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TempestDnB
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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: XUL]
#24789933 - 11/17/17 04:40 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nobody called the believers idiots, it's not cool to put words in people's mouths.
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“How happy is the blameless vestal’s lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each pray’r accepted, and each wish resign’d”
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TempestDnB
Lost but found.



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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: flickedbic] 1
#24789946 - 11/17/17 04:45 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I didn't think there was a whole lot of archeological evidence that supports the scriptures.. just archeological finds that had scripture applied to them. I didn't know there was evidence for an empty tomb either. What fulfilled old testament prophecies? As I see it, the Bible is the longest running game of telephone.
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“How happy is the blameless vestal’s lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each pray’r accepted, and each wish resign’d”
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XUL
OTD Janitor



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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: TempestDnB]
#24789950 - 11/17/17 04:47 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TempestDnB said: Nobody called the believers idiots, it's not cool to put words in people's mouths.
Look at the poll.
I was referring to the poll.
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TRUMP 2020
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TempestDnB
Lost but found.



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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: XUL]
#24789991 - 11/17/17 05:10 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh yeah lol, I forgot you worded it that way.
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“How happy is the blameless vestal’s lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each pray’r accepted, and each wish resign’d”
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prettyMushy



Registered: 04/03/12
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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: TempestDnB] 1
#24790135 - 11/17/17 06:10 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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i wanna come back as a half mushroom half man
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Envix
Avoidant Disorder



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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: prettyMushy] 1
#24790162 - 11/17/17 06:21 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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it depends what you define as "afterlife". i believe that we exist in this reality as a process of samsara, and are destined to repeat it over and over through reincarnation for the rest of time. whether it be on this planet or another planet or a different dimension.
do i think there exists a reality where everything is absolute bliss and pure perfection? nahh. i mean unless you have the right drugs
-------------------- smack a hoe out this dimension continue my ascension -bhad bhabie rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b
Edited by Envix (11/17/17 06:32 PM)
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Morel Guy
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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: flickedbic]
#24790180 - 11/17/17 06:28 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
flickedbic said:
Quote:
It seems like people really want for there to be an after life..
I used to think this as an atheist. Now as a weak agnostic I see Christianity as a real possibility. But it's not something I want to believe; that I have to give up all these fun, self-gratifying sins or else face a terrible punishment.
I don't want to give up lusting masturbation, drunkenness, sex out of marraige, lying, etc. These things are fun and easy.
Sometimes I wish I could still believe that Jesus never existed, that I never learned of the crucifixion, the empty tomb, the verified authorship of the Pauline epistles, the fulfilled old testament prophecies, the accuracies and archeological support of the scriptures.
But I've always wanted to know the truth, and now have a difficult topic to wrestle to completion.
Think of it this way. Which is the easier miracle and the most common form of story telling. That the truth written is a lie and just to make people believe..........or it really happened?
There was no Matthew in the middle east. Sorry. It's most likely that the bible was a form of propaganda. It's hard to even tell with all the years that past from that point. Who knows what stories will be told about today in the future. The very nature of language and communication changes so much over time. What a phrase meant a long time ago tends to have a different meaning.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Envix
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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: Envix] 2
#24790182 - 11/17/17 06:28 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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i think when we die it is the same as falling into a black hole. there is only singularity. and the past and the present and the future are one in the same. there is no time, and you don't exist within the structure of time.
there has to be time and space for you to exist in. so when you die, you no longer exist. period.
will you live again? probably not. but life will go on. it just wont be the "you" you think you are. but it will still be you. you just wont know it. that would take all the fun out of it.
-------------------- smack a hoe out this dimension continue my ascension -bhad bhabie rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b
Edited by Envix (11/17/17 06:30 PM)
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Morel Guy
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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: Envix] 1
#24790189 - 11/17/17 06:35 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've seen a place fully under anesthesia that makes me wonder. I was only about 5 at the time.
It was a room, a very bright room that I never noticed walls. It was huge and there were building, housing like structures. There were light beings, humanoid types traveling this space on disks like UFO's. They were standing on them. My recently deceased Grandma was one of these beings and was there. We talked and I think today about what we spoke about then. I think they were surprised to see me. It wasn't my time but I wanted in. I think she or her spirit or whatever told me I had to die to get in there. That it would take awhile.
It's stayed with me.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: Morel Guy] 2
#24790278 - 11/17/17 07:30 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe in the afterlife based on experiences in my life. It seems as if i am remembering more and more about the after life state as i get older.
Once you realize everything happens for a reason, and then connect the dots as to why these things happen, then the afterlife seems not only questionable, but obvious.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#24790288 - 11/17/17 07:33 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Even if the afterlife is a state of total rest then i consider that a major win.
Thats all i want. A place to rest my head.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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flickedbic
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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: TempestDnB]
#24790453 - 11/17/17 08:56 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TempestDnB said: I didn't think there was a whole lot of archeological evidence that supports the scriptures.. just archeological finds that had scripture applied to them. I didn't know there was evidence for an empty tomb either. What fulfilled old testament prophecies? As I see it, the Bible is the longest running game of telephone.
It's not a telephone game because we have early scripture recorded in greek and hebrew to refer to. Of course they weren't called by the names of Matthew, John, Mary, or Jesus until the translation of the texts.
Quote:
Almost all scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed(...) two events subject to "almost universal assent" are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels
Quote:
The earliest Christian creeds and hymns express belief in the risen Jesus, e.g., that preserved in 1 Corinthians 15:3–41.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_1st_century
Quote:
The antiquity of the creed has been located by most biblical scholars to no more than five years after Jesus' death, probably originating from the Jerusalem apostolic community.[2] (...)The creed has been deemed to be historically reliable and is claimed to preserve a unique and verifiable testimony of the time.[4][5]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Corinthians_15
Resurrection-based Christianity was spread in the very place where there were the eyewitnesses and the tomb to validate or quickly dispel all the commotion.
There was no body to be shown to quench this wildfire spread of the Christianity of unrecanting, witnessing martyrs. The best the Jews are recorded as being able to do was to allege that the disciples stole the body...
There are many, many ancient, old testament messianic prophecies that predicted a rejected by his people, suffering death for atonement messiah (i.e. Isaiah 53) who was to come before the Second Temple's destruction in 70 AD (Malachi 3:1), and especially noteworthy for accurate timing is Daniel's 70 week prophecy.
Here is a short list: https://jewsforjesus.org/answers/top-40-most-helpful-messianic-prophecies/
The archeology is there also. Bible critics have often been embarrassed by discoveries that corroborated Bible accounts they had previously deemed to be myth, such as the existence of the Hittites, King David, and Pontius Pilate. In addition to Jericho, places such as Haran, Hazor, Dan, Megiddo, Shechem, Samaria, Shiloh, Gezer, Gibeah, Beth Shemesh, Beth Shean, Beersheba, Lachish, and many other urban sites have been excavated, quite apart from such larger and obvious locations as Jerusalem or Babylon:
Jericho- The Wall of Jericho is the oldest city wall discovered by archaeologists anywhere in the world.
In the Old Testament, in Joshua chapter 6, we have an account of theIsraelites defeating the city of Jericho when they came into the Promised Land after wandering in the wilderness for 40 years.
The first major excavation of the site of Jericho, located in the southern Jordan valley in Israel, was carried out by a German team between 1907 and 1909. They found piles of mud bricks at the base of the mound the city was built on.
It was not until a British archaeologist named Kathleen Kenyon reexcavated the site with modern methods in the 1950s that it was understood what these piles of bricks were. She determined that they were from the city wall which had collapsed when the city was destroyed!
The story in the Bible goes on to say that when the walls collapsed, the Israelites stormed the city and set it on fire. Archaeologists found evidence for a massive destruction by fire just as the Bible relates. Kenyon wrote in her excavation report, "Walls and floors were blackened or reddened by fire, and every room was filled with fallen bricks, timbers, and household utensils; in most rooms the fallen debris was heavily burnt.”
Hittites- A century ago the Hittites were unknown outside of the Old Testament, and critics claimed that they were a figment of biblical imagination. In 1906, however, archaeologists digging east of Ankara, Turkey, discovered the ruins of Hattusas, the ancient Hittite capital at what is today called Boghazkoy, as well as its vast collection of Hittite historical records, which showed an empire flourishing in the mid-second millennium BC. This critical challenge, among many others, was immediately proved worthless — a pattern that would often be repeated in the decades to come.
Abrahams' Ur-
Mentioned in the Bible as the hometown of Abraham, Ur around 2000 B.C. was the center of a wealthy empire that drew traders from as far away as the Mediterranean Sea, 750 miles to the west, and the Indus civilization some 1,500 miles to the east.
The bleak and tawny desert of southern Iraq is a strange place to find dark tropical wood.
There are texts that speak about the ‘black wood of Meluhha,’” said Elizabeth Stone of the State University of New York at Stony Brook last year, who is co-leading the Ur excavations. “But this is our first physical evidence.”
In the 1920s and 1930s, British archaeologist Leonard Woolley dug up some 35,000 artifacts from Ur, including the spectacular remains of a royal cemetery that included more than 2,000 burials and a stunning array of gold helmets, crowns, and jewelry that date to about 2600 B.C. The site is being opened up again and scientists are digging deeper in 2017 excited to see what else they will discover.
The House of David proven by Tel Dan Stela - The ninth century BC inscription on this plaque in the city of Dan was cursing David then, but was the first hard evidence found confirming his existence.
Shishak’s Invasion of Judah- First Kings 14 and 2 Chronicles 12 tell of Pharaoh Shishak’s conquest of Judah in the fifth year of the reign of King Rehoboam, and how Solomon’s temple in Jerusalem was robbed of its treasures on that occasion. This victory is also commemorated in hieroglyphic wall carvings on the Temple of Amon at Thebes.
The Moabite Stone- Second Kings 3 reports that Mesha, the king of Moab, rebelled against the king of Israel following the death of Ahab. A three-foot stone slab, also called the Mesha Stele, confirms the revolt by claiming triumph over Ahab’s family, c. 850 BC, and that Israel had “perished forever.”
The Sennacherib Prism- After having conquered the 10 northern tribes of Israel, the Assyrians moved southward to do the same to Judah (2 Kings 18–19). The prophet Isaiah, however, told Hezekiah that God would protect Judah and Jerusalem against Sennacherib (2 Chron. 32; Isa. 36–37). Assyrian records virtually confirm this. The cuneiform on a hexagonal, 15-inch baked clay prism found at the Assyrian capital of Nineveh describes Sennacherib’s invasion of Judah in 701 BC in which it claims that the Assyrian king shut Hezekiah inside Jerusalem “like a caged bird.” Like the biblical record, however, it does not state that he conquered Jerusalem, which the prism certainly would have done had this been the case. The Assyrians, in fact, bypassed Jerusalem on their way to Egypt.
Pool of Siloam- Accidentally discovered in 2004 while repairing a large water pipe near Jerusalem's Temple Mount, this was the monumental pool where Jesus had the blind man wash his eyes and be healed. also found was Hezekiah’s Siloam Tunnel and Inscription. King Hezekiah of Judah ruled from 721 to 686 BC. Fearing a siege by the Assyrian king, Sennacherib, Hezekiah preserved Jerusalem’s water supply by cutting a tunnel through 2,000 feet of solid rock from the Gihon Spring to the Pool of Siloam inside the city walls (as described in 2 Kings 20; and 2 Chron. 32). At the Siloam end of the tunnel, an inscription celebrates this remarkable accomplishment.
The Bethesda Pool-
Among the most famous of Jesus’ miracles is recounted in the Gospel of John, where Jesus heals the paralytic at the Bethesda Pool (John 5:2-9). It is not the only one of Jesus’ miracles of healing to take place at a pool in Jerusalem, however. In addition to the Bethesda Pool, we mentioned how the Gospel of John also says that Jesus healed the blind man at the Siloam Pool. After the Siloam Pool was discovered in 2004 it was quickly identified with the pool mentioned in John. The Bethesda Pool, on the other hand, was excavated in the late 19th century, but it has taken more than 100 years for archaeologists to accurately identify and interpret the site.
The Jesus miracle story also tells how many people sought the Bethesda Pool’s healing powers. The first person to enter the pool when the waters were stirred up would supposedly be cured of his or her ailment. But, the paralytic tells Jesus, he can never get into the water quickly enough. So Jesus immediately cures him, and he is able to get up and walk.
When Jesus heals this paralytic in the Gospel of John, the Bethesda Pool is described as having five porticoes—a puzzling feature suggesting an unusual five-sided pool, which most scholars dismissed as an unhistorical literary creation. Yet when this site was excavated, it revealed a five-sided pool—and each side had a portico.
Burial Plaque of King Uzziah- Down in Judah, King Uzziah ruled from 792 to 740 BC, a contemporary of Amos, Hosea, and Isaiah. Like Solomon, he began well and ended badly. In 2 Chronicles 26 his sin is recorded, which resulted in his being struck with leprosy later in life. When Uzziah died, he was interred in a “field of burial that belonged to the kings.” His stone burial plaque has been discovered on the Mount of Olives, and it reads: “Here, the bones of Uzziah, King of Judah, were brought. Do not open.”
Tomb of Caiaphas- An extraordinary archaeological discovery that confirms the biblical record barely receives any notice in the press, as witness the bones of the first biblical personality ever discovered in November, 1990. Generally, only one in a hundred know that the remains of Joseph Caiaphas, the high priest who indicted Jesus before Pontius Pilate on Good Friday, were found at that time in an ossuary in the Peace Forest of Jerusalem south of the Temple area.
New York Times writes:
"Israeli archeologists have discovered the family tomb of Caiaphas, the Jewish High Priest who presided at the trial of Jesus and delivered Him to the Romans to be crucified.
(...)
Although it has been nearly two years since the site was uncovered, researchers have taken until now to assure themselves through the writing on the walls of the tomb and artifacts found with the bones that the remains were indeed those of the priestly family."
In the words of the University of Yale archaeologist Millar Burrows:
"…Archeological work has unquestionably strengthened confidence in the reliability of the scriptural record. More than one archeologist has found respect for the Bible increased by the experience of excavation in Palestine."
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watermelon mon
Willow Trees

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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#24790455 - 11/17/17 08:58 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Everything you do right now echoes on into the eternity of space and time
All life is worthey all life is equal
I do believe in somekind of life after death have connected with it on many levels
plants nature it is one of the only thing thats true anymore
all things are conected thoughts become realitey
Edited by watermelon mon (11/17/17 09:00 PM)
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TempestDnB
Lost but found.



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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: flickedbic]
#24790491 - 11/17/17 09:08 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Before I read through this tomb that you wrote up, I'd like to say that before they were translated to those languages, they were translated from at least one other dead language, Aramaic to be specific. Before that these stories were told orally for around 40-90 years before they were ever written down. Also, there were more than just people's names being lost in translation. One of my favorite being the kaneh bosm mistranslation. Currently it's thought that Jesus used a useless swamp Reed for his anointing oil, instead of cannabis, which is the most accurate translation. Also:
Actual archeology being used to understand the Bible.
Edited by TempestDnB (11/17/17 10:02 PM)
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flickedbic
Sojourner



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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: TempestDnB]
#24790507 - 11/17/17 09:13 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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TempestDnB
Lost but found.



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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: flickedbic]
#24790519 - 11/17/17 09:19 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Good read man, thank you for that
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“How happy is the blameless vestal’s lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each pray’r accepted, and each wish resign’d”
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prettyMushy



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 1,828
Loc: Canada
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Re: Regardless of religion, do you believe in an afterlife? [Re: TempestDnB] 1
#24790549 - 11/17/17 09:48 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TempestDnB said: Before I read through this tomb that you wrote up, I'd like to say that before they were translated to those languages, they were translated from at least one other dead language, Aramaic to be specific. Before that these stories were told orally for around 40-90 years before they were ever written down. Also, there were more than just people's names being lost in translation. One of my favorite being the kaneh bosm mistranslation. Currently it's thought that Jesus used a useless swamp Reed for his anointing oil, instead of cannabis, which is the most accurate translation. Also: [flash=,]https://youtu.be/O5RfScpEcZ8[/flash] Actual archeology being used to understand the Bible.
thats not completely true, while some of it was written in aramaic, some was written in hebrew and greeks. i have studied ancient hebrew and actually have a greek hebrew bible.
a group of scribes called tannaim maintained the sacred tradition of copying down scrolls and its more than 3 mistakes were found on any page it was destroyed. (old testament)
the greek NT as it is known today has approximately 138,000 words, the best estimate is there are as many as 400,000 textual variants among the manuscripts but the large number of variants is due to the large number of manuscripts. between 100c to 150c - there are over 5,700 existing manuscript.
the most common textual variant is NU - an accidental N put at the end of a word. which is a common and nonsense spelling error.
second category is minor changes of synonyms or proper nouns such as "the Barnabas" instead of "barnabas" or "the barnabas"
3rd category is meaningful yet not viable - meaning an error such as The 'Gospel of God' or something similar normal to scribe fatigue.
These errors are mostly found in later manuscripts and are check against earlier ones.
to give you a comparison, the HISTORY OF LIVY - BC 59 - AD 17 - only has 27 copies, but we never doubt it as history
Tacitus - AD56-120 - only has 3 existing copies.
when it coms to the temporal distance of the earlier copies of the NT from the original, NT critics enjoy the abundance of materials, to be sure they are fragments byt some are fairly size fragments covering large portions of pauls letters including most of the ideology of christian faith. of whole manuscripts before 400ad - 99 still exist including the most known and oldest codex sinaiticus
-------------------- Anything posted from this account is made up for the entertainment of others, this account is a complete work of fiction. Its not illegal to get bored and make up stories, authors do it all the time.
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