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InvisibleAyePlus
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Registered: 12/18/14
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: linkinparkrulz]
    #24874653 - 12/28/17 08:15 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

linkinparkrulz said:
Quote:

AyePlus said:
No fanning needed ever, dont make holes just flip or crack the lid. Seperate shelves aren’t needed but help with organization Misting is only done when needed, usually after the first flush, unless you are open air fruiting but thats a conversation for a different thread. Dunk after first flush and put back into fruiting conditions immediately..




I've never done a shoebox before. Seems straight forward, but my only question is how is O2 replenished and CO2 expelled if no FAE is introduced?



Imperfect seal is enough during colonization and FAE is introduced by flipping the lid once ready. Since its such a dmall substrate to much fae will dry it out, you can even fruit with the lid on if you want, they are designed not to seal perfectly so things inside them can dry out and not mold when used for storage, you’ll get better pinsets if you flip it though.

For more info:
unmodified mono tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22337800/fpart/1/vc/1
shoe box tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24038695


--------------------
Learn about breeding

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Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
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Offlinelinkinparkrulz
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: AyePlus]
    #24874707 - 12/28/17 08:46 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Thanks the great explanation Ayeplus. This is really intriguing!

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OfflineHopeless_Hound
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: linkinparkrulz]
    #24874790 - 12/28/17 09:21 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Shoeboxes get air through the lid although I'd say it's not enough. Really in a dialed in environment optimal air exchange is hard to get. Some people dub tub but I don't see the point, do about 1/2 on and 1/2 off for the lids of shoeboxes, tha should be plenty of air. Or you could open air fruit it, I work a 9 to 5 and it's never an issue for me, more work but it's worth it in my opinion.


--------------------
MS Brazillian shoebox


AA+ MS shoebox

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OfflineSalRapasadi
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Registered: 11/19/17
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: Hopeless_Hound]
    #24877084 - 12/29/17 08:21 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Thanks for all the back-and-forth on this guys! -- Here's an update for everyone:

So I spawned about 7 quart jars to shoebox tubs. I'm pretty optimistic because frankly what I encountered in my colonized jars was super CLEAN and all-white, and not one apple jar or even anything other than total clean mushroom smell. They look pretty hopeful! - Confirmed by my friend as well who I had assist in contam check so as to know I wasn't smoking my own crack on this one.

SO yeah, they look promising and I'm going to spawn the remainder tomorrow.

I apologize but I'm still slightly confused here, so I have  few more questions for ya'll (and I did read the TEK's you sent over MUCHAS GRACIAS) but I'm still looking to clarify:

1) So I don't snap the lids shut on the shoe boxes, just simply sort of lay them on top? Or do I  click them together to their bottoms and simply bank on that small space at the handle for a small amount of FAE? Right now I just gently left them on top without clicking them fastened.

2) Per my picture attached below, would it make sense to try and cluster all my totes together as close as I can in order to accommodate proximity to an industrial light clamp with a 6500k bulb? I have one of these clamps...I can buy another one if needed but wasn't sure if that would be enough? Maybe just clip it to the first shelf seen where my jars are and put everything on the ground beneath?

3) I'm kind of lost here still on fruiting. So bear with me folks! -- I'm picking up: Let colonize with lid on, then just fruit by simply removing the lids?  No fanning, no misting? Is it still prudent to check for moisture if misting is needed at any point? I'm just trying to make sure that I'm not missing anything if it isn't as simple as colonize with lid, remove lid for fruiting, 12 light, 12 no light.



--------------------







"All the years combine, they melt into a dream"

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OfflinePlater 1
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24877117 - 12/29/17 08:41 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

I'm having the same problem as you: Rye berry jars stalled for weeks and taking forever for the last tiny bit of grain to colonize (2-10%). I think this is because rye berries just harbor contaminants better and are harder to work with despite proper sterilization techniques(15-17psi at 90-120 min). I recently switched to whole oats and am having greater success with a muuuch lower contamination rate despite not flame sterilizing my spore syringe needle in between jars, only before the first jar. I think the outer cellulose husk and smaller grain size and seemingly lower density of oats contributes to the success. Plus, they hold moisture better and are more forgiving in terms of optimal moisture. Whole oat jars I started when my rye berry jars were 95+% will fully colonize before the rye berry jars. Never doing rye berries again, and will forever switch to whole oats. Plus they're almost 4X cheaper for the best prices I can get for each ($100 for 100 lbs from ebay for rye berries vs $13 for a 50lb bag of Producer's Pride whole oats from a local Tractor Supply store.)

Still going to try and spawn and fruit my rye berry jars though, since I hate waste, and why not? Going to do a dunk with a small % of bleach  beforehand though.

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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: Plater 1]
    #24877721 - 12/29/17 10:38 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

1. Put the lid on like normal, until you want to introduce FAE, the main pinning trigger. Then you flip them if you want to
:doublejointed:

2. For now you can stack them up and wait for colonization, light isnt necessary at this point  although it doesnt hurt, some people light tubs with opaque lids from the side, and you’re probably gonna want 1 for every 4-6 shoeboxes.

3. Its up to you whether you want to fruit with lids on, cracked slightly, flipped or removed alltogether, all three are equally valid, if you do nothing but leave the lids on and wait they will still fruit. Flipping or removing the lid increases FAE and evaporation, which will cause pinning sooner and if done propery will create a more even pinset but will require more attention to surface conditions and can result in sidepinning if surface conditions are poor. If the fruits are large or you used more than 1 qt of spawn, or a high sub/spawn ratio you may need to use a second tub placed upside down over the first, this is called a dubtub.


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
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Offlinelinkinparkrulz
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: Plater 1]
    #24878934 - 12/30/17 02:35 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Plater 1 said:
I'm having the same problem as you: Rye berry jars stalled for weeks and taking forever for the last tiny bit of grain to colonize (2-10%). I think this is because rye berries just harbor contaminants better and are harder to work with despite proper sterilization techniques(15-17psi at 90-120 min). I recently switched to whole oats and am having greater success with a muuuch lower contamination rate despite not flame sterilizing my spore syringe needle in between jars, only before the first jar. I think the outer cellulose husk and smaller grain size and seemingly lower density of oats contributes to the success. Plus, they hold moisture better and are more forgiving in terms of optimal moisture. Whole oat jars I started when my rye berry jars were 95+% will fully colonize before the rye berry jars. Never doing rye berries again, and will forever switch to whole oats. Plus they're almost 4X cheaper for the best prices I can get for each ($100 for 100 lbs from ebay for rye berries vs $13 for a 50lb bag of Producer's Pride whole oats from a local Tractor Supply store.)

Still going to try and spawn and fruit my rye berry jars though, since I hate waste, and why not? Going to do a dunk with a small % of bleach  beforehand though.




Wow, really cool. You make good points about the rye berries, I think I will try whole oats as well. Just gotta finish off my rye berries. Time do to some research...

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OfflineCallmedaddy
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: linkinparkrulz]
    #24879097 - 12/30/17 04:13 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

linkinparkrulz said:
Quote:

Plater 1 said:
I'm having the same problem as you: Rye berry jars stalled for weeks and taking forever for the last tiny bit of grain to colonize (2-10%). I think this is because rye berries just harbor contaminants better and are harder to work with despite proper sterilization techniques(15-17psi at 90-120 min). I recently switched to whole oats and am having greater success with a muuuch lower contamination rate despite not flame sterilizing my spore syringe needle in between jars, only before the first jar. I think the outer cellulose husk and smaller grain size and seemingly lower density of oats contributes to the success. Plus, they hold moisture better and are more forgiving in terms of optimal moisture. Whole oat jars I started when my rye berry jars were 95+% will fully colonize before the rye berry jars. Never doing rye berries again, and will forever switch to whole oats. Plus they're almost 4X cheaper for the best prices I can get for each ($100 for 100 lbs from ebay for rye berries vs $13 for a 50lb bag of Producer's Pride whole oats from a local Tractor Supply store.)

Still going to try and spawn and fruit my rye berry jars though, since I hate waste, and why not? Going to do a dunk with a small % of bleach  beforehand though.




Wow, really cool. You make good points about the rye berries, I think I will try whole oats as well. Just gotta finish off my rye berries. Time do to some research...



If your oats went from 0-100 faster than your rb could go from 95-100, then the reason is because you had a contam, or lack of proper GE.

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OfflineSalRapasadi
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: Callmedaddy]
    #24882853 - 01/01/18 10:15 AM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Thanks everyone, very helpful!

Again, pardon my newbness here but how can you fruit with the lids on in terms of height restrictions? Couldn't there be potential for any of the caps to stall out height-wise and hit the lid? Or is that presuming too large of height growth? As you stated below, it might just make sense to keep an eye on the fruits and if need be add a dub-tub or just remove the lid? What might an ideal scenario be here.. in terms of striking a good balance for efficacy, overall yield, and de-risking the need to maintain surface conditions? I suppose I could try to go sans lids, but I'm not exactly sure what ideal surface conditions may look like... wouldn't want to screw it up at an important time, but I can also monitor as best given the circumstance if a better outcome was possible.

I used 1 qt of spawn per each box and utillized around 1-1.5qts of substrate in each.


"3. Its up to you whether you want to fruit with lids on, cracked slightly, flipped or removed alltogether, all three are equally valid, if you do nothing but leave the lids on and wait they will still fruit. Flipping or removing the lid increases FAE and evaporation, which will cause pinning sooner and if done propery will create a more even pinset but will require more attention to surface conditions and can result in sidepinning if surface conditions are poor. If the fruits are large or you used more than 1 qt of spawn, or a high sub/spawn ratio you may need to use a second tub placed upside down over the first, this is called a dubtub."


--------------------







"All the years combine, they melt into a dream"

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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24883148 - 01/01/18 01:02 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Whatever works for you. You’re overthinking it. Dub it, pay attention to surface conditions, Or leave the lid on, ignore it and see what happens. If it doesnt dry out or contaminate you’ll get some boomers. GL


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
🅂 🄰 🄼 🄴  🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼  🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿

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OfflineSalRapasadi
Cactus

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 88
Loc: Best Coast
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: AyePlus]
    #24884951 - 01/02/18 12:31 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Got it. - Much thanks again for the help! I'll keep ya'll posted if anyone should care to linger on this.


--------------------







"All the years combine, they melt into a dream"

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