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Offlinebluemystic
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Registered: 01/01/17
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PC Water Level (Quick Assist please)
    #24750541 - 10/31/17 07:01 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Well, I jumped the gun on one step and am now seeking advice.

My pressure canner is up climbing to 10PSI, and I have about 2 inches of water it in. The manual for this canner says minimum water level is 3 quarts of water. I don't have 3 quarts of water in there. There are only 3 jars sterilizing right now.

Should I stop my Presto 23 quart PC, let cool, add more water, and begin again?

Now approaching 15psi. Think I am going to ride this wave... I didn't hear that noise that BOD had though. Oh boy.. Well, if I fail, you can all hold me accountable. This may bring shame to my family for generations..


Having trouble maintaining 15 PSI, wants to higher. I find myself having to manually release pressure. I feel this is unsafe for the quality of the jar. Temperature is at 200F currently, very low, but I don't have a choice as the pressure is climbing and climbing.

Edited by bluemystic (10/31/17 07:18 PM)

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Invisiblesomegirl
Registered: 08/28/17
Posts: 197
Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bluemystic]
    #24750604 - 10/31/17 07:29 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Turn the temperature down!  Don't try to manually keep the pressure at 15.  2" of water in that PC is more than 3qts.  For future reference, there is a line inside the pot at the spot 3 qts goes to.

Play with your temperature until it stabilizes.  It's usually about 4.5 on my stove dial, but yours will vary.  Just restart your time if it drops much below 15 PSI while you do this.  Make note of what works for your stove, and tun the dial back to that next time as soon, or just before it reaches 15PSI.

Sounds like you haven't used a PC before this.  I'd suggest a couple of runs with no jars in the pot, and with no added wieghts to the rocker to get a feel for it before you have to do it for real again.

The pot is tested to withstand much more pressure than 15 PSI, it isn't going to explode on you unless you disable the ability of the rocker to move at all, and also somehow made it so the overpresure relief mechanism couldn't blow if needed,

Edited after pasting immediate advise.

Edited by somegirl (10/31/17 07:37 PM)

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bluemystic]
    #24750612 - 10/31/17 07:33 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

If in doubt.. stop

Quote:

somegirl said:
Turn the temperature down!  Don't try to manually keep the pressure at 15.  2" of water in that PC is more than 3qts.  For future reference, there is a line inside the pot at the spot 3 qts goes to.



No line in my 23q presto

How else do you keep it at 15 if not manually? I mean the weight does regulate it. But you don't want it going crazy.

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Invisiblesomegirl
Registered: 08/28/17
Posts: 197
Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24750636 - 10/31/17 07:42 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
If in doubt.. stop

Quote:

somegirl said:
Turn the temperature down!  Don't try to manually keep the pressure at 15.  2" of water in that PC is more than 3qts.  For future reference, there is a line inside the pot at the spot 3 qts goes to.



No line in my 23q presto

How else do you keep it at 15 if not manually? I mean the weight does regulate it. But you don't want it going crazy.




Odd, mine does. 23 qt presto.  My 16 qt does too I think.  Doesn't say anything in the manual about it though.

I don't manually vent it.  I turn the temperature down, and if I don't turn it down far enough the rocker rocks more vigorously, releasing pressure.  The pots are tested to much higher pressures than we would reach doing this, 60 PSI or something, so I don't worry if it takes a bit to come back to 15.  The only issue is it makes a racket while doing this.

Edit:  manual does show the line.  Maybe it didn't used to have it?

Edited by somegirl (10/31/17 07:49 PM)

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24750640 - 10/31/17 07:43 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, stop and let it cool. Never let pressure out like that, control pressure with your heat source. You'll crack your jars like that.

Trust the rocker more than the gauge. By design, it's not gonna let you get to dangerous pressures.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Offlinebluemystic
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #24750655 - 10/31/17 07:48 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I do have the lines in mine. I was going off of research here, plus I miscalculted and ended up with few jars.

I think I'm good now. All advice noted. First time using a PC. Temperature is at 220F, boiling, and pressure is at 15/16.

For future reference, what temperature do you tend to heat up at? I was at 800F. Think next time I'll heat up around 600, then lower to 260F.


Also if 2 on a stove doesn't mean 200F, then I am a lost cause.

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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: somegirl]
    #24750657 - 10/31/17 07:49 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)


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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bluemystic]
    #24750662 - 10/31/17 07:50 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bluemystic said:
.


Also if 2 on a stove doesn't mean 200F, then I am a lost cause.



Those numbers mean absolutely nothing. From stove to stove the numbers don't translate. Consider it low medium and high

2 doesn't mean 200F lol.

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Offlinebluemystic
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24750747 - 10/31/17 08:22 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I feel foolish. Well, I'll know better for next time.

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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bluemystic]
    #24751004 - 10/31/17 09:59 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

My stove is at 2, once I hit around 17psi. Couple quarters taped as the rocker seems to only hit 13psi or so without.

Once you know the dial sweetspot where temp/pressure equalize you are golden for all future runs.

Venting prior to putting on the rocker is important.  My presto 23q doesn't have a line. I do 3-4" and it's about at half afterwards

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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24751013 - 10/31/17 10:03 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
2 doesn't mean 200F lol.





this one goes up to eleven.

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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: mushboy]
    #24751024 - 10/31/17 10:09 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Oh, and keep the stove cranked until ~12psi then figure out what setting stops it from increasing.

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Snazz]
    #24752376 - 11/01/17 02:20 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I crank mine all the way until I get to pressure, then back down. There's no need to back down sooner, that just wastes time.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #24752476 - 11/01/17 03:02 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

My new stove is glass. So it retains lots of heat. Otherwise, certainly!

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Offlineffmurray
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Snazz]
    #24752507 - 11/01/17 03:14 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

watch out for glass stoves, they can cause some problems with pressure canners, and PCs can cause some issues with glass stoves

blog post from a canning site talking about it

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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: ffmurray]
    #24752519 - 11/01/17 03:20 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I love my glass stove:shrug:


--------------------

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: tombosley8] * 1
    #24752686 - 11/01/17 04:44 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Glass stoves (induction stoves, for the actual term that you'll see in cookbooks) have the downside of holding heat for far longer than gas (instant heat on/off) and electric (fairly quick heat on/off) stoves. This makes dialing in your PC a little harder, and I usually take the PC off the stove when at the end of the cycle to cool off-site instead of waiting for the stove and PC to cool together.

Basically, an induction stove will take longer to heat and longer to cool, so you'll have to account for that when you're doing your cycles. When I use an induction stove, I'd crank it all the way up, and drop it down to 1/4th or half heat when it passes 12 psi, then it stabilizes around 15 by the time the stove reaches the new temperature. I got these numbers from dialing it in with trial and error, you'll have to do the same. I also worry a little less about having the PC on there for a full 90 minute cycle, so if I can't be there for the end of the cycle I'll turn off the heat no more than 10 minutes early and leave the PC to cool on the burner, which will usually keep it at pressure for the full 90.

As far as the water level and lines, I don't worry about them as much anymore. I used to follow the 3 qt rule religiously, but now I just make sure that there is always a boiling noise coming from the PC. If it's making a boiling noise, it isn't dry. If it's not making a boiling noise, feel free to panic, turn off the heat, and write off whatever is in there. In any order.

I've run my 23qt presto with maybe a quart of water in it only, successfully. I wouldn't push your luck though, I just forgot to top it off between cycles.

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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Kryptos]
    #24752754 - 11/01/17 05:22 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Most glass stoves are conductive not induction. Induction cooktops require special pans.

My mother has a glass stove thats not a induction stove.

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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24752964 - 11/01/17 07:04 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Yep. Aluminum pressure cooker will not work with induction

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24753168 - 11/01/17 08:41 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Most glass stoves are conductive not induction. Induction cooktops require special pans.

My mother has a glass stove thats not a induction stove.




This. My mom has one too. Inductions ranges don't require special pans though. Just regular stainless. The rule is if a magnet will stick then it'll work

Most cheap non-stick pans (and 99% of the PCs that are gonna be suitable for our purposes) are aluminum which won't work. But any steel pans work, and if you're buying copper or iron pans you probably aren't wanting an induction cooktop.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #24753224 - 11/01/17 09:14 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Stainless should be non magnetic. It can be magnetic in some cases. But a quick test to see if something is stainless is to see if a magnet doesn't stick indicating it's stainless. Any magnetic pan works on induction cooktops. Some stainless pans have a magnetic layer to work with inductive cooktops

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Offlinebluemystic
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24763609 - 11/06/17 10:43 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I'd like to clarify here.

Should I be heating up to 10psi on high, then move down to 2, where it climes to a perfect 16psi (in my case)?

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InvisibleZeparthian
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bluemystic]
    #24763773 - 11/06/17 12:20 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bluemystic said:
I'd like to clarify here.

Should I be heating up to 10psi on high, then move down to 2, where it climes to a perfect 16psi (in my case)?




You're over thinking it really.

All you need to do is get it up to 15 PSI (and how you do that shouldn't really matter).

Here is my process on my gas stove (gas is always hotter too):

1: Fill up with a few quarts of water (3 is sufficient)

2: After placing the pressure cooker on the stove, I turn that dial up to MAX (in my case max is number 11)

3:  After about 20 minutes I hear my rocker going crazy, and I see the pressure gauge sitting at 15 PSI so I turn down the stove to around 4 and this keeps the pressure at 15 PSI and no lower.

4:  Watch the gauge and make sure it doesn't go lower than 15 PSI, if it does increase stove dial by 1.

5:  Listen to the rocker.  If your rocker weight is going crazy, you probably have the stove to high.  It should rock yes, but the rocker should not be having a seizure.

Also if your pressure cooker IS exceeding 15 PSI, realize that it should not. 
Usually this can mean 1 or 2 things:

1: Your rocker weight is damaged and needs a replacement.

2: Your nipple is damaged were the rocker sits on and you need a new pressure cooker if thats not easily interchangeable.

3:  Your gauge is recording improper readings and needs to be replaced.

Good luck!

-Zep


--------------------
Having troubles?  RR's here to help!

Let's Grow Mushrooms - RR

Watch, absorb, and put that information to use!


With a little help, miracles do happen


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InvisibleSnazz
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Zeparthian]
    #24763839 - 11/06/17 12:50 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

So you aren't venting?  I keep my rocker off for 15-20 mins after boiling point, then pressurize

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Zeparthian]
    #24763848 - 11/06/17 12:54 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zeparthian said:
Quote:

bluemystic said:
I'd like to clarify here.

Should I be heating up to 10psi on high, then move down to 2, where it climes to a perfect 16psi (in my case)?




You're over thinking it really.

All you need to do is get it up to 15 PSI (and how you do that shouldn't really matter).

Here is my process on my gas stove (gas is always hotter too):

1: Fill up with a few quarts of water (3 is sufficient)

2: After placing the pressure cooker on the stove, I turn that dial up to MAX (in my case max is number 11)

3:  After about 20 minutes I hear my rocker going crazy, and I see the pressure gauge sitting at 15 PSI so I turn down the stove to around 4 and this keeps the pressure at 15 PSI and no lower.

4:  Watch the gauge and make sure it doesn't go lower than 15 PSI, if it does increase stove dial by 1.

5:  Listen to the rocker.  If your rocker weight is going crazy, you probably have the stove to high.  It should rock yes, but the rocker should not be having a seizure.

Also if your pressure cooker IS exceeding 15 PSI, realize that it should not. 
Usually this can mean 1 or 2 things:

1: Your rocker weight is damaged and needs a replacement.

2: Your nipple is damaged were the rocker sits on and you need a new pressure cooker if thats not easily interchangeable.

3:  Your gauge is recording improper readings and needs to be replaced.

Good luck!

-Zep



You need to vent. Read the PC's manual and my pressure cooker tek

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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24763853 - 11/06/17 12:57 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:

your PC is probably the one thing you should overthink. its a bomb on the stove if not used safely.

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InvisibleZeparthian
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Snazz]
    #24764023 - 11/06/17 02:12 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Snazz said:
So you aren't venting?  I keep my rocker off for 15-20 mins after boiling point, then pressurize




Whoops sorry Nazis, forgot to mention vent for 10 minutes before adding your rocker.
Even though it is not required.

For years I didn't do this and had no issues with rye prep or vegetable canning.  Most times I still don't do it :crazy2: 

My family harvests football field size gardens every year (two of them) and we pressure can all year long.
And yes most of the time we do not let it vent for any amount of time before canning.  Guess what?  It doesn't make a a significant difference because we still have canned food 3+ years old. 

Ya'll over think the canning process.

Here is another opinion:
"Pressure canning requires venting to ensure there is no air left inside the canner. The way temperature/pressure works they can only guarantee the canner will be at the correct temperature if all the pressure inside is due to water vapour. Venting means that the steam has pushed all the air out. This step is NOT necessary for pressure cooking as recipes have been developed without that step."

Like I said been doing rye prep for 5+ years, and I barley ever vent.
Suppose that's just me.

-Zep


--------------------
Having troubles?  RR's here to help!

Let's Grow Mushrooms - RR

Watch, absorb, and put that information to use!


With a little help, miracles do happen


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Offlinebluemystic
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Registered: 01/01/17
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24764032 - 11/06/17 02:17 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

You need to vent. Read the PC's manual and my pressure cooker tek



You're guide is flawless I will refer back to it. I'm just worried I made too many mistakes.

I've had 3 jars incubating since Wednesday. Incubator (anno style) is at 82F. Humidity is at 52F.
Is low humidity a concern in the incubator?

After pressure cooking, there was moisture inside the jars at the top. I wasn't using heavy-duty aluminum foil. 100% rye jars, polyfill in the lids.  Due to this incident I went easy on the inoculation to keep additional moisture low.

These 3 jars show no signs up mycelium - but I don't mind waiting.

__

I sterilized 5 more jars yesterday, no moisture in the tops, everything went smooth. When inoculating 5 jars, I used half only of a syringe. There are Quart jars. I threw the other half of the syringe away, thinking that it shouldn't be saved and used. I say plenty, plenty of solution slide down the sides of the jar. Would you (anyone reading) have used the whole syringe?

The syringe was stored in the refrigerator, I did not let it get to room temperature before using.
The first 3 jars however, I did let sit at room temperature for 24 hours prior to inoculation.
Any advice on best practice here?

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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Zeparthian]
    #24764057 - 11/06/17 02:26 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zeparthian said:
Quote:

Snazz said:
So you aren't venting?  I keep my rocker off for 15-20 mins after boiling point, then pressurize




Whoops sorry Nazis, forgot to mention vent for 10 minutes before adding your rocker.
Even though it is not required.

For years I didn't do this and had no issues with rye prep or vegetable canning.  Most times I still don't do it :crazy2: 

My family harvests football field size gardens every year (two of them) and we pressure can all year long.
And yes most of the time we do not let it vent for any amount of time before canning.  Guess what?  It doesn't make a a significant difference because we still have canned food 3+ years old. 

Ya'll over think the canning process.

Here is another opinion:
"Pressure canning requires venting to ensure there is no air left inside the canner. The way temperature/pressure works they can only guarantee the canner will be at the correct temperature if all the pressure inside is due to water vapour. Venting means that the steam has pushed all the air out. This step is NOT necessary for pressure cooking as recipes have been developed without that step."

Like I said been doing rye prep for 5+ years, and I barley ever vent.
Suppose that's just me.

-Zep



Right...
When you post some guides and show us some football fields then you can tell us all about not operating a pressure cooker correctly. Seems like you're just being ultra defensive because you were wrong about something trivial.

There's well established reasons for venting

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InvisibleZeparthian
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24764067 - 11/06/17 02:31 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
:whathesaid:

your PC is probably the one thing you should overthink. its a bomb on the stove if not used safely.



Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

Zeparthian said:
Quote:

Snazz said:
So you aren't venting?  I keep my rocker off for 15-20 mins after boiling point, then pressurize




Whoops sorry Nazis, forgot to mention vent for 10 minutes before adding your rocker.
Even though it is not required.

For years I didn't do this and had no issues with rye prep or vegetable canning.  Most times I still don't do it :crazy2: 

My family harvests football field size gardens every year (two of them) and we pressure can all year long.
And yes most of the time we do not let it vent for any amount of time before canning.  Guess what?  It doesn't make a a significant difference because we still have canned food 3+ years old. 

Ya'll over think the canning process.

Here is another opinion:
"Pressure canning requires venting to ensure there is no air left inside the canner. The way temperature/pressure works they can only guarantee the canner will be at the correct temperature if all the pressure inside is due to water vapour. Venting means that the steam has pushed all the air out. This step is NOT necessary for pressure cooking as recipes have been developed without that step."

Like I said been doing rye prep for 5+ years, and I barley ever vent.
Suppose that's just me.

-Zep



Right...
When you post some guides and show us some football fields then you can tell us all about not operating a pressure cooker correctly. Seems like you're just being ultra defensive because you were wrong about something trivial.

There's well established reasons for venting



lol not defensive at all man.

Those football fields are vegetables by the way.
If you would like pictures of this years harvest i'd be happy to dig out the veggies and take a picture for you.

Like I said its just unnecessary  step, that I've never done with pressure cooking my veggies and others have no issue with NOT doing it as well.

Here is another opinion in case your man eyes missed:
"Pressure canning requires venting to ensure there is no air left inside the canner. The way temperature/pressure works they can only guarantee the canner will be at the correct temperature if all the pressure inside is due to water vapour. Venting means that the steam has pushed all the air out. This step is NOT necessary for pressure cooking as recipes have been developed without that step."

You see it saying not necessary?
nah prob not xD

Im not saying my ways are superior, so don't get your panties in a bunch.
All I am saying is with my countless hours canning version, and our gardens, we have never had an issue.  I would guarantee we do more canning than you lol.  Thats how our family lives, we don't buy shit from the store.

-Zep


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Edited by Zeparthian (11/06/17 02:34 PM)

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Zeparthian]
    #24764072 - 11/06/17 02:32 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

We're not canning veggies in vinegar water with a PH below 5 so yea moot point dude.

We're also not filling our jars to the fill line with liquid

We're also not using the jar lids appropriately

We're not using recipes developed for food let alone skipping venting.

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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24764084 - 11/06/17 02:37 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Cooking foods like veggies for canning only needs to hit 240F to kill clostridium. So some air entrapment is fine for foods.

Acidic foods inhibit this so tomato's actually can be steam sterilized without pressure. Because even if clostridium endospores survive they won't be able to germinate.


Grains are completely different.

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InvisibleZeparthian
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24764103 - 11/06/17 02:45 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
We're not canning veggies in vinegar water with a PH below 5 so yea moot point dude.

We're also not filling our jars to the fill line with liquid

We're also not using the jar lids appropriately

We're not using recipes developed for food let alone skipping venting.




LOL not sure if you understand canning completely man.
Depending on the recipe you don't use vinegar, even if the PH is not acidic.

Do you ever see a recipe that says "skip venting" when canning?  No.

A lot of recipes were developed around not venting, rye prep could be one of those.

Must be maggiiicccc since I don't have rye grain prep problems for 5+ years... Or it really just doesn't matter.
If I have done it this way for 5+ years I really don't see why you have such a problem lol. It's like you don't believe me :thumbdown:

Smoke one, chill out.

-Zep


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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Zeparthian]
    #24764133 - 11/06/17 02:54 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Recipes without vinegar are already acid foods or ones without fear of poison causing microbes anyway. Like jellies which can be sterilized without pressure anyway.

Spawn prep for mushrooms is wrote with venting in mind. Because we actually need to hit 15psi and air entrapment prevents that.

You can not vent and have human food last years.

You can pressure cook grains 2 hours and skip venting and have them go bad.

Apples and oranges.

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OfflineMarmie
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24764161 - 11/06/17 03:04 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

The pc needs to go up to a certian temp, if theres air in ur pc it stops this from happening, thus we vent , i dont understand why thats so difficult to understand.  If you wana do bad practise go ahead but dont tell other people its not necessary :shrug:.

And bluemystic you should take your jars out of the incubator, itll just cause more problems especialy at temps of 82 ,  room temp is just fine 69-72


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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24764191 - 11/06/17 03:12 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Recipes without vinegar are already acid foods or ones without fear of poison causing microbes anyway. Like jellies which can be sterilized without pressure anyway.

Spawn prep for mushrooms is wrote with venting in mind. Because we actually need to hit 15psi and air entrapment prevents that.

You can not vent and have human food last years.

You can pressure cook grains 2 hours and skip venting and have them go bad.

Apples and oranges.




I still don't vent without issues.  Sure I've tried it but I haven't seen a reason to stick with it.
You say "it'll go bad"  but my rye grain preparation has never gone bad with a single 90 minutes PC and yes there was no venting.

You don't have to believe me, but all my grows Ive posted have never had a vented PC before PCing. 

In Rodger Rabbits videos he does mention 5-10 minute venting before adding the rocker, I get that, all I am saying is I don't have ANY jars go bad unless I G2G in a dirty environment.
So I don't vent, and I will never vent lol.

Also the air entrapment doesn't stop you from hitting 15 PSI, it still does this.  All that happens is the temperature is lower than the indicated pressure, "kinda" making an inaccurate reading on the temp side.  Try it out, you should still hit 15 PSI. It deals with a scientific principle called "partial pressure".


-Zep


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InvisibleZeparthian
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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Marmie]
    #24764205 - 11/06/17 03:17 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Marmie said:
The pc needs to go up to a certian temp, if theres air in ur pc it stops this from happening, thus we vent , i dont understand why thats so difficult to understand.  If you wana do bad practise go ahead but dont tell other people its not necessary :shrug:.

And bluemystic you should take your jars out of the incubator, itll just cause more problems especialy at temps of 82 ,  room temp is just fine 69-72




I do understand why people do this, partial pressure is a bitch.
I was just saying in my experience it hasn't been necessary.

I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp haha

I wouldn't be saying this if it wasn't true from my experience.

-Zep


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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Zeparthian]
    #24764227 - 11/06/17 03:25 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Partial pressure is the reason why the steam doesn't hit 15 psi. Entrapment of air DOES prevent you hitting 15psi. You'll hit 15 psi on the gauge but only part of that 15 is steam.

Im glad it works for you, but this website isn't based on bad advise. I can drive without a seatbelt just fine too :shrug: lots of half assed shit works.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:

Starting Up the Cycle: Venting

I usually will use very hot tap water or near boiling water to fill the pressure cooker.

Once the lid is on MAKE SURE the weight is OFF. Turn the heat to high

Once it starts to boil you'll see steam coming out of the top of the lid. After a minute or two the safety plug and the locking mechanism will pop up, at this time you will not be able to remove the lid unless you kill the heat and let the safety valve drop back down.

Once steam comes out of the top set a timer for 10 minutes. NO LESS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_pressure
You don't want to pressurize AIR you want to pressurize water vapor/steam

if you do not properly vent there will be air trapped in your jars still and in the void space in the cooker. Your gauge will eventually read 15psi but if you know anything about partial pressure you will not actually be at 15psi of steam pressure but X psi of steam and Y psi of air where X+Y=15. This means you're sterilizing at a lower temperature than expected. In a static volume each gas in a mixture exerts the pressure it would as if it were the only gas in that volume. All of these partial pressures add up to the total pressure you see on the gauge. This is Dalton's law of partial pressure.





as you can see from the graphs at 1bar or 15psig 100% steam is 121C or 250F

Say you still have 10% air left from improper venting. If your gauge reads 15psi you're actually at ~116.5C or ~242F. Not only that but it actually makes the steam transfer heat less effectively so it's a compounded problem

if you can imagine the jars are filled with air(let alone the volume of the PC), this needs a good 10 minutes to escape. As the heat increases in the cooker, the grains will start to evaporate/boil their moisture and push the air out through the filters/lids of your jars. The whole volume of void space in jars and in your PC needs to be filled with water vapor/steam. Since there's no way to test this we vent at least 10 minutes.

Starting Up the Cycle: Pressurizing


once you've vented for 10 minutes you may notice that you're at a few PSI on the gauge. That's no problem.




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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Zeparthian]
    #24764305 - 11/06/17 03:54 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Nice charts Bod.

I agree that the STEAM doesn't hit 15 PSI, but your PC will still hit 15 PSI through the combinations of other gases.  So the entrapment of air, still allows the PC to reach 15 PSI, just not the steam.
I never said anything to disprove this. 
I will repeat:
Quote:

Zeparthian said:
Also the air entrapment doesn't stop you from hitting 15 PSI, it still does this.  All that happens is the temperature is lower than the indicated pressure, "kinda" making an inaccurate reading on the temp side.  Try it out, you should still hit 15 PSI. It deals with a scientific principle called "partial pressure".






The risks associated with not wearing a seatbelt and rye prep by not venting are different BTW lol.  I agree though I'm glad my rye prep works :thumbup:

-Zep


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Having troubles?  RR's here to help!

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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: Zeparthian]
    #24764907 - 11/06/17 07:59 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

The steam is what sterilizes, so it needs to be at 15 PSI, making venting important. It also makes it easier to stabilize temps, especially using something that doesn't respond like a gas stove.

You're thinking too much about canning. We're not canning, we're using this as a makeshift autoclave. Canning isn't sterilization.

Scale way up and you'll see the difference when you get a dirty batch of grain. Really look at those charts and remember that we're taking about a different process. Also keep in mind that we give info that works for 100% of people 100% of the time when done correctly, no matter the conditions.


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bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Re: PC Water Level (Quick Assist please) [Re: 36fuckin5] * 1
    #24766092 - 11/07/17 10:13 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Ya, it's more about the heat exchange values.  Air plain sucks. Dry grains will cause the same issues.

It also has to exchange into the jars and through the grain. Fully hydrated grain helps this transfer rate.

q=mc∆t

So we know that the max temp is relative to the actual pressure the water vapour is. That formula above basically states the relationship with time and the coefficient for the material.

PC cycle duration increases drastically to get the same amount of Joules transferred between the mediums

Edited by Snazz (11/07/17 10:24 AM)

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