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OfflineSalRapasadi
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Registered: 11/19/17
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Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins?
    #24868593 - 12/25/17 10:34 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Hi Everyone,

I have a feeling my jars might be ready for bulk spawn, as I've been holding out for 100% colonization with some slight stalling at the very last bits of my rye jar life cycle. - It seems it's mostly the very tops of the grain in my jars that haven't been completely filled with myc, but pretty dang close. My concern is... I think I see what I believe to be some metabolite spotting, in addition to some potential pinning. If the pinning is indeed what is going on, I'd assume it's ready to spawn ASAP. - I was hoping to get some clarification via the attached pics, if ya'll would be so kind:

1) Is this contam territory? Or just prolonged colonization and time to spawn soon?

2) If, this is not contam territory, is it best practice to simply double check with the sniff test for fresh mushroom scent and attempt to spawn these as soon as possible?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Merry Christmas everyone!













--------------------







"All the years combine, they melt into a dream"

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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24868617 - 12/25/17 11:11 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Those look like they have a pretty nasty bacterial contamination. The myc pressed up against the glass and the wet spots are the clues. Normally I would suggest shake testing for recovery, but I am pretty sure these would fail. Nonetheless if you spawn bulk to coir you might get a flush before it trichs out, but breaking up by shaking will spread the bacteria and weaken the mycelium. Or you could case with coir/verm and top fruit, this is your highest likelyhood of getting some fruits, although it will not yeild as well as if spawned to bulk.


--------------------
Learn about breeding

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Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
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OfflineSalRapasadi
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: AyePlus]
    #24870012 - 12/26/17 06:29 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Shit... ok. - Kind of a bummer given the innumerable variables to retrace here.

I gave them all a shake and we'll see what happens here. - I've got about 3 jars that look to be OK, but it's a toss up.

I'm a bit confused as my inoculation setup was fairly extensive: head-to-toe tyvek suit, wrapped gloves, still air box, dusk mask, all inside a lysol'd closet with everything removed and tarps on the floor and all over the baseboards. - Did the inoculation sanitization to a T.  I guess there's just a ton of variability when it comes to this. A few things I can only think of are the fact that my house is under major construction right now and there's a fair bit of drywall dust floating about, and just general upheaval. - Also could be the spore syringe uncertainty! Does this look like anything to anyone in particular? It seems a lot of the jars have a fair bit of moisture. I'm not sure if that's normal or indiciative of over-hydrated grain? I made sure to do the "pat test" with my grain to see if it was leaving moisture imprint on a piece of paper towel, and it seemed dry. Kind of bummed here.

Is it insane to try and spawn all of these in one bulk substrate and see how they come out? Or just to sort of individually cake them in each jar with a CVG casing?









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"All the years combine, they melt into a dream"

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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24870047 - 12/26/17 06:40 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Spawning to one giant substrate is almost sure to fail. If one jars worth of grain is worse off and it goes sour it will bring the rest of your grow down with it. If you are dead set on spawning to bulk I’d suggest shoeboxes or other small trays that can handle 1-2 qts of spawn each and keep an eagle eye on them and be ready to toss at a moments notice. Its a gamble but could turn out just fine, sometimes the bulk media goves the advantage back to the fungi and it flushes out fine. I’ve seen jars that looked better than that go green before first flush too though. Look up pictures of the early stages of aspergillis and trichoderma and isolate any totes that might be showing sogns and take/post a pic on here for confirmation.

If you did spores straight to grain I’d say yeah it was probably the syringe. Looks like that one it going to need some cleaning up on agar.

Edit: are those second set of pics the same jars after a shake? They are not broken up at all, if theyre a solid lump thats another sign of bacteria, but we knew that already. I recommended to not do that because the mycelium will probably not recover from the stress.


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
πŸ…‚ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό πŸ„΄  πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό
πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό  πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ

Edited by AyePlus (12/26/17 06:47 PM)

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OfflineCallmedaddy
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: AyePlus]
    #24870407 - 12/26/17 09:02 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

My advice: shake those jars up real good right now, then wait exactly one week without checking on them. If they look straight, fruit them

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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: AyePlus]
    #24870443 - 12/26/17 09:15 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

AyePlus said:
Those look like they have a pretty nasty bacterial contamination. The myc pressed up against the glass and the wet spots are the clues. Normally I would suggest shake testing for recovery, but I am pretty sure these would fail. Nonetheless if you spawn bulk to coir you might get a flush before it trichs out, but breaking up by shaking will spread the bacteria and weaken the mycelium. Or you could case with coir/verm and top fruit, this is your highest likelyhood of getting some fruits, although it will not yeild as well as if spawned to bulk.




I'm not sure I agree with that assessment.  I have a ton of rye berry jars and that stuff that's pushed onto the glass is just liquid and the rye berry juice.

This happens when I had a little too much water in there, but it's not contams.  To test, I just left the jars for 2 months in there to see what would happen and gvae them more air flow to dry out.  It wasn't contams.


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I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.

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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: Callmedaddy]
    #24870448 - 12/26/17 09:16 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Callmedaddy said:
My advice: shake those jars up real good right now, then wait exactly one week without checking on them. If they look straight, fruit them




I do agree with that.


--------------------
I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.

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OfflineSalRapasadi
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: AyePlus]
    #24870505 - 12/26/17 09:46 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Thanks so much man, truly helpful.

Pardon my ignorance here, but intuitively I assume t's just good practice to ditch any aspergillis and trichoderma stricken fruits or pre-fruits due to the potential hazardous effects to health, right? A few googs has some nasty results on pulmonary infections and such. - Plus I'm fairly cognoscente of the havoc molds can wreak on the human physiology and mycotoxins as well overall.

When you say "that one" is going to need some cleaning up on agar, what do you mean specifically? I have about 4-5 more syringes left and would hope to start another attempt at all this, but with spores... is it possible and/or feasible to inoculate onto agar first and then spawn to grain and such?

Would a roundabout way to do this in trays be to simply put 1-2 quarts of spawn to a smaller denomination version of coir and vermiculite as seen in a bulk substrate? Basically just splitting up the substrate into smaller increments? I'm a little wigged out about any potential issues with nasty contam vibes near my room, but I suppose if any jars look extra janky I can just toss and try to run with the "hopefuls". - Ah, quite the learning experience. Love being the pupil!!


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"All the years combine, they melt into a dream"

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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24870725 - 12/27/17 12:40 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

You ditch aspergillis and trichoderma infected substrates so they dont spread to your other projects. The spore load in your work space can be enough to make you give up for a while.

When i say that one I mean that spore syringe. Did you make them yourself?

Yes agar can be used to inoculate grains, in fact this is the traditional method, germinate spores on one plate then do 2-3 quick transers to insure cleanliness then let the dish grow out and drop it on grains. Then grain to grain transfers ubtil you have as many jars as you need up to three generations away from the β€œmaster” jjar

Yes that is how I would spawn them, make individual β€œshoeboxes” (~6qt clear totes often sold for shoe storage) 1qt spawn in each and 1.5 qt of coir verm substrate. This way you can isolate and remove any that become contaminated.

Ms syringes are a crapshoot and the water means any bacteria can swim around and grow throughout, bacteria are not as mobile as fungi though so the fungi will spread out past any bacteria as it grows on agar, snatch that leading edge with a scalpel and move it to a fresh dish and you effectively outrun the bacteria.

Dont get to down in the dumps, they might turn out alright ita not a big deal just pay extra attention, I’ve seen some good flushes from bacterial spawn.


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
πŸ…‚ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό πŸ„΄  πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό
πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό  πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ

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OfflineSalRapasadi
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: AyePlus]
    #24870945 - 12/27/17 07:41 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Ok, gotcha. - Again, incredibly helpful my friend!

So yeah this is my first go ever and I ordered a handful of syringes online. - My initial syringe is gone and the rest are all unopened syringes. I utilized the whole syringe for this batch across 12 jars.

Would this be a good way to go about it? -

1) Break up jars with a clean spoon, discarding as much highly questionable mycelium and partially colonized rye I can? Filtering out all the best chance looking stuff?

2) Soak/rinse briefly.

3) Right into your shoebox method...... - But from here, what would the casing/mixing and FAE/Fan situation look like? Just mix and wait until full colonization and throw into fruiting conditions? No need for any types of holes are anything like that in the boxes right? Just 12/12 light?


--------------------







"All the years combine, they melt into a dream"

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OfflineSalRapasadi
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Registered: 11/19/17
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24870979 - 12/27/17 08:10 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

This is a tough call, truly. One jar has a pretty pre-blue looking darker mold forming, and some of the others have a bit of moisture pooling on the bottom. I may just ditch the blue mold jar, and spawn about half to individual trays and 5-6 to a monotub.


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"All the years combine, they melt into a dream"

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OfflineCallmedaddy
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24871017 - 12/27/17 08:42 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

SalRapasadi said:
Ok, gotcha. - Again, incredibly helpful my friend!

So yeah this is my first go ever and I ordered a handful of syringes online. - My initial syringe is gone and the rest are all unopened syringes. I utilized the whole syringe for this batch across 12 jars.

Would this be a good way to go about it? -

1) Break up jars with a clean spoon, discarding as much highly questionable mycelium and partially colonized rye I can? Filtering out all the best chance looking stuff?

2) Soak/rinse briefly.

3) Right into your shoebox method...... - But from here, what would the casing/mixing and FAE/Fan situation look like? Just mix and wait until full colonization and throw into fruiting conditions? No need for any types of holes are anything like that in the boxes right? Just 12/12 light?



1. Clean butter knife works well too but yes.
2. Don't rinse or soak, you want to either dunk or heavily saturate to get your 2nd flush though.
3. Yes let fully colonize before misting/fanning and introducing fruiting. Not sure how many holes a shoebox should have but I stuff my holes with poly fill and let it colonize that way

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Offlinelinkinparkrulz
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24871035 - 12/27/17 08:51 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

These jars look great. I wouldn't be worried about that. I focus mostly on using grain jars and I see this every so often. It never affected my fruiting process.

As for the stalled one that has exposed grain I had a similar experience using my incubator. I gave it an extra few days to see if it would colonize and didn't progress any further. I checked for any visible contams and it checked out.

Anyways I thought I would fruit it anyways and I can safely say that it is doing fantastic. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, I would say. But, I've let jars sit for awhile and it never ends up good.

Looks great though, no need to worry!

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OfflineSalRapasadi
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: linkinparkrulz]
    #24873229 - 12/28/17 10:39 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

If I was to take the pick of the litter from my 12 quarts, given there's a "what-if?" factor here... does it still make sense to dunk my colonized grain in this context? - I'm debating as to just spawning the 6 best to a mono and making a go-no go on the others.


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OfflineSalRapasadi
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24873257 - 12/28/17 10:48 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Guys, lastly.... this is kind of a general question that I'm having trouble zoning in on as well.... with limited space for multiple room usage, how do folks go about initiating fruiting procedures for say one tub or set of trays, while in proximity to another set of tubs or trays that might not be ready for that? I assume it's best to just put fruiting materials into one room with an indirect fan, and all colonization materials completely in a different room? I'm doing this in a walk-in closet....


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"All the years combine, they melt into a dream"

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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24873318 - 12/28/17 11:07 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

If you really want to Spawn the 6 best in a mono and go pick up 4-6 shoeboxes for the rest, should be less than 1$ at the local big box store or they sell em at dollar stores often too. The all the eggs in one basket approach is one to avoid when sceptical of cleanliness.

I spawned a bunch of  bacterial grains about 2 weeks ago and 3 shoeboxes went bad before fruiting. It doesnt hurt to throw away a tray or 2 if you have a bunch more going but it would hurt to throw away your only one, or you might even not want to because all the effort you put into it and then you have trich spores coating your house.

Each tray is its own fruiting chamber, introducing fae is done indivudually, light is not as big a pinning trigger so its ok to have tubs not ready for fruiting nearby just keep them sealed up and flip lids or switch from tape to poly when its ready. No need for seperate chamber with a fan, no need for a fan or fanning either, cubes get plenty of FAE passively.


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
πŸ…‚ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό πŸ„΄  πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό
πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό  πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ

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OfflineShrooms4life
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24873538 - 12/28/17 12:55 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

SalRapasadi said:
Guys, lastly.... this is kind of a general question that I'm having trouble zoning in on as well.... with limited space for multiple room usage, how do folks go about initiating fruiting procedures for say one tub or set of trays, while in proximity to another set of tubs or trays that might not be ready for that? I assume it's best to just put fruiting materials into one room with an indirect fan, and all colonization materials completely in a different room? I'm doing this in a walk-in closet....



I also grow in a walk-in closet and it hasn't been a problem at all, in fact mycellium benefits from light at all points of its growth. I fruit and colonize at 75Β° and my mycellium and fruits love that shit! I colonize on the top shelf of my closet and fruit down lower. Also shoeboxes are much safer and more practical in your scenario. Don't spawn all those into one basket and end up fucking it all up and getting no fruits.

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OfflineSalRapasadi
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: Shrooms4life]
    #24873688 - 12/28/17 02:01 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Thanks guys. - OK I guess there's really no reason to risk the monotub then. - I'll just grab a ton of these trays/shoe boxes and go from there. So let me know if I'm getting this right, just to recap before I go off into the wilderness on this:

1) Shoe boxes will not need fanning? Just a switch to polyfill as per monotub when sub is fully colonized? - Lid stays on at all times to maintain humidity as in a monotub as well?

2) Is it an either or situation with FAE in this instance? Either: Lid On + Holes switched over from tape to polyfill or -- Lid On -- Lid off at fruiting (no holes)?

3) No separate space needed, just.. if possible try to separate fruiting and colonizing boxes to different shelves within the closet?

2) No misting or anything required? Or is this necessary with shoe boxes?

3) Lastly, no dunking/rinsing of colonized myc... just straight into a sub layer in the shoebox and let it go? Perhaps a dunk or heavy saturation for (potential) second flush if it occurs?


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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: SalRapasadi]
    #24874205 - 12/28/17 05:18 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

No fanning needed ever, dont make holes just flip or crack the lid. Seperate shelves aren’t needed but help with organization Misting is only done when needed, usually after the first flush, unless you are open air fruiting but thats a conversation for a different thread. Dunk after first flush and put back into fruiting conditions immediately..


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
πŸ…‚ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό πŸ„΄  πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό
πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό  πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ

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Offlinelinkinparkrulz
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Re: Rye Jars: 90-95% Colonization: Slight Stall // Metabolites // Pins? [Re: AyePlus]
    #24874581 - 12/28/17 07:34 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

AyePlus said:
No fanning needed ever, dont make holes just flip or crack the lid. Seperate shelves aren’t needed but help with organization Misting is only done when needed, usually after the first flush, unless you are open air fruiting but thats a conversation for a different thread. Dunk after first flush and put back into fruiting conditions immediately..




I've never done a shoebox before. Seems straight forward, but my only question is how is O2 replenished and CO2 expelled if no FAE is introduced?

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