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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: cronicr]
    #24804563 - 11/24/17 08:57 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

When did you do this?! Is that going on now?


Quote:

TheMadHatter420 said:
Have you ever worked with any pans in the pods?



I haven't.  To my memory they need more air than Cubensis, and I haven't toyed with Pans since after my first couple Cubensis grows.
I meant to see how Galindoi/Tampanensis/CN Mexicana would do inside there despite the confined condition but haven't gotten around to it. I may do that soon.

They all definitely do well in THIS method, inside fruiting cambers.  In fact this method of single-step cake growing can be really solid for a variety of exotics.

When I'm of a mind to fruit stone producers, colonizing fat grains under a fat soil casing then fruiting before stones form has given me a solid yield of mushrooms then formed stones.  Only method where I've been consistently able to get multiple flushes before contam with the species. Stones form faster in fruiting conditions and I think the yield is higher when you water. Water lightly and more seldom.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #24804564 - 11/24/17 08:59 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I will keep this in mind if I ever get the hoog spores to germinate.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #24804569 - 11/24/17 09:01 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I have 13 going only one colonized and fruiting it was my lc tester the other 12 are about 30% right now...I can't grow indoors on a large scale so I've decided only this method cakes and macs method at this point


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: cronicr]
    #24804578 - 11/24/17 09:05 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Very cool. Like to see what you get.

I love how much growing I can do in a cubic foot with my methods.  I have my exotic grows (including cubie) down to 4 cubic feet of space or less, with no fruiting chambers or electronics other than an LED strip, and I'm at no lack for anything...


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #24804583 - 11/24/17 09:08 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I've put too much effort over the years into my outdoor beds and get far more then I'll ever need so any indoor actives are just in the name of science lol..
I'll knock up some pans and stuntzii tomorrow morning and give it a whirl.


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Invisiblehamloaf
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: cronicr]
    #24804594 - 11/24/17 09:13 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

"Pan pods."  :smile2:


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Offlinegourmet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #24806513 - 11/25/17 09:19 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

thanks for the response violet.  i know what you mean, i havent been a member long, but ive lurked for years, and ive read all the drama that went along with your teks.

i was baffled by how much hate they got.  even if the claims you made on yield werent accurate, youd think people would at least acknowledge that the idea is good for beginners struggling with contam problems.

i was kind of shocked at how little open minded-ness there seemed to be, and how much people seemed to be against challenging dogma and tradition... ironic.  it reminded me a lot of the majority attitude in the secular, materialist scientific community.

but i actually agree with most of the logic behind the vteks. it makes perfect sense.

i sell edibles at markets, and im just trying to find a way to consolidate the effort of growing gourmet mushrooms. im tired of dealing with straw and its problems and i cant get sawdust or fuel pellets or wood chips where i live.

i can get corn cheap, 50 lbs for 6 bucks.  im just trying to find an edible i can reasonably produce off bottom watered grain or cased grain.  i agree kings might be the answer. poplars too.  Where i live there's just a lot of extra challenges to producing mushrooms that most other people dont have to deal with, and ive been forced to find a lot of my own solutions, many of which have turned out sub par.

so im going to give v tek a go with kings and poplars on cased corn. if i get any results ill post pics. 

i know kings are supposed to be cold weather but ive had them growing healthy and heartily before inside a myco bag in 80 degree weather.  idk


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: gourmet]
    #24806582 - 11/25/17 10:06 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I'm very up front about my claims on yield. In my teks I offer a potential common range, accounting for some decent but varying multi-spore possibilities.

Culture matters so much. I mean cultures can potentially produce as little as zero by nature.
Cultures can have tons and tons of mushrooms... small, thin, and even still hollow ones.
Cultures can also grow many clusters of fruits tall, dense, and potent.
Internal water movement is crucial to mycelium and with it they can move tens of grams of water away from their culture source to a pin site on plastic. Finding the vigorous water movers can bring this tek to life.

All in all, you pick those monsters cultures out of the mess and see what can happen with these cakes. You don't see it all happen in one big wave from water fluff bulk subs, but you also totally skipped the purchase, process, treatment, inoc, colonization, and disposal of all that large yet low-nutritive material. The cakes can consistently stay whole and strong, picking up water and popping off mushrooms, for longer than many growers would guess. I feel confident that that ace culture to top even my own number beliefs is somewhere in these spore prints waiting to be germed, mated, ran on shallow seed, and plucked from speedy cluster onto agar.

That's the advantage of this tek with Cubensis, and it doesn't even really apply strongly to ALL Cubensis, for sure.

Culture matters so much for the same reason species does. I would be surprised to see many species produce the same high biological efficiency from whole grains as cubensis will with patience and watering.


BTW, corn sucks. Hope you can find some better yet cheaper whole cereal grains, or use brown rice.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Offlinegourmet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #24806589 - 11/25/17 10:09 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Is your beef with corn due to its nutrient content?

Or is it more to do with something else?

  I've tried all the grains in my area, and next to brown rice corn has the lowest endospore count here. The Wbs here is unusable.  I'm mostly using corn for the price.  Rice here is almost a dollar a pound.  I get about 5% contams in my jars. Using brown rice slurry to corn quarts.


Edited by gourmet (11/25/17 10:14 PM)


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: gourmet]
    #24806591 - 11/25/17 10:10 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

My bet is space...very large kernels very wee containers so space is precious


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: gourmet]
    #24806597 - 11/25/17 10:16 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

It's huge. Hard/costly to hydrate thoroughly, sterilize thoroughly, and offers so few inoc points and a slower consumption. Offers poor to none consolidation to the culture. For the same reasons, the container doesn't contain enough strong sub as its nicer counterpart brown rice. Digestion less likely to complete especially in an all-grain grow.  Considering its many poor use qualities its higher expense doesn't make sense.

Smaller popcorn can do better, I suspect, but am little interested in trying due to availability and affordability of massively preferred materials. I would absolutely turn in order to ryegrass, brown rice, millet, milo, wheat, rye, or oats before corn of any kind, especially for this method.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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Offlinegourmet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #24806612 - 11/25/17 10:28 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Have you ever experimented with bran?

Isn't that the ultimate nutritional substrate?

I mean I do say that knowing your opinion on rgs.  I assume the problem with bran would be the necessity of adding vermiculite.  Its too bad no ones found a way to fluff it up other than verm.

I had thought of substituting the verm with rice hulls, at least there's some nutes there.


Edited by gourmet (11/25/17 10:34 PM)


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: gourmet]
    #24806649 - 11/25/17 11:03 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

If your gonna replace the verm with rice hulss and add bran...may as well just use brown rice.

I use bran and verm a lot myself but the thing with nutrtion is more means more consolidation but from my experience not necessarily more mushrooms.

Dont nind my rambling i am pretty drunk atm


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: cronicr]
    #24807457 - 11/26/17 11:53 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I've used bran to supplement bulk substrates for many species. For this tho cronicr is right, just use rice.
Only advantage I can see of using your trick is not having to prep the rice which requires learning and/or attentiveness.
But as I might have mentioned here one great advantage of this tek is it can bring decent success with mediocre grain preps since it doesn't have to be broken up for any reason, either to spawn or even just to remove from the container.

I feel like a culture spiel

More nutrition doesn't always mean more mushrooms as cronicr said.
That's one reason I've been focusing so much more on culture since originally introducing the full grow-out expansion of the methodogy first. It was important to me at the time to show the simplicity etc while also mentioning the yield can be in the equal range of the best of other methods.  Well nobody did much in the range of culture to suit, I guess. Some of the biggest detractors showed a photo of one nice vtek canopy... of little midgets. His best of his presumably near only grow.  I have a number of photos people have given me of their grows but other than these disappearing names nobody else here has ended up showing recurring flushes of nice large mushrooms.

Culturing can also be thought of as saving time and turning containers over more quickly. These cakes can stay healthy so long that even soso cultures can be given the time, water, and potential to keep growing that extra fat mushroom or three into fifth "flush" and beyond. Originally I let cakes last so long I had them offering 5th-7th waves of fruits sitting naked in the bottom of a tote with a thin pool of water in places. I don't wanna bother with that. Doing a wave of my culture tek at a time stops me from having a bunch of unpredictable slow sitters in my containers which can make it seem pretty lame.

Bulk substrates account for this by providing the water fluff and the low-nutrition pinning site that buffers for culture's ability.  Traits I want to avoid like stubborn side-pinning or not pinning directly from seed without casing or immense patience, like only out on the plastic, don't appear to matter with bulk.

At first that seems like an advantage for bulk substrate but I believe it's actually an advantage for my methodology. That culture buffer is a crutch that comes at many costs. My methodology as a whole drops those costs and efforts and also kills lots of other myco pains not related to bulk substrates.

The part about avoiding bulk subs in favor of water and still getting such yield gonna be pretty specific to Cubensis. There must be several other advantages to my methods to take to growing gourmets too tho. I still use my ziplocs for agar containers with all species. I have also adapted my culture tek to pick a pair of good looking and very young Pleurotus Djamour cultures out of the multi-spore mess.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #24807489 - 11/26/17 12:12 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Gourmet, saw your edits. Sounds like corn is a game maker for you. If you can get even small qualities of a space-filler material like sawdust for your gourmets grain cakes, even just like 1/5th the sub, I bet watering corn cakes can go as well for you as anything in your scenario. $6 for 50lbs is very cheap and if nothing else is accessible anywhere close then hey. My responses have continued to veer towards Cubensis because that's what I see this tek as ideal for, but that's just the thing! The tek is very adaptable, it's an adaptation itself.  The style grows mushrooms easy and well and I have little doubt you can find a way, combined with a species/culture, to kick as much ass with it as you can.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Offlinegourmet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #24807755 - 11/26/17 01:54 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you violet, I've been thinking of something to use as filler space for the corn as well, sawdust is a good recommendation.  I tried rice hulls, it worked but didn't really seem to be an improvement in any way.

I'll try to take into account all your recommendations as I move forward with this.


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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #24811327 - 11/28/17 09:36 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

hey violet, although everything was fine in the jar phase, i am failing to fruit the cased jars now. i will update soon about what is going on, hopefully you and I could save about some labour i have put in the whole process..


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: mentat]
    #24811389 - 11/28/17 10:17 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Suppose you just have slower to fruit cultures? That can be a significant holdup with this method, especially depending on how you colonize the grain. They need chew time.  Without culturing, I might not necessarily expect them to fruit any faster than on the bulk sub timeline with their extra ~2wk colonization and then time til pinning.
Be patient!
In the meanwhile, be ready to clone any fast fruiters to help with future impatience!

Or do you think there's some problem? Here to help if I can!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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Invisiblementat
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #24811739 - 11/28/17 12:59 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I am experimenting and learning through the process.

so far, uncased, vermiculite cased, peat cased, coir cased jars, all healthy and consolidated fail to fruit. Some even have hard time going through the casing layer, some running for overlay. Some jars begun to show metabolite build-up, some yellow patches appear.

More than half of the jars I cased with sterilized material in the SAB showing vigorous growth within a day though, giving me hope.

Letting them chew in the grains was what i suspected so I am taking longer time on consolidation, however Stamets insistently stating in his books that such longer consolidation could drag down the yield potential drastically.

To set a control group, I will be trying to make 3 trays of sterilized bulk in the SAB as well.

Reading too much really getting to my nerves lately. I feel like getting away from home for a week or so..


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-Tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: mentat]
    #24811757 - 11/28/17 01:08 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I checked out your journal post again; 13 days ago, is that when you inoculated the grains? If so, don't worry. You're well ahead of what would be a spawn-then-bulk sub's or PF cake's typical schedule.  Casing should help them pin a bit faster but with multi-spore on whole grains you never know for sure.  Keep us updated!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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