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OfflineCocalero
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Re: Coca growers [Re: DualWieldRake]
    #24795642 - 11/20/17 12:45 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DualWieldRake said:
I realized my what i thought was var. coca might actually be var. novo



Looks like it?




That's definitely a beautiful var.Coca :smile:

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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
    #24796589 - 11/20/17 08:09 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cocalero said:
Decided to tackle the sulfur bleach today







I flushed the dirt a few times and cut back some growth in order to shape the bush to collect light more evenly...





Finally I watered it with Camellia Fertiliser which is exceptionally high in Sulfur

Some Coca leaves





Some Novo leaves and flowers





Greets




:jawdrop:


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade

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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Coca growers [Re: ferrel_human]
    #24797133 - 11/21/17 03:35 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Absolutely beautiful! What lighting do you use for those novos?

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OfflineCocalero
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
    #24797190 - 11/21/17 05:19 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)


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InvisibleChemical Addiction
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
    #24797224 - 11/21/17 06:15 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

So after  germinating this seed it waited almost two week to pop up from the soil I put it in. I thought I put it too deep, but when it did finally come up the seed husk was already off. I killed my last two seedlings from impatience, now I have two other germed that have yet to pop. (one is still in the bag, trying naums advice)


--------------------
Vegetation has crawled for miles towards the cities. It is waiting. Once the city is dead, the vegetation will cover it, will climb over the stones, grip them, search them, make them burst with its long black pincers; it will blind the holes and let its green paws hang over everything.
—Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea

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OfflineCocalero
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero] * 2
    #24797649 - 11/21/17 11:46 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Check out the trunks on these guys



massive


Edited by Cocalero (11/21/17 11:48 AM)

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OfflineTeonanacatl2
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
    #24802687 - 11/23/17 05:52 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Ive got e. coca seeds with more than two months of harvest. Should i sow them in the ground? Which is the best way to germinate them?

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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Teonanacatl2] * 1
    #24803423 - 11/24/17 06:34 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Germinate them in moist (not wet) sphagnum moss, you can sanitize it with some peroxide or something first (then wash it out) to prevent molding. I would suggest using several baggies with sphagnum and berries to spread your risk.
Germinate immediately after harvesting because within about a month time there is an incredible drop in viability...

After germination, when the root is at least an inch you can plant them in properly draining (use perlite) and preferably pasteurized soil, again not wet but just moist. Cover with plastic to keep it moist. You shouldn't need to water anymore while the plants that are strong enough pop up.
Remove the plastic when they poke it and switch to humidity dome (you can improvise) if  necessary..

I don't know what your climate is like but E. Coca is less forgiving than E. Novo and I would always raise the seedlings in small pots in a controlled environment, so probably indoors. Do not use biodegradable sowing pots, those damp off.

More elaborate and continued descriptions of methods can be found multiple times in this thread.

Bravo again @ the earlier posts of beautiful plants, I have full spectrum cool white LED COB among other things but not your sort of lighting with very high power and a lot of red. Still trying to find out what they tolerate and need... It can be very intense under the COB so I don't wanna fry young plants under there but they apparently do need more light than I was giving them.

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OfflineCocalero
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
    #24803599 - 11/24/17 08:48 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)



LED like this 900W doesn't cost that much any more and doesn't need a transformer or anything. just plug and play. I would advise you exchange the stock fans though for high performance PC fans. all you need is a screwdriver and the courage to remove the warranty label.

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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
    #24803699 - 11/24/17 09:49 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I know, but the power bill would kill me, man... In that regard I might as well sow cocaine and hope I get some plants :smile:

My HID and COB are both low powered because A) that is about power as I can afford since I am poor for now and B) I have a sort of cabinet that doesn't allow properly long distances to install heavier lights - it's already a bit much!

I already have to improvise to be able to grow a bunch of exotic plants in my apartment AND have it look cozy AND not go blind from the light haha!

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InvisibleJayWise
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Re: Coca growers *DELETED* [Re: Solipsis] * 1
    #24803883 - 11/24/17 11:06 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by JayWise

Reason for deletion: .

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OfflineCocalero
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Re: Coca growers [Re: JayWise]
    #24804878 - 11/25/17 01:01 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JayWise said:
Well still no sign of life from the other four (and hope fading fast...)
but at least my one winner is still going good guns, new true leaves
out and proud!

When do I start feeding the precious little bugger?




Congrats. Looking good!

you don't really need to worry about feeding until they start floweing.
just keep waiting until the plant is root bound and then re-pot into
something 2 to 3 cm bigger the plant will get its nutes from there.
Unless you see signs of malnutrition you can wait, time and patients
from now on. most importantly when you re-pot try to keep the conditions
the same, don't take the plant into a room with a different temperature.

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InvisibleJayWise
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Re: Coca growers *DELETED* [Re: Cocalero]
    #24804945 - 11/25/17 03:26 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by JayWise

Reason for deletion: .

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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Coca growers [Re: JayWise]
    #24805263 - 11/25/17 09:33 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Depending on what grow cubes you are talking about there will only be a tiny bit of nutrients in there so yeah I would fertilize (check around for N-P-K ratio) as if it is nearly depleted otherwise I don't see how your seedlings won't starve after they use up their cotyledons.
Next time IMO use part soil in there (I use coco coir based soil) so you aren't left guessing so much and have some store of common nutrients.

I also really hope your biodegradable sowing pots don't encourage damping off, erythroxylum is supposed to be especially sensitive to rot..
Those kinds of pots IME are best used outdoors where there is a rather balanced ecology and you won't get proliferation of certain soil life so easily.

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OfflineCocalero
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
    #24805320 - 11/25/17 10:15 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DBotany

The soil of the montana where cocals grow is rich in mineral matter,
yet free from any trace of limestone. Like the tomato, coca is truly
an acid-loving plant. A small trace of alkalinity will cause the
plant to grow poorly with scant foliage. Generally, a rich, red clay
soil with good drainage is required. It is possible that metallic
soil might have some influence on the production of alkaloid...

Direct sun, allowed to strike your plants more than infrequently,
will lower the alkaloid yield. Too much sun will wither and dry out
the leaves of the plant. Prolonged sunlight could even kill a hardy
plant. In any case, the south exposure favored and desired by most
greenhouse growers can easily be avoided unless you live in the
mildest of climates. Shade trees, another nemesis of most greenhouse
growers, are a helpful item to coca growers.


Soil is several things to a plant. It is the medium which holds the
plant upright. It is also the medium that holds the nutrients so
that the plant can gather them in order to grow, flower and fruit.
Soil must also hold water in suspension. So the plants can gather
nutrients from it. There many substances that, if modified slightly,
might provide these three processes for a plant.

Certainly we dont have to start with some neutral medium. Right in
your neighborhood, or down at the local nursery, you can find soil
that will fulfill the three basic requirements to support plant
life. Some are better than others, some are easier than the others,
but with some minor modifications, which will be described in this
chapter, most soils will support your coca.

For beginners, it might be well to examine the three support
systems that the soil will provide for your plants: 1) supports
the plant 2) holds and provides nutrients, and 3) suspends water.
In this way you can get a clearer conception of how to provide the
proper soil for your coca. You can be as exacting as you wish, but
there are certain basic minimum requirements.

1. SUPPORTING THE PLANT: Of course, the plant must be held upright
in order that it can function, but the matter is somewhat more
complex than that. It must be held gently but firmly. Firmly so
that when it reaches six or more feet in height, it does not fall
over. Gently so that the plant has room to move and expand to grow.
The physical texture and structure of the soil also plays a vital
part in its ability to store nutrients and provide them to the
plants. Remember that the soil you choose must hold the young plant
gently but firmly.

2. HOLDING NUTRIENTS: Pedologists (soil scientists) have learned
that there are many nutrients that are important to plant growth
and more particular for our purposes, coca growth. The main
elements that must be in the soil for plant growth are nitrogen,
phosporous, potassium, magnesium, and sulphur. If the particular
soil you choose has a growth deficiency in any particular one of
these it can be made up with the addition of some special
substances. Sulphate of ammonia will provide nitrate and sulphate;
superphosphate, bone meal and basic slag will provide phosphate;
woodash and kainite will supply potash.

The three main nutrients, nitrogen, phosphorus and potash are
those contained in fertilizers. The three numbers on fertilizer
bags are the indices of how much of each is contained in the
fertilizer. The first number gives the amount of nitrogen, the
second number the amount of phosphorus and the third number the
amount of potash. The Sudbury Soil Testing Kit, which is available
at nurseries, uses color charts to help the cultivator determine
the percentage of each plant food that is needed in the fertilizer
mixture when it is applied at the rate of 5 lbs. per square feet.
The kits are easy to use and a must for a serious coca cultivator.
The soil tests may show, for an example, that the fertilizer
should contain 10% N, 20% P and 12% K. A fertilizer analyzing
10-20-12 would be ideal. Of course, fertilizer analyzed at 5-10-6
would work equally as well, but the amount added would have to be
doubled. Caution should be exercised whenever fertilizer is added.
Fertilizer is easily overdone and over fertilizing will burn your
plants up. It would be a good idea for every grower to touch a
bit of fertilizer to his tongue and see how it stings. It would
give him a much better picture of why fertilizer must be applied
with caution.

3. HOLDING WATER: The size of grain of which the soil is composed
is of considerable importance to plants because this affects its
water-holding capacity. Between the grains of soil there are gaps
through which the water will travel. If the gaps are big, water
will pass down very easily, but it will not pass up. It is only in
soil where the gaps are small, as in clay or loam, that water will
travel up as long as there is surface evaporation and enough water
to keep supplying the surface. This process is called capillarity.
Much less water is lost by evaporation when the surface of the
soil is kept loose. In close conjunction with water, it is
important to remember that the roots will need air as well.
Therefore, it must not be concluded that plants need wet soil.
Almost the opposite is true. If the soil were so wet and
waterlogged that air couldn't penetrate, the roots would be unable
to breathe and the plant would die. It follows then, that the
texture of soil must be such that it can hold some water between
its granules, yet be loose enough to allow the water to drain and
the plant roots to breathe.




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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
    #24805570 - 11/25/17 12:04 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

@ the last part: I have also read that in certain cases like with cacti, watering relatively heavily during long-ish periods of drought is actually better for oxygenation because so much water draining kind of pulls a vacuum and sucks in oxygen-rich air for the roots.

What I just wondered: would it be absolutely great for plants if you would water them with water that had an air bubbler in it for a day first to oxygenate it? Oxygen-rich air of course is not the same as oxygen dissolved in water (and other gases as well!) but still I am curious...

And no, without magnesium the plant has no chance of making chlorophyll... iron can apparently be important for coca too, but especially later on. Anyway, provide trace elements, often present in all-in-one fertilizer. Those are often NPK balanced so just add some extra bonemeal and you should be fine

Thnx for the NPK ratio :smile:

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OfflineCocalero
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
    #24805852 - 11/25/17 02:29 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Funny you should mention that. I just finished building an aeroponic
grow thing. I had to add an external cooler because the water pump
kept heating up the water, it might be a bit too strong. the next step
will be to create a continuous spray to keep the roots wet but
oxygenated



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OfflineTeonanacatl2
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
    #24805934 - 11/25/17 03:10 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)


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OfflineTeonanacatl2
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Solipsis]
    #24806010 - 11/25/17 03:49 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Im from south america, im almost in summer now, between 12 and 35 º C or  80 º F. Ty for the answer dude, i will keep your advise in mind and try to germinate. My seeds are e. coca. Im 10 meters above the see level.

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InvisibleDBCOOPERCE
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Re: Coca growers [Re: Cocalero]
    #24807023 - 11/26/17 07:33 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cocalero said:
To answer you question: Some species are self incompatible and therefore if you have 1 plant from which you take clones all your subsequent clone plants will share the same genes and can't reproduce

Quote:

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/dbotany/chapter2.htm

The trunk of the bush is covered with rough bark. The branches are sparse and are fern-green when new and will turn various tints of brown to gray as they mature. It is very common to see bud, leaf and flower on the same bush. The flower is also "perfect", in that it contains both male and female sexes and can thus pollinate itself.




Quote:

Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society Volume 78, Issue 1, January 1979, Pages 11–20

Erythroxylum coca is a distylous species with a strong self-incompatibility system linked with the floral dimorphism. The two sets of stamens in the flowers are usually unequal in length, but between individuals of both morphs there is considerable variation in the relative lengths of the two sets of stamens, which is unrelated to the incompatibility system. Pin flowers produce more pollen grains than thrum flowers, but thrum pollen is larger than pin pollen. Within each morph the two sets of stamens produce pollen grains of slightly different diameter. Erythroxylum novogranatese is also distylous. Pin flowers of E. novogranatense var. novogranatense are partially self-compatible, while thrum flowers of E. novogranatense var. truxillense are self-incompatible. Reports of tristyly and of four different morphs in species of Erythroxylum are probably misinterpretations, resulting from limited sampling, of the continuous variation in the relative lengths of the two sets of stamens.




Greetings





To take up this once again....I think we have a misunderstanding here. I thought you were telling us that all cuttings, even if self-fertile wouldn't be able to produce seeds. Some people tried to tell me that before, but couldn't give me any explanation.

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