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Offlinemichalis
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first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed
    #24772639 - 11/10/17 12:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

hi guys, first post here

never had shrooms before but just ordered my first grow kit

been suffering from depression for years and conventional medication has not helped me, i'm hoping psychedelics might help ease some of my symptoms

anyhow, been researching on how to use a grow kit, how to create spore syringes/spore prints

its really weird to me, why is such emphasis placed on sterilization. after all, dont mushrooms grow in the wild, and in very unsanitary conditions?

also, since it will be my first grow kit, any advice on how not to screw it up, eg common mistakes by rookies?


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OfflineKrombopulosM
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: michalis]
    #24772690 - 11/10/17 12:56 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

U have a long road ahead of u lol. Ur at the best place to start tho. If u want to guarantee growth of your mushroom mycelium u need to inoculate a sterile media . That media now will be susceptible to any and all bacterial fungi and all sorts of nasties. The mushrooms will grow in all sorts of conditions as long as the environment is right but they won't grow how u want Read the sticky posts attached to the top of the forum and you'll be good to go

Good luck


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InvisibleBoxer
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: KrombopulosM]
    #24772826 - 11/10/17 04:19 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

There are good reasons for a high emphasis on sterilization. One thing you want to keep in mind here, things are recommended to be done the way they are because
it's simple and it works, don't assume you know better with zero experience under your belt. Sure they grow in the wild amongst all kinds of contamination, what you're not
accounting for is the 99.9% of spores that didn't make it, it proves nothing. Contamination will seriously mess with the growth of your cubes, presumably slow/ stunted/
mutated growth is something you want to avoid, assuming they make it to fruiting at all. Contamination also forces the mushroom into close proximity [depending upon
the type] to molds and the like that can seriously impact your health, people get sick from infestations of them fairly commonly. Death while very unlikely is not unheard of
in the most serious of cases of prolonged repeated exposure.


Edited by Boxer (11/10/17 04:41 AM)


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InvisiblewildernessjunkieM
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: Boxer]
    #24772840 - 11/10/17 04:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

What mushrooms do in indoor cultivation, is completely sepatarte from what they doo in a wild outdoor scenario. Sterilization opens a window of opportuniy, that would otherwise be unavailable in nature. When it comes down to it, we are narrowing natural selection by selection and domestication.


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Offlinemichalis
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #24772852 - 11/10/17 05:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks KrombopulosM, Boxer & wildernessjunkie, I appreciate your replies

yes definitely I will go through the guides on here

and I'm not questioning the methods and the wisdom, nor do I purport to know better, I just have a need to satisfy my curiosity

@Boxer - what you say makes sense, a lot of spores in the wild probably dont make it, but there are still obviously a lot that make it in very unsanitary conditions. The other thing is, if non sterile conditions have an adverse effect on the effectiveness, or even the edibility of mushrooms, how were the benefits of magic mushrooms discovered in the first place

anyhow, thank god for human ingenuity. figuring out how to grow a fungus indoors :smile:


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InvisibleBoxer
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: michalis]
    #24772865 - 11/10/17 05:42 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The number of spores that are released by the mushroom upon opening of the veil would number in the millions at least. It would most likely come down to sheer
statistical probability, that a very small percentage will come upon and area that's relatively suitable. You would be surprised how many things were discovered at
random, LSD is only a thing because a researcher experimenting with bio-synthetic chemicals accidentally spilled some on his hand and discovered it's effects. The
vulcanization process used on tyres is only a thing because the inventor accidentally flipped some rubber onto a stove top, and many, many, others.

Edit - It depends a lot upon the type of contamination as to how serious it is, bacterial contamination while messing with growth, won't necessarily prevent fruiting and
is harmless to us. Mold on the other hand can have some seriously adverse effects such as outright killing the mycelium/mutation etc. and is much more harmful to
humans in general.


Edited by Boxer (11/10/17 05:57 AM)


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Offlinemichalis
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: Boxer]
    #24772874 - 11/10/17 06:05 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Boxer said:
The number of spores that are released by the mushroom upon opening of the veil would number in the millions at least. It would most likely come down to sheer
statistical probability, that a very small percentage will come upon and area that's relatively suitable. You would be surprised how many things were discovered at
random, LSD is only a thing because a researcher experimenting with bio-synthetic chemicals accidentally spilled some on his hand and discovered it's effects. The
vulcanization process used on tyres is only a thing because the inventor accidentally flipped some rubber onto a stove top, and many, many, others.

Edit - It depends a lot upon the type of contamination as to how serious it is, bacterial contamination while messing with growth, won't necessarily prevent fruiting and
is harmless to us. Mold on the other hand can have some seriously adverse effects such as outright killing the mycelium/mutation etc. and is much more harmful to
humans in general.




nice, I appreciate you taking the time to explain some things, its a fascinating subject


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InvisibleBoxer
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: michalis]
    #24772884 - 11/10/17 06:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

No problem as it's nice to have someone willing to listen, there are many that insist on learning the hard way. I'm quite taken with the subject as a whole,
not something I thought would happen but here we are :smile:.


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Offlinemichalis
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: Boxer]
    #24772923 - 11/10/17 07:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Boxer said:
No problem as it's nice to have someone willing to listen, there are many that insist on learning the hard way. I'm quite taken with the subject as a whole,
not something I thought would happen but here we are :smile:.




:thumbup:

well, they do say that 'gardening' is very good for psychological well being


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OfflineWhereDidTheBeesGo
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: michalis]
    #24772939 - 11/10/17 07:52 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not an expert my self and everyone else seems to have answered your question pretty well. From what I understand you're making a perfect growing environment for mycelium however this also makes a perfect growing environment for over bacteria/fungus/whatever else.

In the wild all the mushrooms that grow and open their veil will releases thousands or millions of spores x that by the amount of mushrooms so the odds aren't actually that great but mycelium survives through probability.

Anyway there's loads of info on here and just remember whatever extra steps you can take to keep your environments clean and sterile then take them! It will save you more time then you waste on those steps.


--------------------
The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you.


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Offlinemichalis
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: WhereDidTheBeesGo]
    #24773852 - 11/10/17 04:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WhereDidTheBeesGo said:
I'm not an expert my self and everyone else seems to have answered your question pretty well. From what I understand you're making a perfect growing environment for mycelium however this also makes a perfect growing environment for over bacteria/fungus/whatever else.

In the wild all the mushrooms that grow and open their veil will releases thousands or millions of spores x that by the amount of mushrooms so the odds aren't actually that great but mycelium survives through probability.

Anyway there's loads of info on here and just remember whatever extra steps you can take to keep your environments clean and sterile then take them! It will save you more time then you waste on those steps.





yes that makes sense, if an environment is good for growing fungus it might also promote the growth of bacteria

i'll do my best to keep things sterile but i'm a noob so might not get things right the first time, ordered the kit, dont have any other equipment, the instructions dont really mention any additional equipment, will i need any? or do I just have to be really careful?


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InvisibleBoxer
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: michalis]
    #24774099 - 11/10/17 06:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I will warn you that kits are generally frowned upon here, as they tend to be overly expensive for what they are, and on the pricier end loaded with items that
are unsuitable or unnecessary. What kind of kit is it? grow bag? pre-colonized substrate? pre-sterilized jars? etc. It may be that you need an SAB [Still Air Box]
to do you're sterile work in. Here is a link to a quick and dirty overview of the preferable process I gave in another thread. What do the instructions tell you to do?
Sometimes the recommendations are horribly outdated or outright wrong.


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Offlinemichalis
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: Boxer] * 1
    #24774188 - 11/10/17 07:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Boxer said:
I will warn you that kits are generally frowned upon here, as they tend to be overly expensive for what they are, and on the pricier end loaded with items that
are unsuitable or unnecessary. What kind of kit is it? grow bag? pre-colonized substrate? pre-sterilized jars? etc. It may be that you need an SAB [Still Air Box]
to do you're sterile work in. Here is a link to a quick and dirty overview of the preferable process I gave in another thread. What do the instructions tell you to do?
Sometimes the recommendations are horribly outdated or outright wrong.





this is where i bought from

hasnt arrived yet, description says  it contains

-grow kit colonized with 100% mycelium substrate mazapatec
-grow bag
-zip lock bag

these are the instructions


i would appreciate any feedback you can give, if things go well ill look into doing everything from scratch


Edited by michalis (11/10/17 08:46 PM)


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InvisibleBoxer
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: Boxer]
    #24774212 - 11/10/17 07:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'd remove the links, someone might get huffy about it. From what I can see if we are going to work with what's there, it depends a bit upon whether you plan to
continue with this or not. First off the bat you want gloves [powderless nitrile are my fav, couple of bucks at the supermarket for a small box] as washing your hands
isn't going to cut it. Isopropyl Alcohol to wipe down the gloves would be nice but as long as they're fresh out the box they should be ok. The SAB mentioned before
would be preferable for opening the container, the best non-SAB way would probably be to place it in the bag and then remove the lid [less contact with outside air
the better]. I would also punch a couple of holes in the bag and cover them with breathable medical tape [again should be a couple of dollars at the supermarket].
Other than that the instructions actually aren't that terrible.


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Offlinemichalis
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: Boxer]
    #24774408 - 11/10/17 08:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Boxer said:
I'd remove the links, someone might get huffy about it. From what I can see if we are going to work with what's there, it depends a bit upon whether you plan to
continue with this or not. First off the bat you want gloves [powderless nitrile are my fav, couple of bucks at the supermarket for a small box] as washing your hands
isn't going to cut it. Isopropyl Alcohol to wipe down the gloves would be nice but as long as they're fresh out the box they should be ok. The SAB mentioned before
would be preferable for opening the container, the best non-SAB way would probably be to place it in the bag and then remove the lid [less contact with outside air
the better]. I would also punch a couple of holes in the bag and cover them with breathable medical tape [again should be a couple of dollars at the supermarket].
Other than that the instructions actually aren't that terrible.





oops sorry, is linking frowned upon?

anyhow, thank you for taking the time, you are awesome dude and I appreciate the instructions!

for an sab, i'll check local stores and maybe i get lucky, but i dont think its an option right now, how much difference will it make?


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InvisibleBoxer
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: michalis]
    #24774459 - 11/10/17 09:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It's not so much that it's frowned upon, it's more that the site doesn't like links to vendors that aren't on the official sponsors list. The principle behind it's
operation is exactly as it sounds, stilling the air as much as possible keeps contaminants from floating in the air and landing on your work. It's extremely
important if you plan to continue with the hobby, there is a reasonable chance you can get away with it if done carefully but you are taking a risk. What I would
probably do is place the bag on it's side as you open it, place the container inside and stick it on the bottom, while keeping the top of the bag bent to the side.
Take the lid off the container and then seal the bag up while still bent over, that way you are doing as much as you can to prevent contaminants from landing
on the surface. I would also tilt it to the side as you are spraying, once it's fully consolidated [from the sound of the instructions, probably a couple of days]
it's much less vulnerable to contamination, but initially it may be fairly susceptible.


Edited by Boxer (11/10/17 09:35 PM)


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Offlinemichalis
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: Boxer] * 1
    #24774486 - 11/10/17 09:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Boxer said:
It's not so much that it's frowned upon, it's more that the site doesn't like links to vendors that aren't on the official sponsors list. The principle behind it's contaminants from floating in the air and landing on your work. It's extremely
important if you plan to continue with the hobby, there is a reasonable chance you can get away with it if done carefully but you are taking a risk.
operation is exactly as it sounds, stilling the air as much as possible keepsWhat I would
probably do is place the bag on it's side as you open it, place the container inside and stick it on the bottom, while keeping the top of the bag bent to the side.
Take the lid off the container and then seal the bag up while still bent over, that way you are doing as much as you can to prevent contaminants from landing
on the surface.




ok i'll try to make a still box, a couple of more questions

do i use tap water, or bottled water (tap water is chlorinated here although we do have a filter)

can i keep it in the dark or does it need a bit of sunlight

how do i harvest, do i break the 'stem' of the shroom or do i pull it out of the mycelium

i appreciate the patience boxer, just trying to get it right the first time round


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InvisibleBoxer
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: michalis]
    #24774534 - 11/10/17 09:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Personally I would just use the tap water, it shouldn't be an major issue. Cubes require sunlight as part of their grow cycle, what's generally recommended is a
12/12 cycle of light/dark, a 6500k spectrum light would also suffice if necessary. It's also important to note that you don't want them getting direct sunlight, ie. only the
light in the room, rather than being directly in it. Although air flow is also important [why I mentioned punching holes in the bag] so sticking it away in a cupboard or
something isn't recommended. To harvest you can cut the mushrooms off at the base, some also twist them off, if that's the route you go, be careful not to damage
the surface as that makes the mycelium vulnerable to contamination.


Edited by Boxer (11/10/17 09:50 PM)


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Offlinemichalis
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: Boxer]
    #24774578 - 11/10/17 10:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Boxer said:
Personally I would just use the tap water, it shouldn't be an major issue. Cubes require sunlight as part of their grow cycle, what's generally recommended is a
12/12 cycle of light/dark, a 6500k spectrum light would also suffice if necessary. It's also important to note that you don't want them getting direct sunlight, ie. only the
light in the room, rather than being directly in it. Although air flow is also important [why I mentioned punching holes in the bag] so sticking it away in a cupboard or
something isn't recommended. To harvest you can cut the mushrooms off at the base, some also twist them off, if that's the route you go, be careful not to damage
the surface as that makes the mycelium vulnerable to contamination.




lots of stuff to remember, i'm gonna mess up and not get any shrooms -.-

i'll do my best

many thanks for all the time you took to explain things


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InvisibleBoxer
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Re: first post/new to shrooms/why is sterilization needed [Re: michalis]
    #24774610 - 11/10/17 10:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Failure is just a part of this hobby, the good side of things is that you're failures still have value. Due to you learning various skills, mistakes to watch
out for, contaminant identification etc as you go. I know it's fairly intimidating as you set out, think about what you're doing and chances are fairly good
of a decent outcome. It really isn't that difficult, the bulk of contaminants come from the spawn {print/syringe] which is why agar is pushed so hard. This
assumes you're sterile technique is on point, after a while you could do it in you're sleep. The information isn't to scare you as such, more to prevent
easily avoidable mistakes. Relax, you seem to be clued in enough that I think you'll do fine.

Edit - Do you have a Pressure Cooker available? I ask because it is possible to put the mycelium to agar at very little cost & without damaging the
substrate at all.


Edited by Boxer (11/10/17 11:38 PM)


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