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Invisiblecrissel

Registered: 03/27/16
Posts: 111
Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ?
    #24874561 - 12/28/17 09:25 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Hi guys,
I stumbled across a post from RR  and it made my think if vermiculite might actually be harmful as a substrate. Since Mushroom prefer an acidic substrate according to RR and vermiculite contains aluminum could it be possible that the mycelium accumulates the aluminum? Aluminum leachings was found to be highest in acidic environments. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that might cause alzheimers and other neurodegenerative diseases.
By eating the shrooms could we poison ourselves?

Quote:


Most mushrooms prefer an acidic substrate.  The problem is, so do molds.  We lime our casing layers(when used) to make them less hospitable to mold spore germination, while trying to find the upper limit of pH that mushroom mycelium will still thrive.

I wouldn't attempt to lower pH with sulfur or anything like that.  Simply use the manure, straw, coir, etc., as it is.
RR




vermiculite = Magnesium Aluminum Iron Silicate


Edited by crissel (12/28/17 09:50 PM)


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OfflinemushboyM
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: crissel]
    #24874573 - 12/28/17 09:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I only spawn too coco.  Another good reason.  No Alzheimers


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: mushboy]
    #24874583 - 12/28/17 09:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

There are replacements for verm in pf tek and as a casing.


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Invisiblecrissel

Registered: 03/27/16
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: JHOVA]
    #24874592 - 12/28/17 09:41 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

what are the replacements for verm in PF Tek?


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OfflineRockyB
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: JHOVA]
    #24874594 - 12/28/17 09:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

What would those alternatives be in the cake?


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OfflineRockyB
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: crissel]
    #24874595 - 12/28/17 09:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

crissel said:
what are the replacements for verm in PF Tek?




You beat me by 5 seconds


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: RockyB]
    #24874622 - 12/28/17 09:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Cornmeal.

at 4:1 cornmeal:water ratio.



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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: crissel] * 1
    #24874629 - 12/28/17 09:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Aluminum doesn't cause Alzheimer's. There's no link by any credible science. The Alzheimer's organisation is not in the bed with the aluminum industry either.


--------------------
:whyyy:


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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: crissel] * 1
    #24874651 - 12/28/17 10:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You're spreading needless worry and disinformation.  The only precaution you should take working with verm is to wear a mask when handling indoors.


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Invisiblecrissel

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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24874654 - 12/28/17 10:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

@JHOVA
what is that green stuff?
Or did you use food coloring for some reason?


Aluminum MIGHT cause Alzheimers. There are a lot of studies that show a potential risk:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/737258
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23380995
and a lot more...


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: crissel]
    #24874657 - 12/28/17 10:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Food coloring

Look up "tortilla tek"and cornmeal plates is in my signature.


Edited by JHOVA (12/28/17 10:18 PM)


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Invisiblecrissel

Registered: 03/27/16
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #24874673 - 12/28/17 10:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
You're spreading needless worry and disinformation.  The only precaution you should take working with verm is to wear a mask when handling indoors.




Disinformation = false information spread deliberately to deceive.
I try to raise awareness of a potential health risk.
If it really is disinformation than it should be easy to prove wrong.

As far as I know todays vermiculite does not contain any asbestos anymore since the Libby Tragedy in Montana.


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InvisibleZiran
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: JHOVA]
    #24874677 - 12/28/17 10:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
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The Chinese word for nature is zìrán and it means that of which is of itself.



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Offlineyoosername
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: crissel]
    #24874681 - 12/28/17 10:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

It's hard to pin down what "causes" the superficial symptoms of what we call "disease" but heavy metals definitely contribute in ways that compound with other exposures.  It is much like a "damage over time" spell, if your immune system is pimp'n and you're living a healthy life, your detox system is probably functioning adequately enough to prevent toxic buildup.  But for most, it doesn't take much to throw the system out of balance, and if you don't correct it quickly it can snowball and progress into all manner of ugly things. 

I don't use aluminum for consumables, and I don't really use verm either.


--------------------
O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.


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OfflineCybin_man
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: crissel]
    #24874684 - 12/28/17 10:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Soda and beer cans are made from aluminum, I probably already have Alzheimer’s if that’s the case. :uhoh:


--------------------
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: Cybin_man]
    #24874780 - 12/28/17 11:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I thought you could grow mushrooms in anything and the fruit would always be clean.
Also, does the mycelium actually feed and consume the verm? I thought it was just there for moisture retention.


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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: crissel]
    #24874814 - 12/28/17 11:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

crissel said:
Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
You're spreading needless worry and disinformation.  The only precaution you should take working with verm is to wear a mask when handling indoors.




Disinformation = false information spread deliberately to deceive.
I try to raise awareness of a potential health risk.
If it really is disinformation than it should be easy to prove wrong.






Excuse my semantics.  Your heart is in the right place, no debate there.  However, raising awareness of a naturally occurring mineral having the potential to cause health problems (in regards to the minimal AL content) in a cultivation setting is not your place...unless you happen to have expedited a controlled study over the course of many years linking the AL content of verm and the addressed health risks.  Can you say with absolute certainty that anything in a mushroom substrate is absorbed into the actual fruit bodies?


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OfflineThreads from God89
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: seanmmcafee]
    #24874821 - 12/28/17 11:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Mushrooms do absorb things from the surrounding ground and can hold trace heavy metals or other toxins if those toxins are found in the growing medium...... That's why you don't pick mushrooms from near a roadway as good practice because you never know what they've absorbed! (Oil hydrocarbons, anti-freeze, heavy metals, ect.)

    I dont use vermiculite in my grows although I have..... It's messy and the texture just seems strange to me, metallic and weird.


--------------------
Admirer of Bushido....... Seeker of Truth, and Knowledge.

    I Will Keep the Fire going,  and the Good Wolf fed.......

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OfflineThreads from God89
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #24874833 - 12/28/17 11:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
Quote:

crissel said:
Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
You're spreading needless worry and disinformation.  The only precaution you should take working with verm is to wear a mask when handling indoors.




Disinformation = false information spread deliberately to deceive.
I try to raise awareness of a potential health risk.
If it really is disinformation than it should be easy to prove wrong.






Excuse my semantics.  Your heart is in the right place, no debate there.  However, raising awareness of a naturally occurring mineral having the potential to cause health problems (in regards to the minimal AL content) in a cultivation setting is not your place...unless you happen to have expedited a controlled study over the course of many years linking the AL content of verm and the addressed health risks.  Can you say with absolute certainty that anything in a mushroom substrate is absorbed into the actual fruit bodies?




Raising that type of question is not his place?  I think that's a damn good question that we SHOULD be asking ourselves and I m glad that there are people pondering these things..... You NEED to be aware of what you put into your body and how it could affect it.


--------------------
Admirer of Bushido....... Seeker of Truth, and Knowledge.

    I Will Keep the Fire going,  and the Good Wolf fed.......

                    ( We Are All Threads from God.)

                 
                             


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Invisiblecrissel

Registered: 03/27/16
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Re: Vermiculite and Heavy Metals causing Alzheimers ? [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #24874904 - 12/28/17 11:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

@seanmmcafee
just read about biosorption. Mushrooms are well known for concentrating heavy metals.


Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
Quote:

crissel said:
Quote:

WeavieWonder said:
You're spreading needless worry and disinformation.  The only precaution you should take working with verm is to wear a mask when handling indoors.




Disinformation = false information spread deliberately to deceive.
I try to raise awareness of a potential health risk.
If it really is disinformation than it should be easy to prove wrong.






Excuse my semantics.  Your heart is in the right place, no debate there.  However, raising awareness of a naturally occurring mineral having the potential to cause health problems (in regards to the minimal AL content) in a cultivation setting is not your place...unless you happen to have expedited a controlled study over the course of many years linking the AL content of verm and the addressed health risks.  Can you say with absolute certainty that anything in a mushroom substrate is absorbed into the actual fruit bodies?




That was my question. Because I am not a chemist / biochemist, just an ordinary engineer. I was hoping someone here working professionally in this area could comment on this.
As I said before I cannot say it with certainty but research shows that biosorption of metals in a mushroom is not something I just made up to spread disinformation.


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