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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
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Our grammar structure and vocabulary limit the ways in which we can discuss it in this format.
That's an interesting thought. I wonder how the Piraha would try to tackle consciousness.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss
Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 532
Loc: Queensland, Australia
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Re: Consciousness -- 3 differing views [Re: Kickle]
#24776944 - 11/11/17 11:38 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I agree in some sense. I think that if one can establish a framework to work within, one can work backwards towards a source.
I think the viewpoint of emergent must have a physical source. The other two don't imply their source though and could have a multitude of different views for origin. For example the Dalai Lama sees #2 but does not see the claustrum as the source. The neuroscientist sees #2 and suspects the claustrum as the source. Diverging sources for the same view.
Where I do not agree is in a shared definition. I don't see a definition in any of them. I see the origination of a definition in each of them.
For example the definition you provided would be an offshoot of #3 to me. But would contradict #2 and #1.
To define consciousness, one must use the word consciousness. Consciousness is _________________________________________________. But that does not mean that since the word consciousness comes before it's definition, that the word is pre-defined.
Then how is our discussion not purely semantic?
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
Last seen: 3 days, 6 hours
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Re: Consciousness -- 3 differing views [Re: secondorder]
#24777178 - 11/12/17 05:54 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dunno? I've lost track.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Consciousness -- 3 differing views [Re: Kickle]
#24790714 - 11/17/17 11:39 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think people confuse sentience and consciousness. As consciousness is happening through a sentient being and there's a great forgetting and rebirth of consciousness.
As consciousness doesn't adhere to a principal of time the big bang is basically irrelevant to consciousness and is relevant only to the universe and it's sentient beings.
Consciousness chooses to begin and end thru a sentient being. How convenient things always stay interesting.
Other beings can be sentient but consciousness is the "entire universe"
Science is getting to the point of showing people they're not separate from the air they breathe or the sun that rises. Theres an arbitrary border of electrons and our perspective calls air other. just like our arbitrary border on the earth makes us us and them other.
You cant exist without the air, without the earth to stand on. Humans need a substrate. Consciousness is the substrate and the human through the viewpoint of being a human.
Since our mind can influence the human through which consciousness is choosing it's aperture.
The universe exists for you. Not in a selfish way. It exists for everyone else too. You big banged a long time ago to get to this point today.
I think consciousness is a collection of the entire energy of the universe happening to be tuned into what feels like one person at a time but is actually simultaneously happening as a pinpoint with no time value at all.
As if the whole universe beginning to end exists in a bead of glass and that bead of glass itself is consciousness. And the energy within it is trying to express itself in the most eloquent way. Including using things as crazy as governing our physics with a quest to maximum entropy to really put us in a humble place.
We feel so concrete and real. So physical. We have dimensions and mass. But we're just a whisper of smoke to consciousness. A playdough of electrons that's painless to loose. What we think of as ourselves is seriously flawed. And we don't enjoy the unique opportunity of getting to live nearly enough. We feel like we are unjustly brought into this universe but its completely the opposite. You did all of this entire universe process just to exist in it. Fucking enjoy it.
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Frenetic Zetetic
Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 231
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Re: Consciousness -- 3 differing views [Re: bodhisatta]
#24792943 - 11/19/17 02:49 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Consciousness is...
...Very mercurial, so say the least. Interesting views here.
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"Take it easy, dude. But TAKE it!" - Terence McKenna
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