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OfflinePhred
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Creating Work
    #2482502 - 03/30/04 02:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This should be required reading for all politicians. It should be required reading for all Lefties and Libbies and teachers and union members and tort lawyers and MBA students. Hell, it should be required reading for anyone attending government school.

My guess is that few of the readers of this forum will bother reading it, though, so the chances of those on the list above ever getting around to it are slim to none.

Nonetheless, here is the link: http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/meyer200403290851.asp

Maybe some of y'all will forward it to others -- maybe even to your congressmen.

pinky


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Creating Work [Re: Phred]
    #2482634 - 03/30/04 04:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It is interesting to note at this point in time that if you do a search for corporate entrepreneurship you will find many many web pages insisting that it exists.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Creating Work [Re: Phred]
    #2482646 - 03/30/04 04:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Phrases like:

"We have reshaped our society to protect endangered species whose continued survival is of no discernible benefit, such as the black-footed ferret or the spotted owl"

tend to lead me to the conclusion that the author is a white spotted buffoon.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Creating Work [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2482807 - 03/30/04 07:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Lol! I was just about to quote exactly that phrase and realised you'd beat me to it.  :grin:

This guy is basically promoting rampant consumerism...yes it may create more jobs in the short term but how sustainable is it? are there any other effects that this chap may have failed to account for?

This bit made me chuckle as well:

Quote:

This means we want more than merely their tolerance. We want their understanding and even, perhaps, their gratitude.
 




oh please! Most workers will give these people respect and gratitude if they are treated with the same. Pay a fair wage throughout the entire company and keep pay rises at the same % level and you will gain even more respect and gratitude!

What strikes me as most worrying about Herb's position is that he seems to think protecting the environment is alot less important than protecting entrepeneurs.  Surely a combination of both positions is what is required. Environmentally and socially aware entrepeneurs should get bigger tax breaks while those who pollute, poison and exploit to maximise their profits should have their balls cut off...imho.


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Creating Work [Re: GazzBut]
    #2483169 - 03/30/04 11:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Pay a fair wage throughout the entire company and keep pay rises at the same % level and you will gain even more respect and gratitude!

Are you some sort of red? You arn't welcome round these parts boy  :grin:


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Creating Work [Re: GazzBut]
    #2483264 - 03/30/04 12:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Pfffft, gratitude!

I hate it when people do something purely and totally only for themselves and then act like they've done you some kind of favor.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Creating Work [Re: Xlea321]
    #2483319 - 03/30/04 12:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

oops..I'll get my coat then!  :grin:


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Creating Work [Re: Phred]
    #2483594 - 03/30/04 02:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Read it.  Regurgitated Ayn Rand.  :yawn:

The author seems to be arguing that we don't have enough jobs because everybody is obsessed with saving the black-footed ferret and everybody demonizes entrepreneurs.  Perhaps for somebody such as yourself who doesn't actually live in the United States this is a persuasive argument, but in reality it is patently ludicrous.

The average American idolizes entrepreneurs and doesn't give a rat's ass about the black-footed ferret.  Perhaps a small minority (say on the order of about 10% on the outside) thinks otherwise, but trying to pin the blame on them for the country's economic problems is absurd.

As for your "required reading" imperative, which is itself a regurgitation of the last paragraph of Meyer's article--MBAs and politicians have better things to do with their time than to read bloated rhetoric that is free of any actual content, whether it comes from the right or the left.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Creating Work [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2483613 - 03/30/04 02:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Phrases like:

"We have reshaped our society to protect endangered species whose continued survival is of no discernible benefit, such as the black-footed ferret or the spotted owl"

tend to lead me to the conclusion that the author is a white spotted buffoon.



Indeed. The author obviously doesn't understand the way ecosystems work.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Creating Work [Re: silversoul7]
    #2483624 - 03/30/04 02:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I get an emotional/psychological benefit from watching wildlife, I suspect that my children and grandchildren may benefit from this as well.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Creating Work [Re: Evolving]
    #2483652 - 03/30/04 02:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I get more than that. A lot of people don't understand how complex and fragile ecosystems are. The extinction of one species can have disastrous unforseen consequences. There's so many variables that it's often hard to predict what impact it might have.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Creating Work [Re: Phred]
    #2483765 - 03/30/04 03:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I dont agree with the whole demonization of environmentalism that this writing embraces.

I do agree with the fact that entreprenuership is stifled.  But I think it has more to do with huge corporate conglomerates raising the bar too high for individuals to match. 

Also, no one wants to take any risks anymore.  No one wants to be responsible.  So the big companies and their marketing kabals just keep repackaging and hyping the same old shit.  They keep finding new ways to use trends and fashion to convince people to pay more for the same old shit. 

I cant believe that the author of this piece actually considers "Starbucks" an entrepreneur's triumph.  I'm sorry, but selling cofee is not a new idea.  Packaging it in a trendy little quasi-bohemian way that fools morons into paying 4x its value was the only "new idea" that starbucks came up with.

You wanna see how sole proprietorship and entreprenuership are stifled?  Walk into a bank and ask for a small business loan.  You could have the greatest idea in the world and it wont happen.  Banks will write you all kinds of loans for education- they like having a vocationally trained but woefully indebt population of workers- it facilitates the process of mass consumerism.  But they do not give out small business loans anymore, unless of course, you are planning to open a new branch of a pre-existing corporate franchise :smile:


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinefatfunguy
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Re: Creating Work [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2484574 - 03/30/04 07:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This article makes no sense to me whatsoever. He tries to make a point about the struggle of entrepreneurs, and takes a completely unrelated stab at environmental conservation??? I don't know why people can't see issues unattached from fundamental political ideologies.

I totally agree with DoctorJ's point about corporate conglomerates. If anythings needed its more business regulation to loosen the grip the few powerhouses.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Creating Work [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2485788 - 03/31/04 01:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Regurgitated Ayn Rand

Sounds nasty  :grin:


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Creating Work [Re: silversoul7]
    #2485899 - 03/31/04 01:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Edit- I didn't mean to respond to you, I was just making a general contribution to the thread.

While I actually agree that we should make reasonable efforts to preserve wildlife and their habitats, some instances have been outrageous.

There have likely been many MILLIONS of species that have gone extinct during the course of life on this planet. Most were due to climate change, natural disaster, or other animals becoming better adapted to surviving in that habitat (kind of like humans have done globally). Humans have only been responsible for a small percentage of the total number extinct.

There's simply no way we are going to be able to preserve EVERY single species in danger, or even those not yet threatened. The eco-system is in a state of continual change. By it's very nature it is those who are best adapted to survival that thrive, and those who can't don't.

I'm all for enlarging national reserves by rightfully obtaining land. Regulating what can be hunted and how is not something I oppose. But when someone says a person can't build even a home on land they own, for fear it would interrupt an isolated strain of grasshoppers mating habits is ludicrous.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (03/31/04 01:46 AM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Creating Work [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2485905 - 03/31/04 01:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I agree that we can't afford to save every species. In fact, I don't believe we should be focusing on individual species so much as on the ecosystem in which they live, as I pointed out in this thread.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Creating Work [Re: silversoul7]
    #2485915 - 03/31/04 01:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Good points in the linked threads. Reason compels me to concur.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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