble in acidic conditions.

--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Extras:

chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum

Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: koods]
#24876174 - 12/29/17 02:06 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Vermiculite is not going to dissolve because your growth medium is acidic...

Extras:

koods
Ribbit

Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,910
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 9 hours, 30 minutes

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: chibiabos]

1
#24876186 - 12/29/17 02:13 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

It won't dissolve completely but aluminum ions will leech into water. Not much and it isn't going to be significant. People with healthy kidneys can consume upto 5g of aluminum a day without ill effects.

Apparently tea is one of the main sources of aluminum in a diet. Who knew?

Again, the fact that vermiculite is an aluminum compound shouldn't concern anyone. we grow all our food in soil, which is upto 10% aluminum by weight.

--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (12/29/17 02:22 PM)

Extras:

bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent

Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: koods]
#24876206 - 12/29/17 02:27 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Don't go out to eat. lots of kitchens use aluminum stock pots and even frying pans. Most baking sheets are aluminum too.

--------------------
:whyyy:

:whyyy:

Extras:

koods
Ribbit

Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,910
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 9 hours, 30 minutes

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: bodhisatta]

1
#24876217 - 12/29/17 02:33 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Who cares? What are you going to eat and store you food in? Your plates and coffee mugs are also made of aluminum. Humans have been using clay pottery to store food since the beginning of time.

We evolved on a planet where aluminum is everywhere and unavoidable, and therefore we have evolved the ability to excrete aluminum from our bodies.

--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Extras:

trendal
J♠

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: crissel]

1
#24876224 - 12/29/17 02:39 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Aluminum doesn't cause Alzheimer's disease....

It also isn't a neuro-toxin...it only has effects at high doses and then it only affects the functioning of the blood-brain barrier.

Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium

--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras:

chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum

Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month

Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?

[Re: koods]
#24876283 - 12/29/17 03:12 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
It won't dissolve completely but aluminum ions will leech into water.

Not in any way that you'd notice when testing the water chemistry.

Extras:

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