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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


Registered: 06/11/17
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Salvage contaminated Mycobag
#24805709 - 11/25/17 01:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hi there fellow Shroomerites! First post, but have lingered for quite a while(alot of lurkers around here im sure).
I have a mycobag I ordered from *****. Its an All-in-One grow bag containing pasteurized horse manure, straw, and rye berries. I noc'ed it up 41 days ago with a Multi-Spore Syringe. At 4 weeks(30+ Days), I was noticing very healthy and abundant mycelium growth, it was covering about 40% the rye berry layer from the bottom of the bag up(if you get what i'm trying to say here).
So, after smelling the filter patch and examining the bag for obvious signs of contams(none where ID'ed at this time); I decided to go ahead and mix the contents of the bag. I let it sit in a dark closet for another couple days. 3-4 days later I decided to check on my mushies!
I took a whif of the filter patch, and theres a undeniable sour-socks/sour apple smell. After perusing the contam. section, I concluded It was likely a bacillus or similar contam.
I'm pretty certain its got(or alot, new to this so not sure) a "Wet Spot" contamination(Bacillus, what species I have yet to determine).
Visually, there are portions of the bag that are soggy/wet to the touch(from the outside of the bag); In addition to this, the grains that didnt get mixed into the middle of the bag and remained stuck to the bottom of the bag have a brown/yellow goo surrounding them.
NOTE: I'm still getting pretty rapid growth in the bag, BUT there seems to be obvious signs of contamination and portions of stalled or non-growth in multiple spots of the bag.
In short, what I want to know is:
** Its likely done for, but:
- Is there ANY way I can remove what mycelium I have and case+fruit it in something else?
- Help me save my mushies please! 


Edited by bodhisatta (12/23/17 11:04 AM)
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hamloaf
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24805713 - 11/25/17 01:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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If it's contaminated there's no salvaging it. Pics would help to better tell if it's in fact contaminated.
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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: hamloaf]
#24805744 - 11/25/17 01:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Trying to figure out how to get images into my original post :/ Edit: There we go!
Edited by qqG (11/25/17 01:37 PM)
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hamloaf
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24805772 - 11/25/17 01:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's knotting before full colonization. That's a sign of contamination. If all you are concerned about is getting a few fruits, then leave it alone and let it push out some fruits invitro. Exposing it to air will cause whatever contam that is present to germinate.
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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: hamloaf]
#24805817 - 11/25/17 02:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said: It's knotting before full colonization. That's a sign of contamination. If all you are concerned about is getting a few fruits, then leave it alone and let it push out some fruits invitro. Exposing it to air will cause whatever contam that is present to germinate.
Where is the knotting your referring to? First grow, so If I get ANY fruit ill be happy 
Im very inclined to let it sit. Hamloaf, are you saying i would still get fruit body growth If i let it sit?
** I never planned on opening it indoors(Don't want to compromise the grow area!). If I decide to toss it, ill probably open it op outside and throw it into a planters pot with some casing and see what happens. Any recommendations for this type of growing(Outdoors, in containers, or whatever)?
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An_Observer
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24805926 - 11/25/17 03:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Toss that mess ASAP. It is not worth it to get a few fruits out of it which would have been exposed to that bacterial mess.
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TaderHoagie
Hypernormalized


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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: An_Observer]
#24805943 - 11/25/17 03:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Grow kits are ass.
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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: An_Observer]
#24805952 - 11/25/17 03:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Really stinks I wont likely get any viable fruit. I figured an all-in-one mycobag would be best for my first foray(see what I did there :P) into mushrooms.
In retrospect, 1/2 Pint Jar PF-Tek would have likely yielded better results. Less eggs in one basket, for one reason; Among many others as Ive discovered reading here and through my experience with this grow.
Well, you know what they say: The fuck-ups you make now are just practice for success 3 months later. Something like that O_O
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: TaderHoagie]
#24805959 - 11/25/17 03:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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-Don't buy "presterilized" stuff online. -Don't put a spore syringe into something like that. They only really work for cakes. -Fruits from bacterial grows are fine once dried. -opening indoors only compromises future grows if you have mold. Bacteria wont compromise future grows from opening inside.
Did you shoot a whole syringe in there? Did you attempt to "incubate" it?
-------------------- JOIN THE POW WOW
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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: -Don't buy "presterilized" stuff online. -Don't put a spore syringe into something like that. They only really work for cakes. -Fruits from bacterial grows are fine once dried. -opening indoors only compromises future grows if you have mold. Bacteria wont compromise future grows from opening inside.
Did you shoot a whole syringe in there? Did you attempt to "incubate" it?
I did shoot a fuck-ton of MS in there, it was roughly 6.5CC's. My logic was "more the better" I did not incubate, I had trouble getting temps stable in the grow-area for about 1.5 weeks after inoculation| 2Weeks+ Temps ranged from 68-74. A note on the above^^. It did get pretty toasty for a few days at the start(upper ranges 75-80), Im thinking maybe thats when the bacterial contams started germinating.
Thanks for the constructive response man! 
EDIT: So your also saying MS is more suited to the PF method?
Edited by qqG (11/25/17 03:36 PM)
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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


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Okay, so I probably used way to much MS when inoculating. Additionally, do you recommend incubating after inoculation? Any tips or recommendations aimed at the PF Tek(or general tips and tricks!) are greatly appreciated.
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,586
Loc: Canada
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24807217 - 11/26/17 09:44 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bags are tricky regardless. Relies on very clean spawn to pull off successfully.
The more spore water and grain, and by proxy, time to full colonization, all increase the risk.
For bacteria, rescue tek can work. Basically getting the good mycelium lumps out of the bag. Transferring to a clean vessel with dry verm. Then waiting to see if it rebounds or succumbs. Small amount of diluted 1:10 bleach can help stunt the bacteria without killing the myc. (prep prior to verm step)
If it rebounds, you can try and fruit and/or move a kernel to agar media.
My last pic in sig is rescue tek Tampanesis. Got me prints so a success for a beginning new cultivations.
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qqG
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: Snazz]
#24807231 - 11/26/17 09:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Snazz said: Bags are tricky regardless. Relies on very clean spawn to pull off successfully.
The more spore water and grain, and by proxy, time to full colonization, all increase the risk.
For bacteria, rescue tek can work. Basically getting the good mycelium lumps out of the bag. Transferring to a clean vessel with dry verm. Then waiting to see if it rebounds or succumbs. Small amount of diluted 1:10 bleach can help stunt the bacteria without killing the myc. (prep prior to verm step)
If it rebounds, you can try and fruit and/or move a kernel to agar media.
My last pic in sig is rescue tek Tampanesis. Got me prints so a success for a beginning new cultivations.
OK, This rescue Tek sounds like something Id be down for! So, I assume you would cut open the bag(outside the grow-area), give it a spray down with the 1:10 Solution, and then seperate the uncolonized portions from the fully colonized ones by removing it with a knife?
Can you explain in more detail how I would go about doing this?
EDIT: I have no Idea if its a purely bacterial contamination, there could be some mold growth in there(I dont know). Visually speaking, it appears I might have more than one type of bacterial contam. wandering around in the bag.
Edited by qqG (11/26/17 09:52 AM)
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,586
Loc: Canada
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24807321 - 11/26/17 10:48 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think the original tek vanished. Used to have one in my journal, but not there now.
You can use a baggie or a glass jar for the rescue. Proper air exchange is required.
One modification I did before was to make up a bowl of diluted bleach and use a fine sieve to dunk the rescued chunks. Then add to the dry verm. You are removing excess water and all external food sources.
Bacteria's strength is how fast it replicates. Mycelium's strength is that it's a complex organism. Basically you are just creating an environment that favours one over the other. Then it's up to the myc to defend or die.
It will have food reserves inside the chunks, whereas the bacteria has to fight to eat.
Mold is bad regardless. Mostly what will be hiding as white contam will be trych however.
And yes, do the recovery outdoors and with a mask if you own one.
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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: Snazz]
#24807610 - 11/26/17 12:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Snazz said: I think the original tek vanished. Used to have one in my journal, but not there now.
You can use a baggie or a glass jar for the rescue. Proper air exchange is required.
One modification I did before was to make up a bowl of diluted bleach and use a fine sieve to dunk the rescued chunks. Then add to the dry verm. You are removing excess water and all external food sources.
Bacteria's strength is how fast it replicates. Mycelium's strength is that it's a complex organism. Basically you are just creating an environment that favours one over the other. Then it's up to the myc to defend or die.
It will have food reserves inside the chunks, whereas the bacteria has to fight to eat.
Mold is bad regardless. Mostly what will be hiding as white contam will be trych however.
And yes, do the recovery outdoors and with a mask if you own one.
Thanks for the info man! Few more questions though, please enlighten me-
1) So use a baggie or glass jar to contain my collected mycelium spawn?
2) Prepare a bowl/container of the 1:10 Bleach solution. Im not familiar with sieves and stuff, could you explain this process a little more? excuse my noobness :p
And then, once the bowl and containers are prepared: Dunk the cut(with a knife or something right?) mycelium portion into the bowl for how long exactly?
Then remove and roll with verm, add to a FC?
EDIT: Everyone here is so helpful and prompt, thanks guys/gals!
Edited by qqG (11/26/17 12:57 PM)
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TreasonX
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Registered: 10/08/17
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24807653 - 11/26/17 01:06 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd toss it if I were you, not worth possibly contaminating your house/equipment for future grows. Also without being able to 100% identify the contamination present you could potentially be putting something toxic/dangerous in your body. I'm not trying to be a dick, just expressing genuine concern about trying to salvage contaminated spawn.
Better no mushrooms and out $50 than dead 
There is tons of information on this website you can use to start a grow of your own, and you can be certain of the sterile procedure used to produce your substrate.
Edited by TreasonX (11/26/17 01:08 PM)
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Snazz
Polymath



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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: TreasonX]
#24808151 - 11/26/17 05:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'll write a proper tek tomorrow. Posted in my journal
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Gurdjieff
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: Snazz]
#24808158 - 11/26/17 05:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Toss it. You cant even top fruit it.
-------------------- Man lives in sleep.
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TaderHoagie
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: Gurdjieff]
#24808234 - 11/26/17 06:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd go with GurdJieff. The work invested to save this grow would be better spent on starting from scratch.
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: TaderHoagie]
#24810323 - 11/27/17 06:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23325820#23325820
It's not really any work. Early on, resources mean a lot more than after you blow out a ton of monos.
Early experience on learning the life cycle and habits. All are lessons
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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: Snazz]
#24811322 - 11/28/17 09:32 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TaderHoagie said: I'd go with GurdJieff. The work invested to save this grow would be better spent on starting from scratch.
Quote:
Snazz said: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23325820#23325820
It's not really any work. Early on, resources mean a lot more than after you blow out a ton of monos.
Early experience on learning the life cycle and habits. All are lessons 
Woke up this morning to a few quarter-sized green splotches and these "green flakes" around it. Pretty sure its trich. or some kind of mold
I'm going to go ahead and toss it. Start again fresh this Spring with the PF Tek. I really like this EQ strain. Very healthy rhizmorphic growth and fast(and I mean fast!) colonization. I saw this strain beginning to chew up sub within 3-4 days of colonization.
Even though i had issues with it in this Mycobag; Which Ive learned is common, regardless of strain if a MS/LC is used; Rather than Agar or grain transfer.
Correct me if Im wrong here, but the general consensus seems to be MS/LC--> PF Tek || Agar/Grain2Grain ----> Mycobags. They need a cleaner spawn or something right?
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24811330 - 11/28/17 09:40 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bags really need clean LC or a few good jars to pull off. Longer the colonization time, the more (non)sterile technique bites you in ass.
Shoeboxes are quite stellar at seeing how clean those pints really are. Big monos are less prep but one bit of green will be that much more costly.
Cheers 
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somegirl
Registered: 08/28/17
Posts: 197
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24811351 - 11/28/17 09:55 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
qqG said:
Quote:
TaderHoagie said: I'd go with GurdJieff. The work invested to save this grow would be better spent on starting from scratch.
Quote:
Snazz said: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23325820#23325820
It's not really any work. Early on, resources mean a lot more than after you blow out a ton of monos.
Early experience on learning the life cycle and habits. All are lessons 
Woke up this morning to a few quarter-sized green splotches and these "green flakes" around it. Pretty sure its trich. or some kind of mold
I'm going to go ahead and toss it. Start again fresh this Spring with the PF Tek. I really like this EQ strain. Very healthy rhizmorphic growth and fast(and I mean fast!) colonization. I saw this strain beginning to chew up sub within 3-4 days of colonization.
Even though i had issues with it in this Mycobag; Which Ive learned is common, regardless of strain if a MS/LC is used; Rather than Agar or grain transfer.
Correct me if Im wrong here, but the general consensus seems to be MS/LC--> PF Tek || Agar/Grain2Grain ----> Mycobags. They need a cleaner spawn or something right?
More like spore syringes only can reliably be used to inoculate for PF tek. LC works great for grain or PF Tek but has to be made from agar, not spores. All of the above are MS. MS does get used quite a bit to refer to spore syringes, but not the same thing. MS is multispore, which is true of everything other than an isolate. MS applies to everything other than a clone or isolate, although using agar narrows the genetics.
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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: somegirl]
#24863588 - 12/23/17 10:44 AM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Anyways, Ive got about 3 CC's of MS solution left to fiddle with, and of course a brand new Rye-berry Manure/Straw grow bag. I want to try and get better results this time so I'd greatly appreciate some tips and recommendations on what ive already learned from this thread:
- Incubate the bag after inoculation * At what temperatures exactly? I have a small fan-based space heater I could use to warm a space up if needed.
- Dont fuck with the bag after I inoculate it, place it in a warm, dark space and check up on it as needed. * I was thinking about putting the bag in a small transparent latched lid sterilite container. would this be OK? Does the bag need fresh air while germinating or will putting it in a warm area inside the sterilite container work?
- Dont use TOO much spore solution * How much would you guys recommend for a grow bag containing 3lb of substrate? I have roughly 3CC's Left. ALSO: Would shaking the bag after inoculation help speed up colonization time?
Edited by qqG (12/23/17 01:06 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24863621 - 12/23/17 11:06 AM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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3. Spores of active species are sold for microscopy use only so mycologists can ID mushrooms. Cultivation supplies are for legitimate legal growing. If you're going to misuse them to grow a controlled substance, keep it to yourself. Any post which mentions 'such and such' vendor, will be deleted and you'll receive an official warning. No one needs to know where you got your spores, kit, or other supplies.
Please leave where you got your stuff out. No need to throw vendors under the bus
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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


Registered: 06/11/17
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: bodhisatta]
#24863639 - 12/23/17 11:16 AM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: 3. Spores of active species are sold for microscopy use only so mycologists can ID mushrooms. Cultivation supplies are for legitimate legal growing. If you're going to misuse them to grow a controlled substance, keep it to yourself. Any post which mentions 'such and such' vendor, will be deleted and you'll receive an official warning. No one needs to know where you got your spores, kit, or other supplies.
Please leave where you got your stuff out. No need to throw vendors under the bus
Absolutely, my mistake. It was never my intention to throw any one under the bus. thanks for the edit.
Could I get some input on my original questions though?
Edited by qqG (12/23/17 11:25 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24863641 - 12/23/17 11:17 AM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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All good. Just courtesy notice
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qqG
Aspiring Hobbyist


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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24865499 - 12/24/17 08:48 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
qqG said: Anyways, Ive got about 3 CC's of MS solution left to fiddle with, and of course a brand new Rye-berry Manure/Straw grow bag. I want to try and get better results this time so I'd greatly appreciate some tips and recommendations on what ive already learned from this thread:
- Incubate the bag after inoculation * At what temperatures exactly? I have a small fan-based space heater I could use to warm a space up if needed.
- Dont fuck with the bag after I inoculate it, place it in a warm, dark space and check up on it as needed. * I was thinking about putting the bag in a small transparent latched lid sterilite container. would this be OK? Does the bag need fresh air while germinating or will putting it in a warm area inside the sterilite container work?
- Dont use TOO much spore solution * How much would you guys recommend for a grow bag containing 3lb of substrate? I have roughly 3CC's Left. ALSO: Would shaking the bag after inoculation help speed up colonization time?
Id greatly appreciate some input on these questions
Inoculated about 2CC's yesterday, following sterile procedures. Put it in the above described container. Temps are roughly 68-72F inside the container. Now the hardest part, waiting! Still have about 1CC left, might try and make LC out of it, if thats even enough.
Hamloaf, not sure I feel comfortable working with agar yet. Lack of knowledge/funds Unless its relatively simple and inexpensive, then please enlighten me!!
Edited by qqG (12/24/17 08:59 AM)
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√



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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24865506 - 12/24/17 08:54 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Take the spores to agar. Once a clean culture on agar is established use the wedge and transfer technique to inoculate sterilzed grains in jars. Use fully colonized grains spawn from jars to inoculate bags. If you don't have a flowhood skip the bag step all together and spawn to bulk spawn generated inside of jars.
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Cybin_man
Circle the Wagons


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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24865696 - 12/24/17 10:33 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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First of all you should have bought a rye berry spawn bag separate from a substrate bag IMO. I just got done with two a couple months ago. I bought 2 - 2 lb rye berry bags and I bought 2 - 10 lb compost/substrate bags. I noc’d up the two rye berry bags, I think I used 2 - 3 cc’s each, I can’t remember exactly. And I put my two bags of substrate in the fridge until I was ready to use them. Or u could wait and buy them later when your spawn is almost done colonizing.
Don’t put your bag inside a plastic container when colonizing. I just left mine in a spare bedroom on top of an old entertainment center (away from the floor), and I have a little space heater that kept the room between 70-80 degrees. Once your rye berries colonize 40% smash up the mycelium and mix it throughout the bag then it will finish colonizing faster. That’s kind of why you don’t want substrate in the same bag as your rye berries. Then once your rye berries are fully colonized, you can break up all your rye berry spawn and dump it straight into a bag of substrate, seal it with paper clips, and mix it up really good. Then I let that colonize fully before putting it in fruiting conditions. Put it under some lights or by a window with indirect sunlight @around 70-75 degrees.
You can also make a monotub and mix up all your spawn and substrate and grow out of the tub instead of the bag. With my two bags I got around a pound of dried mushrooms. I did a couple more like this also (grown in a bag) and did quite well. Just do your inoculation in a sterile environment and be as clean as possible. I never ran into contamination until my bags were done flushing.
-------------------- mushrooms + my morning jacket = awesome https://youtu.be/xkY4isMi2Zc
 
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√



Registered: 12/23/09
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Re: Salvage contaminated Mycobag [Re: qqG]
#24865788 - 12/24/17 11:21 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
qqG said:
Quote:
qqG said: Anyways, Ive got about 3 CC's of MS solution left to fiddle with, and of course a brand new Rye-berry Manure/Straw grow bag. I want to try and get better results this time so I'd greatly appreciate some tips and recommendations on what ive already learned from this thread:
- Incubate the bag after inoculation * At what temperatures exactly? I have a small fan-based space heater I could use to warm a space up if needed.
- Dont fuck with the bag after I inoculate it, place it in a warm, dark space and check up on it as needed. * I was thinking about putting the bag in a small transparent latched lid sterilite container. would this be OK? Does the bag need fresh air while germinating or will putting it in a warm area inside the sterilite container work?
- Dont use TOO much spore solution * How much would you guys recommend for a grow bag containing 3lb of substrate? I have roughly 3CC's Left. ALSO: Would shaking the bag after inoculation help speed up colonization time?
Id greatly appreciate some input on these questions
Inoculated about 2CC's yesterday, following sterile procedures. Put it in the above described container. Temps are roughly 68-72F inside the container. Now the hardest part, waiting! Still have about 1CC left, might try and make LC out of it, if thats even enough.
Hamloaf, not sure I feel comfortable working with agar yet. Lack of knowledge/funds Unless its relatively simple and inexpensive, then please enlighten me!!
Don't use your spore solution to inoculate an LC with. That's asking for problems. Click the link below for an easy, comprehensive agar technique. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976#19208976
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