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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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debate about open air fruiting being vector
    #24872914 - 12/28/17 08:24 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

more open air fruiting adventures..


Open-air spawning and monotubs are vectors for contamination by violet

and im the one whos intellectually dishonest?
Quote:


Intentionally committed fallacies in debates and reasoning are called intellectual dishonesty.



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/viewratings.php?type=1&usernum=143084

anybody got anything to add to this debate?

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 3
    #24872924 - 12/28/17 08:28 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

The journal post is about uncolonized substrate, not colonized substrate fruiting.  All fruiting other than invitro is 'open-air' in those regards, as exposure to contaminant spores no longer matters after colonization.

Are you a yoga teacher because wow what a stretch


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy]
    #24872926 - 12/28/17 08:28 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

for the record..

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Violet said:
Do you understand the word vector?
It literally means a means by which contaminant spores are able to reach uncolonized substrate.
So yeah.

Wow, you really took that to heart huh? Good.  But to the point of this? Sad.

What was even the relevance here? Trying to force open-air fruiting and open-air spawning to mean the same thing is a pretty damn good example of the intellectual dishonesty I was talking about, so you keep on making my case.

For the record, TMH was correct, this is exactly what I mean by that journal post which you clearly and hilariously dug through after our conflict that you clearly and hilariously are now going to push into a bunch of random threads like this one lol
Quote:

TheMadHatter420 said:
Your NOT going to get a "Sterile" grow. The only way to come close is an in-vitro grow without ever opening container. The fact that you inoculated those open air, well there IS SOME LEVEL of contamination in there, so those prints will be coming from a contaminated grow. Your going to be starting with a contaminated print because it will be grown on a contaminated grow because YOU CONTAMINATED IT by open air inoculation. Just because you have not seen signs of contaminations does not mean it isn't in there. When inoculating open air, you at least got bacteria spores, if not mold spores, in there from the air. :







what!?

open air FRUITING, not inoculation. your title is about open air and monotubs being vectors which is misleading, false and a flat out lie in my opinion.

wow. and yes. i am going to dig through every thing you have ever posted and disprove your nonsense. i look forward to the debate.

not that ill be the first.




:popcorn:

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Violet]
    #24872929 - 12/28/17 08:30 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
The journal post is about uncolonized substrate, not colonized substrate fruiting.  All fruiting other than invitro is 'open-air' in those regards, as exposure to contaminant spores no longer matters after colonization.




nope. the title is.

Open-air spawning and monotubs are vectors for contamination

explain your stance. i am not name calling. this is not flaming. no assumptions. just debate over whats presented.

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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #24872934 - 12/28/17 08:32 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I'm pretty sure violet means open air spawn run. Not inoculation or fruiting... :popcorn:


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #24872937 - 12/28/17 08:33 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

so do i. its the same shit. thats spitting hairs anyway. whos monos are AIR TIGHT during colonization. the exposure to air the present. with all the microbes of the world.

ill post a video of an open air spawn run or whatever if i must. i fruit at spawning, open air. mister in hand.

its not a mold vector. thats childish kids stuff.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24872939 - 12/28/17 08:33 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I already did.  Open-air inoculation is a vector for contamination.  Vector meaning a way that mold spores can get to uncolonized substrate. That's it, that's all.

Your mistake is in the title of this thread. Your lame tryhard attempt at a petty call-out thread is under the incredibly mistaken impression that it has anything to do with OPEN AIR FRUITING which it absolutely does not, obviously.

If you read the thread without a strooooong desire... an intellectually dishonest one... to find a way to slander me it'd be pretty evident to you that I'm referring to the ability for mold spores to reach uncolonized substrate. Which hopefully/ideally/usually for people isn't especially relevant. Which is why I have a small seldom-used journal post as an aside for it.  A post that your immense butthurt is inspiring you to dig up and horrendously misrepresent lol


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Violet]
    #24872942 - 12/28/17 08:34 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

no ones talking about inoculation. stop derailing. and no shit. who open air inoculates??

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 3
    #24872945 - 12/28/17 08:36 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

:heart: Unity as one stand together :heart:


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: eatyualive] * 1
    #24872947 - 12/28/17 08:37 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

thats nonsense eat. this is a thread about debate. stay on topic or go somewhere else.

again. thats not flaming or trolling anyone so please. stay on topic.

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 3
    #24872951 - 12/28/17 08:38 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

:heart: Unity evolution gonna come :heart:


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24872952 - 12/28/17 08:38 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
no ones talking about inoculation. stop derailing. and no shit. who open air inoculates??




Yeah, THE DAMN JOURNAL POST YOU LINKED TO MAKE THIS THREAD ABOUT IS TALKING ABOUT INOCULATION, lololololololol, it's not derailing just because you want so badly to pretend this is about something other than what it is, everyone here can see that but you somehow

...Who open-air spawns? Really? REALLY?
Everyone who doesn't spawn their tubs in sterile airflow or still-air transfer conditions is open-air inoculating their tubs.  I mean, fucking duh, come on man, really.

It's not a big deal. The journal post isn't a big deal, just stating the obvious really.


This is hilarious, SO glad this happened


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Violet]
    #24872954 - 12/28/17 08:39 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
I'm referring to the ability for mold spores to reach uncolonized substrate. Which hopefully/ideally/usually for people isn't especially relevant.




ok. you stated one fact so far. that we all know. dont spawn uncolonized substrate grains/spawn or it will contam. keep it coming.

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24872957 - 12/28/17 08:40 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Wait... you think spawning uncolonized substrate WILL contam?  So you're saying monotubs are guaranteed to contam since they're spawned in unsterile conditions?  Man even I don't go that far lol


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Violet] * 2
    #24872959 - 12/28/17 08:40 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

:shotsfired:

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Izanagi]
    #24872961 - 12/28/17 08:43 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

substrate was a poor choice of words. most people, newbs, often refer to pf as 'substrate'

i should of use the term spawn, or grains. which is mentioned in your link v

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24872962 - 12/28/17 08:44 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

"Substrate was a poor choice of words"
... it's all substrate, guy.

Okay so you cooked us up a big fat nothingburger lol.

SO glad this happened.


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Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Violet]
    #24872967 - 12/28/17 08:45 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

nice trump quote. and dont split hairs about a word, only to try to correct the way i clarify.

again. can you add FACTS to this debate? or just name call?

do you open air fruit?
have you open air fruited?
have you open air spawn runned or whatever you wanna call it?

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24872978 - 12/28/17 08:52 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

The irony of YOU asking ME to "add facts" to this "debate" is just solid gold.  Nobody has ever made it this easy for me before.  You're really doing all the work of ridiculing yourself all by yourself.  From the context of this thread and the crap you brought it over here from, it doesn't even look like you have basic cultivation concepts ironed out.

I have no obligation to post here anymore.  The whole thing is a joke and there's literally no way for this thread to go uphill without going off-topic, because by the very nature of the topic of this post it is a shitpile.  Goodbye


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 3
    #24872979 - 12/28/17 08:52 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
whos monos are AIR TIGHT during colonization. the exposure to air the present. with all the microbes of the world.





Ummm i kind of think that's exactly what violet was saying.

We all know when we spawn colonised grain/cakes/whatever to tubs, we are introducing spores - we rely on the spawn ratio and fast colonisation of the bulk to beat out any potential issues.

No bias here (if anything i saw more abrasive posts from Violet than yourself), but seems you went a bit silly with this one :crazy2:


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy]
    #24872983 - 12/28/17 08:53 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Piaseski]
    #24872984 - 12/28/17 08:53 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Piaseski said:
we rely on the spawn ratio and fast colonisation of the bulk to beat out any potential issues.





thats the misconception that violets post/journal causes. thats just not true. this is my argument.

Quote:

We all know when we spawn colonised grain/cakes/whatever to tubs, we are introducing spores




that part is true. but that does not cause the contams. bad spawn does. not exposure to air after the food source is colonized.

bulk is not a food source in that regard. thats why open air SPAWN RUNNING or fruiting works.

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy]
    #24872987 - 12/28/17 08:56 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Okay I WILL post again to say.... Piaseski gets it ^^^^^^

Also, I would like to apologize for being 'abrasive', it's just damn-well earned from this OP in particular.
I really did try to just approach it plainly as a myco topic at first, I really did.  That's not what this guy wanted, tho. He wanted drivel and slander.  It's not exactly my way to butter those people up.



Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Piaseski said:
we rely on the spawn ratio and fast colonisation of the bulk to beat out any potential issues.



thats the misconception that violets post/journal causes. thats just not true. this is my argument.




Hold on hold on hold on hold on.... YOU THINK THAT'S NOT TRUE?

Omg it got better
It got better


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Violet] * 1
    #24872994 - 12/28/17 09:00 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

When you're too new to understand the argument but you know it's good... :stoned:


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Violet]
    #24872995 - 12/28/17 09:00 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

i got some 1:10 ratio open air stuff in the works. so my low ratio to bulk will all contam by that logic?

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24872996 - 12/28/17 09:01 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Piaseski said:
we rely on the spawn ratio and fast colonisation of the bulk to beat out any potential issues.





thats the misconception that violets post/journal causes. thats just not true. this is my argument.




I'm not sure i understand you.

As i see it:

1. You spawn in the open air
2. Bacteria/Mold spores possibly (let's say certainly really, given the ubiquity of them) land on the (at this point) uncolonise bulk material, and your colonised grain thats mixed in.
3. In the ideal scenario, the mycellium has a head start due to the ratio and fully colonises before any nasty spores can germinate. (Especially with the sub being geared towards what shrooms want, and against what nasties want).

I take 'Vector' to mean a way in which contaminates are POTENTIALLY introduced, and there can be no argument that spawning open air is even remotely sterile.

Even open air fruiting a fully colonised sub, introduces contaminate spores - they just have a hard time getting hold until later flushes when the myc is weak.

Unless i've been very confused about how this works for a long time, i think we're just arguing over interpretations of terms here.


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 3
    #24873000 - 12/28/17 09:02 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Do you even believe what you are saying mushboy?


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Piaseski]
    #24873001 - 12/28/17 09:03 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

1. correct
2. yes. it does not matter
3. that 'ideal scenario' is fiction. we are growing indoors. ideal would be outdoor hands off from the mushrooms point of view.

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24873004 - 12/28/17 09:03 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
i got some 1:10 ratio open air stuff in the works. so my low ratio to bulk will all contam by that logic?




As my understanding goes, it is certainly more likely too.

I think this is all about the meaning of the term Vector...i dont take it to mean guarenteed contam, you seem to.


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Piaseski] * 2
    #24873006 - 12/28/17 09:04 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I respect you both, but I can't help but feel like you are just fighting over misread context. Let's just all lay out what we mean when we say substrate. I think this all depends on if you are using bull sub that needs proper pasteurization


--------------------
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Piaseski]
    #24873008 - 12/28/17 09:05 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

your understanding is off. thats my point dude.

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Piaseski] * 2
    #24873010 - 12/28/17 09:06 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Piaseski said: i think we're just arguing over interpretations of terms here.



:whathesaid:


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: JHOVA]
    #24873011 - 12/28/17 09:06 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

JHOVA said:
Do you even believe what you are saying mushboy?




what do you think i am saying? maybe some confusion has taken place.

i believe you can, because i have, open air you monos from the second they are spawned.

whats so insane about that?

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Piaseski] * 2
    #24873012 - 12/28/17 09:06 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I reiterate, Piaseski gets it ^^^^^^  VECTOR

No, mushboy, I'm not saying it WILL contam.  Unless using a sub that is especially likely to contam on its own regardless, the idea is that mycelium will colonize it first.

That has ALWAYS been the idea.

Welcome to Mushroom Cultivation.


--------------------
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Violet]
    #24873024 - 12/28/17 09:11 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

no. this has gotten side tracked. my point, this thread is about open air fruiting.

and the debate that the 'vector' is irrelevant.

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy]
    #24873028 - 12/28/17 09:15 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

colonization conditions are not aseptic. The lids are not perfect etc... The difference between open air and not open air contamination exposure is like 100 million contaminants vs 1 billion. Either way your still exposing colonizing substrate to plenty of airborne contamination.

Open air fruiting is no more a vector than open air spawning. Neither of which are vectors lol.

You basically can't fuck bulk up with clean spawn and properly prepared substrate.

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OfflinePiaseski
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24873031 - 12/28/17 09:16 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

No no no no

That's the whole debate, Violet said open air fruiting/spawning/whatfuckingever is a vector for contamination.

It IS, it just issssss.

It doesn't mean it WILL contam.

We all work this way, and it works, nobody is disagreeing there.


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy]
    #24873034 - 12/28/17 09:17 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Okay, mushbwains, if this thread is about open-air fruiting, why bring up ANYTHING I've said about open-air spawning into it at all?

Killin' me, smalls


Bring up something I've said about open-air fruiting, if you can find something.  Here's one, I once spoke about moving from 'pinning' to 'cropping' conditions in the Pods tek by removing lids of containers fruiting together when the pins are large enough to emit humidity protecting the cake below from drying out.  So I'm an advocate for open-air fruiting where workable.


No way am I hitting my 4000th post in this stupid thread.  This thread is bad, and you should FEEEEEEEL bad.


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Violet]
    #24873036 - 12/28/17 09:19 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)


Quote:

Violet said:
No way am I hitting my 4000th post in this stupid thread.  This thread is bad, and you should FEEEEEEEL bad.




:facepalm: answer questions and have a debate or leave.
No ones interested in your what you think of mushboy's thread.

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InvisibleAtlantis Reaction
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector *DELETED* [Re: mushboy]
    #24873037 - 12/28/17 09:19 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Post deleted by bodhisatta

Reason for deletion: Off topic

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OfflinePiaseski
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Atlantis Reaction]
    #24873041 - 12/28/17 09:21 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I feel if Violet's original thread title said POTENTIAL Vectors instead, we wouldn't be wasting our time here.


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #24873052 - 12/28/17 09:26 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

King Posture here now, to once again pretend my on-topic posts are off-topic.  And how transparent you are about it this time!, ignoring all my posts in favor of reacting to one single line at the end.

How silly to accuse me of not having "answered questions" or participated in this "debate".  The whole thing was a pathetic ruse to bait and discredit me that backfired.
If you were a decent mod you wouldn't be one-upping his ridiculous shit, you'd be locking it; and instead of locking a good tek thread, you would have booted the troll from it first.  But anyone who knows anything about this dynamic we have here knows exactly why you wouldn't do something decent... sensible... like that.


Quote:

Atlantis Reaction said:
Quote:


anybody got anything to add to this debate?



This is the same violet that fought everyone for years over sterilizing subs in a microwave? If so, the only advice I have is dont argue with a lunatic?




And here we have someone else who thinks liquid media can't be sterilized by boiling, woohoo, what a party.


Maybe I'll come back to this shitshow after I've found a decent place for my next numbered post.


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Piaseski]
    #24873055 - 12/28/17 09:27 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Piaseski said:
That's the whole debate, Violet said open air fruiting/spawning/whatfuckingever is a vector for contamination.

It IS, it just issssss.

It doesn't mean it WILL contam.





No.  Its not a vector.

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector *DELETED* [Re: Violet] * 1
    #24873056 - 12/28/17 09:27 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Post deleted by bodhisatta

Reason for deletion: Off topic


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OfflinePiaseski
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy]
    #24873063 - 12/28/17 09:29 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Piaseski said:
That's the whole debate, Violet said open air fruiting/spawning/whatfuckingever is a vector for contamination.

It IS, it just issssss.

It doesn't mean it WILL contam.





No.  Its not a vector.




Potential Vector then.


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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Piaseski] * 1
    #24873068 - 12/28/17 09:30 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

If your spawn is dirty,  correct.

Otherwise its like saying fucking a clean person is an aids vector.

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector *DELETED* [Re: Germs] * 1
    #24873070 - 12/28/17 09:30 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Post deleted by bodhisatta

Reason for deletion: Off topic flaming

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InvisibleAtlantis Reaction
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Mycolorado]
    #24873079 - 12/28/17 09:33 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
And who the fuck is this atlas reactor clown chiming in?




Your Better... In reading comprehension and everything else,  Jr.

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Violet]
    #24873081 - 12/28/17 09:33 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

No violet, parts were were on topic. The crap you added at the end. Thats the off topic crap we don't need that makes threads get locked. :cookiemonster:

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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: Piaseski]
    #24873083 - 12/28/17 09:34 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

No, by our use of the term vector, it IS a vector, period. You had it right the first time Piaseski.

You are absolutely getting mold spores in your spawned tubs.  The hope is that it doesn't matter, with good pasteurized or resistant sub being colonized quickly by good mycelium without any already-germinated contaminants being introduced alongside them.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Re: debate about open air fruiting being vector [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24873087 - 12/28/17 09:34 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
Well once I have to delete every other post and hand out warnings and  a ban it's time to say y'all can't play well together.

closed.

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