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"Were bigger than Jesus Christ right now..."
-John Lennon(1966)

Basically things that make you feel good (in any way -- drugs, masturbation, etc.) should definitely NOT be allowed, according to most organized religions. That's right, we should all be boring people who don't do anything, I think that would satisfy the people who condemn the good things in life. People do ridiculous things "in the name of religion" -- I believe in God, because really, *someone* had to create everything, but why the hell would people hurt or otherwise endanger themselves because "that's what God wants" ?! There's this one family that lives around here, where the females are *not* allowed to wear pants at all, only skirts or dresses. Now we have subzero temperatures every winter, and the daughter of this family had a paper route and was telling how one time at around 5:00 in the morning on one winter morning, she decided to wear long-johns under a skirt to try to keep warm. Although she was warm, she claimed that she felt *really* guilty for wearing them, so she ended up taking them off for the rest of the paper route (she walked) and she FELT BETTER. Do people HONESTLY believe that the only reason we are on earth is because God wants us to SUFFER ?!

This world is getting WAY too ridiculous and out of *hand*, so put whatever you want in that *hand* and have your way with it!!!

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Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.

Here's my suggestion. Take some trip-time and go into your mind with the intention of figuring out where all of your social inhibitions originated. Then, decide systematically, which inhibitions you wish to keep and which you want to throw away. Tripping is twice as good as a pychoanalyst.
Ish

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I am not a human being having a spiritual experience, I am a spiritual being having a human experience.

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"MY BRAIN HURTS !!!!!!!!!

-Primate

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~~"Oh, welcome to this world of fools, of pink champagne and swimming pools, where all you have to lose is your virginity. Perhaps you'll have some fun tonight, so stick around and take a bite...of life. We don't need feebleness in this proximity"~~

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LSD is good for me

Peace and love,
Little Shroom

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If you can't beat em', arrange to have them beaten..!

If I had ham, I could have ham and eggs, if I had some eggs.

(everybody check the definition of masturbation...it's manual stimulation of genitals, be it yours or someone else's)

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Listen to Captain Jack.
http://www.mp3.com/captainjack99/

Just think about a surprised little gopher running around completely soaked with bull cum. HA HA HA!!!

Answer: When you're out in the middle of a freaking desert, and there ain't no oasis on the horizion.

See, morality has a number of sides to it. And one of those sides encompasses survival. What are often percieved now as arbitrary rules, quite often had a survival basis. They were culturally mandated behavior, because following that type of behavior upped the chances for you, your family, even your entire community. Conversely, going against the grain might be anti-survival...if enough people didn't follow the code, your enire community might suffer. Even go down in flames. And then where were you? Cause throughout human history, just about the worst thing that could happen to anybody was to be without community. And one of the worst punishments possible was to be cast out from your family/group/clan/tribe. Then you had to try making a go of it all by your lonesome self. And that happened, the odds were seriously stacked against you back then.

It's a differnt situation today, true. The vital importance of community for individual survial has been markedly lessened in the last few centuries.

But who's to say that will always be the case? Conditions deteriorate enough, it might be that the tribe will come back to the fore. And if that's the case, survival in the future might very well mandate the acceptance of certain codes of morality.

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"Were bigger than Jesus Christ right now..."
-John Lennon(1966)

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LSD is good for me

If you spank it too many times in a day, say 4 or 5 without lubrication, it really starts to hurt. You can mess your dick up doing that. Not that I've ever experienced this, just heard it from friends...

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Listen to Captain Jack.
http://www.mp3.com/captainjack99/

Peace,
Tao of Earth

Perhaps it's not necessarily a case of "morality" anyways............

I think it's possible to become obsessed with anything, masterbation, thoughts about sex, etc., all included.

So if ya become obsessed with it in a way that puts ya out of balance, then there's probably something wrong about it for you.

The Mushroom takes you beyond the body and into realms of knowledge that are not limited by the material world. Whether you make practical use of that knowledge
(not necessarily intellectual knowledge, obviously) is another thing.

When ya become toooooo identified with the material realm and your body identity, like from toooooo much masterbation, etc., you doooooooo get in the way of nature (at least your higher spiritual nature) from running it's natural evolutionary course to higher states of realization, beyond just this gross realm. That, would be against the power of the *Mushroom*.

Just make sure ya do some wholesome jacking off if ya do............

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Knowledge Is Structured In Consciousness

"Orgasm without ejaculation"

Done it many, many times. Just requires a little self-control, as well as, muscle control......

Whether you masterbate or do the real thing, to orgasm without spilling can be a very, kind of like, uplifting experience. You don't become soooooooo immediately drained. And you're able to go for it again, multiple times, with greater enthusiasm and energy.

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fairies wear boooooooots

I think I will try it riiiiight nowwwww

[This message has been edited by oDin (edited November 24, 1999).]

quote:

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How can anything that is pleasurable without hurting someone else be wrong?

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Simple question. Tough answer. You see, to advocate this position, you must be one-hundred-percent, completely, totally sure that you can accurately judge whether your actions do not hurt someone else.

Does your masturbating hurt someone else? No? You sure?

You see, I chose to be (as Seinfeld would say) the "master of my domain" quite some time ago. One of the reasons I did this was because I perceived that it did hurt someone else.

The sexual act is, by nature, an activity designed for two people (and, sorry, but comparing it to basketball is just plain dumb-ass silly). By masturbating, an act designed for two is "turned inward" on itself, and made to be an act for one. This insulted my relationship with my girlfriend, and it insulted the natural beauty of the sexual act itself. Believe me, I plan to enjoy sex like crazy on our wedding night, and the fact that I have been "master of my domain" will make that gift to her all the more special.

Is masturbation morally wrong? I'll let you decide that -- the bigger question is whether masturbation is inherently selfish, and the answer is obvious.

quote:

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Look at catholics. When they have sex it is a sin to wear a condom. But because they can't masturbate they're having sex ALL THE TIME and that leads to more little catholics running around, not masturbating and fornicating like rabbits (ad. infinum).

---

Wow, you make us Catholics sound almost cool. If we're going to talk about Catholics, let's talk about only those in union with Rome and disregard all the liberal 'progressive' ones for a moment.

Catholics, because they believe that artificial birth control is wrong, practice NFP (Natural Family Planning). This means that for roughly 11 days of the month we aren't getting any sex at all. Kind of a difference between that an "ALL THE TIME" (a line which would have sold me on becoming Catholic, if I weren't already).

And, by the way, let's give the human person a little more credit than suggesting that we must either mastubate, have sex, or die. I know many people who are completely celebate and do neither. It's simply a matter of channeling the energy differently... something I would have guessed you guys knew at least a little about.

Mahatma.

All the humans I know that practice that uptight religious non-sexual MASTERBATION IS EVIL bla bla bla are the most socially inept and cob up the ass people I know. sorry about the mis-spelling I am too pissed to correct it right now. Humans are sexual beings and to supress such a elemental urge is just plain wrong. Its mind contol with all the guilt included. BTW I WAS catholic until I opened my eyes. Just my personal take on life carry on.
Oh yea NFP is a very poor BC method, which is why there are too many catholics.

[This message has been edited by oDin (edited November 26, 1999).]

I don't mind blame; just point that thing in the proper direction, mmmmkay?

Additionally, I am not of the opinion that masturbation is evil -- I merely refer to it rather as an inherently selfish bastardization of a generally pure act.

Perhaps another brave soul here might make a brief mental connection between the mindset that drives masturbation and the mindset that drives certain countries to allow 'less developed' nations to flounder in disease and malnutrition.

"The Masturbation of Global Resources"?

Sounds like a good thread.

Mahatma.

Mahatma, I have to disagree with you. You say that masturbation is selfish. I argue that it's actually the opposite. Think of it this way: humans naturally want to get off like crazy. Sometimes it isn't convenient to fuck your wife/girlfriend. You could go pick up another chick and fuck her. In fact that would be even more fun than spanking it. But you don't. Because you don't want to cheat on your wife/girlfriend, because cheating is selfish (no insult to swinging couples here...if the couple does not recognize fucking other people as cheating, it's different). I wonder what kind of relationship it is if masturbation hurts it. I mean....damn. While sexual acts aren't necessary to survive (in one lifetime, not the species, I mean), the urges are as natural, and for some of us as frequent, as urges to eat. I strongly urge you to communicate with your girlfriend, and figure out why in the hell that put a strain on your relationship. Is she being so selfish that she wants 100% of you? Just some thoughts, please don't take this as an insult.

Also, I have a comment or two on the 'sex is beauty' part. Sex isn't the pure, beautiful thing. It's the intimacy of the situation that is the beautiful part. Sex isn't pure at all. That's the difference between sex with love and intimacy, and just plain sex. In the words of Jane's Addiction, "Sex is violent".

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Listen to Captain Jack.
http://www.mp3.com/captainjack99/

A.) My original response was satire...it was meant to be silly because too often people take the issue of masturbation (which ranks on my personal list of important world issues just above the morality of juggling) too seriously. You assert that sexuality is a sport for two and only two, and is seemingly offensive in any other form. I pose that perhaps this is due to you being you. Put another way, you associate sex with something spritually significant and so to alter the act is to alter the signifigance. If I skip stones on water so that it makes two ripples and then attach personal signifigance to it, of course i'm going to be offended if I see someone out there enjoying themselves as much as I am while skipping stones so they only ripple once. Now to a subjective person, there would be little or no difference between two ripples and one. But to someone whom has attached spiritual signifigance to the ACT (and therefore turned it into ritual), the alteration of the act becomes profane. Now, Mahatma, I'm not asking you to say that there is no spirituality in the sex act, because obviously, to you there is. What I am asking you is to consider that all people see the world differently. If you felt that masturbating dishonored your girlfriend, then IT DID...TO YOU. You have to understand that clause. What is true for you is not true for everyone, that is why masturbation ISN'T immoral unless you want it to be. Seperating truth from dogma is often hard.

Now on your dissertation on population...The reason our population is as large as it is is because population was part of our culture's method of transmission "Grow more food, make more people, take over more land, grow more food..." It is our cultural idea that we must keep doing this at any cost, that has brought us to this point ecologically. Now the basis for this meme is governmental/religious (when our culture was first starting up, there was no seperation).

NOW as for your assertion that if the resources of the world were distributed evenly then our problems would go away...I want to know where you got your ideas, because they're as silly as my basketball analogy. The simple fact is that most of the resources left in the world reside in under developed countries, not in the united states. The united states only CONSUMES the most resources every year. And the reason that it can is because the resources exist in these third-world countries and they can buy them relatively cheap. Now the third world countries then attempt to build an economy on the foundation of their mineral wealth and jump right into the world economy. The problem is that the U.S. eats their resources and then leaves. With the U.S. money gone and the resources gone, the infostructure of the county then collapses and it is back at ground zero. Now I don't see how distributing resources would help. The fact is that our global culture is heirarchal, and that it is not only a heirarchy of individuals, but of countries as well. We have the dominant few very very advanced countries and then, the exploitable, many less developed countries. What is driving our cultural collapse is everyone, all countries, striving for the top of the pyramid. The cultural goal is and always has been to strive to be on top of the pyramid, which equates to all countries trying to live the way Americans live; to consume at the rate which Americans consume. The world cannot support this, look outside and see for yourself. Humans are causing a globalized extinction and degredation of the environment (85% of U.S. cities don't fall within the E.P.A's limits for clean air). The world can support many different creatures viaing for many different niches within the environment. What it cannot do is support ONE creature trying to make ITS WAY the ONLY WAY. Economists make very poor ecologists.

ISH

But this is completely off-topic, or is it? I am inclined to believe that masturbation is perfectly fine for a person if that is what they choose for themselves. I myself do it quite often, but at the same time, I can see Mahatma's point. If you are making it a selfish act, which I do not believe is necessarily the case for all acts of masturbation, then you are only ultimately setting yourself back. If you truly love yourself, however, then I can't see any problem with it. I do get this nagging, just bad feeling sometimes, though, while masturbating, telling me that what I'm doing is wrong. I'm still not sure what that feeling is. Is it society telling me that masturbation is wrong, or is that a true inner voice? Hard to tell. I think I'm finally starting to realize, however, that physical gratification is overrated. I don't know, maybe its just me, but I can get much higher highs after working through a bunch of disgustingly hard math problems. Well, no, I can't say that its better than that, but I guess it'd have to be on the same level as. I don't know, I just say go with what you feel and it'll all work out in the end. It always does.

quote:

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I strongly urge you to communicate with your girlfriend, and figure out why in the hell that put a strain on your relationship. Is she being so selfish that she wants 100% of you? Just some thoughts, please don't take this as an insult.

---

No insult perceived.

I will say, though, that my girlfriend and I have been doing professional counseling for going on two years now, so we tend to communicate quite well without being urged to. My choice to exercise self-control in terms of my sexuality is based on communication, not the lack of it.

That you would assume that my bing "master of my domain" is a strain is probably the most compelling part of your post. I don't recall ever hinting at that, nor would that be at all accurate of our relationship.

As I said in a previous post, choosing not to masturbate is simply a case of redirecting energy. I am not under strain, nor anxiety, nor do I experience any sort of physical discomfort or deformity. I might also mention, by the way that I am (or at least I was) a very highly-sexed individual. I don't say that to be a braggart, only to show that I'm not the type of guy who isn't interested in sex to begin with. In my high school years, I...

Well, that's another thread.

When I was in rural Greece, one of the locals I befriended told me of his views on masturbation. His opinion was that, if not regularly expelled, semen would flood throughout your bloodstream and clot in your brain, making you very stupid. I'm starting to catch the scent of similar attitudes here.

Consider the following:

quote:

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Sometimes it isn't convenient to fuck your wife/girlfriend. You could go pick up another chick and fuck her. But you don't. Because you don't want to cheat on your wife/girlfriend.

---

This view assumes the old Man Must Have Sex, Masturbate Or Die attitude which I mentioned a few posts ago. The simple fact is, a human male can go through his whole life without masturbating... and not explode. None of the Monks I know who have made sexual self-control a lifestyle choice have exploded. You would have read about it in the Enquirer.

Why do I get the feeling I'm going to regret saying that?

Masturbation, like many other things, is a lifestyle choice. Let's not try to kid ourselves into thinking that it's some kind of male biological neccessity. You do not have to masturbate, you choose to.

If you must hold this view, I would respond by telling you that Nature created a safety valve called nocturnal emission. Keeping that fact in mind, masturbation could also be viewed by some as thwarting the natural processes of Nature.

Getting back to my girlfriend. My personal view of love has embedded in it a facet of honour. For me, to choose self-control honours my girlfriend and lets her know that I believe that she is the only other human person I will ever share that particular act with. In those terms, my self-control is merely building a gift to be presented on our wedding night. Simple as that.

(Question: If we consider sex with another person as infidelity, why do we not consider sex with oneself infidelity?)

Additionally (although I did not intend to take a biological direction in this thread) don't you guys know that it's been medically proven that habitual masturbation "trains" your body to ejaculate prematurely?

Mahatma.

I meant a strain on the relationship....I meant that you should communicate as to why you masturbating "insulted [your] relationship with [your] girlfriend", in your words.

I agree with you that it is not necessary to masturbate. But that doesn't mean that it hurts anybody else. You deciding to not masturbate, that's fine. But I think you're going too far to say that it hurts relationships. Maybe, in fact, it wasn't hurting your girlfriend, it was hurting you, because you thought it was like cheating.

My last quote, about not cheating, you took somewhat out of context. That was part of a larger comment saying that masturbation was less selfish than cheating.

I wouldn't have believed you if you said that we (the board at large) could hold an intelligent conversation about masturbation. This is a cool thread.

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Listen to Captain Jack.
http://www.mp3.com/captainjack99/

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Peace
Blue

just try masterbating without ejaculating and get the FUCK on with it

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dam aliens