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Offlinezymbass
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Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate?
    #24810363 - 11/27/17 09:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So if brown rice flour or rye berries work so great, I keep imagining what other substrates might be even better

I was thinking if you had a bunch of gourmet edible mushrooms would it be possible to like boil them, blend them up, and then put it in a slow cooker or something to remove all the water, then you'd be left with a high quality mushroom stock

So if you could reliably destroy all old spores, it seems like this would be the ideal mushroom growing substrate because it already contains all the correct amino acids and stuff that you need to build a mushroom in exactly the right proportions.

It may be more time and money expensive but you may end up with extra high quality psilocybe

Another thing to try as a substrate would be to add cooked eggs to the mix.  Eggs have everything needed for a baby chicken so maybe it would boost the substrate with all that high quality protein and all the other biological compounds which are in eggs.

Has anyone tried this?


Edited by zymbass (11/27/17 09:15 PM)


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OfflineFishLevelMidnightS
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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: zymbass]
    #24810378 - 11/27/17 09:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Each species (and even some individuals within a species) has different protein signature. There is nothing to suggest that a shiitake has the “right” amino acids for a Cubensis or otherwise.

Sounds like a good way to waste delicious mushrooms and money.

Think of it this way, it it was so beneficial for Cubensis wouldn’t it have evolved to consume mushrooms like red lobster mushrooms do? They grow on shit, not other mushrooms.

It’s kind of like saying humans would grow strongest if eating monkey or gorilla meat... not sure if that is the case.


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InvisibleHelnak
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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #24810390 - 11/27/17 09:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Try it and get back to us, I'd be interested to read your results.


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Offlinezymbass
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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #24810415 - 11/27/17 09:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

fishermansjc said:
Each species (and even some individuals within a species) has different protein signature. There is nothing to suggest that a shiitake has the “right” amino acids for a Cubensis or otherwise.

Sounds like a good way to waste delicious mushrooms and money.

Think of it this way, it it was so beneficial for Cubensis wouldn’t it have evolved to consume mushrooms like red lobster mushrooms do? They grow on shit, not other mushrooms.

It’s kind of like saying humans would grow strongest if eating monkey or gorilla meat... not sure if that is the case.





Well, I think the substrate is important because the substrate is literally what your mushrooms are made out of, and if you use a bad substrate you'll get nothing, so clearly the substrate is important, I know that for practical purposes BRF might work excellent, but it seems if BRF works so well then why wouldn't something even better work even better?

I think all mushrooms can grown on the dead remnants of their own species because this is how clusters of mushrooms form, one dies and then the next ones grow on the dead one, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that if you used high quality mushrooms as the substrate, you'd get super high quality mushrooms


Edited by zymbass (11/27/17 09:37 PM)


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InvisibleHelnak
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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: zymbass]
    #24810423 - 11/27/17 09:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Cubensis have evolved to digest certain foods.  There are more nutritious options than brown rice, thats why people use other grains, straw, coir, dung, and compost.


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Offlinezymbass
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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: Helnak]
    #24810433 - 11/27/17 09:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Helnak said:
Cubensis have evolved to digest certain foods.  There are more nutritious options than brown rice, thats why people use other grains, straw, coir, dung, and compost.




I would never use dung if there was another option, dung is literally toxic, why would you want to make your mushrooms out of toxic material?

What if you took Brown Rice Flour and then added some hardboiled and blended eggs for extra proteins?


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OfflineFishLevelMidnightS
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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: zymbass]
    #24810436 - 11/27/17 09:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So you are made out of Cheetos and Mountain Dew? Literally? People can survive on a lot of things without needing people or monkeys... he’ll some are even vegan and get full diet necessities.

No. That’s not how digestion works at all. Proteins are broken down into amino acids which are then used to build species specific proteins. Even if you were to eat karatin, it’s not like that persons karatin molecules would end up in your hair or whatever.

Yes the substrate is important but if you’re doing grain, that holds the vast majority of the nutrients your Cubensis mycelium uses and digests. The substrate you spawn too holds water mostly.

The things we use for cultivation are tried and true and have calculated nutritional value. There is also a cost aspect. Mayyyyyyybbbbbe gourmet mushrooms treated the right way would make an excellent substrate for Cubensis; are you going to spend $100 on gourmet mushrooms to make a monotub that a TC could make just as well with coir alone (for like $2)?


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InvisibleHelnak
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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #24810448 - 11/27/17 09:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Dung/manure is probably the best option nutritionally IMO


Edited by Helnak (11/27/17 09:47 PM)


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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: zymbass]
    #24810454 - 11/27/17 09:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

"You are what you eat" doesn't apply to mushrooms like it does with plants and people. There are mushrooms that have been grown on substrates contaminated with motor oil. The fruits contained no traces of the oil even though the mycelium consumed and removed it from the substrate.

Edit: here's a link for reference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycoremediation


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Offlinezymbass
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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: FooMan]
    #24810549 - 11/27/17 10:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)





Quote:

FooMan said:
"You are what you eat" doesn't apply to mushrooms like it does with plants and people. There are mushrooms that have been grown on substrates contaminated with motor oil. The fruits contained no traces of the oil even though the mycelium consumed and removed it from the substrate.

Edit: here's a link for reference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycoremediation





That makes sense, but there's no way that pouring motor oil on your mushrooms is going to make them more healthy.

I was thinking that maybe the mushrooms actually become "happy" when they have some Brown Rice Flour to digest, and even when they are in dung they are happy because it takes a lot of work to convert the dung into psilocybin, because they "enjoy" breaking down these toxic chemicals and converting them into psilocybin but on the other hand, I think BRF would be a bit boring and wouldn't provide the entire range of essentials that a mushroom would need, whereas an edible mushroom would.


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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: zymbass]
    #24810655 - 11/27/17 11:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

egg substrate sounds like a eggcelent way to grow a bunch of contamination, even pathogens.


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Offlinezymbass
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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24812324 - 11/28/17 06:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
egg substrate sounds like a eggcelent way to grow a bunch of contamination, even pathogens.





Ok, so hard-boiled eggs would grow pathogens, says the guy who grows in cow shit lol.  No offense but think about that for a second, if cow shit is fine, then how would hard-boiled eggs be bad?

There's way more pathogens even in BRF or any grain product for that matter because they are exposed to dirt, dust, and air, pesticides ect.


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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: zymbass]
    #24812333 - 11/28/17 06:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Protein content
Pathogens are microorganisms that can cause disease in humans. Usually they're microorganisms adapted to growing on meat/protein


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Re: Would it work to use old mushrooms as your substrate? [Re: zymbass]
    #24812423 - 11/28/17 07:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You sterilise the cow shit before you colonise it anyway - it pretty much contains mostly cellulose by dry mass, with micronutrients to promote healthy growth of the species colonising it. Eggs contain vastly more protein which pathogenic species are better adapted to growing on.


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