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OfflineHaywood Jablome
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #24699770 - 10/10/17 03:12 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome! I will look into doing that asap. As for the micro it will be quite awhile before id be able to take a look, if someone with a good scope wants to check it out let me know.
Thanks for the link and info Alan!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Haywood Jablome]
    #24700244 - 10/10/17 06:20 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Haywood Jablome said:
Awesome! I will look into doing that asap. As for the micro it will be quite awhile before id be able to take a look, if someone with a good scope wants to check it out let me know.
Thanks for the link and info Alan!





Once you get an ITS sequence from Alvalab, lots of people will want to do microscopy on your Pluteus.  Until then it is kind of a waste of time.


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OfflineHaywood Jablome
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Haywood Jablome]
    #24714987 - 10/16/17 06:36 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Figured I would update on this thread for anyone whos interested. The mushroom in the OP is a pluteus in sect. celluloderma, going from there I used this key http://openjournals.wsu.edu/index.php/pnwfungi/article/view/1053
This keyed out to P. cyanopus. I noticed the habitat is described as the roots and humus/debris at the base of large deciduous trees including Quercus (oak). Oak is abundant in my area so I poked around the base of some big oak's on my hike today and there they were, just as described! Pics soon.

:offthehook:


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OfflineHaywood Jablome
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Haywood Jablome]
    #24715091 - 10/16/17 07:16 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I found 2 small fruits, one a piece at the bottom of 2 different oaks  that are right beside each other. Another huge oak fell in between these 2 trees a few years ago so the area is covered in well decayed wood debris.


Look just to the left of the twin acorns










There are alot more pics but these are some of the better ones.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Haywood Jablome]
    #24715133 - 10/16/17 07:29 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

As far as I know, Pluteus cyanopus has not been recorded in North America.

Have you ruled out Pluteus saupei?

Are you planning on some DNA work?


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OfflineHaywood Jablome
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #24715185 - 10/16/17 07:46 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

The paper describes a collection from Minnesota, but also says it was reported from a few other states by someone I forget the name of although if I remember correctly it goes on to say they hadnt confirmed those finds themselves.

Im guessing P. saupei is in sect. Pluteus, which seems to rule it out.

Ive contacted alva and im planning to get them sequenced as soon as I have the money to do so. Do you think I should send this collection instead of the one in op since its from the described habitat?

Edit: A basic analysis (1 DNA marker) is this all I need?


Edited by Haywood Jablome (10/16/17 07:53 PM)


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Haywood Jablome]
    #24715630 - 10/16/17 11:25 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Haywood Jablome said:
The paper describes a collection from Minnesota, but also says it was reported from a few other states by someone I forget the name of although if I remember correctly it goes on to say they hadnt confirmed those finds themselves.




Which paper?



Quote:

Im guessing P. saupei is in sect. Pluteus, which seems to rule it out.





It is correct that it is in sect. Pluteus.  It can be hard to tell the Pluteus sections apart without microscopy however.

Quote:

Ive contacted alva and im planning to get them sequenced as soon as I have the money to do so.





I think you could have them sequenced now, and then pay the invoice when you have money.

Quote:

Do you think I should send this collection instead of the one in op since its from the described habitat?





Ideally both I guess...


Quote:

Edit: A basic analysis (1 DNA marker) is this all I need?




The most useful gene for this is ITS, and I think that will be all you need.  If it turns out to be a new species and you want to name it, it would be worthwhile to do another marker too, like LSU.  I always do ITS first and then based on the results I get back decide whether I want to do more.


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OfflineHaywood Jablome
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #24716166 - 10/17/17 09:14 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

The paper im referring to http://openjournals.wsu.edu/index.php/pnwfungi/article/view/1053
The part about P. cyanopus is on page 31.

I was thinking this was something in sect. celluloderma based on the comment else made on MO, and it seems to be a valid point. All 3 fruits had a wrinkled/veined cap and didnt seem to have any fibers or scales like I see on something like cervinus, but like you said this is all just guess work on my part until I get sequences.

It was suggested on MO that these are something in the Pluteus albostipitatus group. Hopefully the sequence results will clear this up.


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? (P. cyanopus or something similar) [Re: Haywood Jablome]
    #24716887 - 10/17/17 01:49 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Haywood Jablome said:
While looking through some of my recent finds this one caught my eye, I originally thought this was a Entoloma but im wondering if maybe this is a Pluteus? It was found in a grassy area and I assumed it was growing terrestrially, but there is a fire pit nearby so theres plenty of wood debris scattered around from carried firewood and im sure theres buried debris too. I checked the gill attachment and it has that pluteus looking attachment I see in all the other pluteus ive found.




Any thoughts?




cool collection, cool thread.  that's the faint steel blue staining at the base of the stipe that i see in my VA collections of this species (complex?).  will be interested to see the follow up.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Haywood Jablome]
    #24718158 - 10/17/17 09:18 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Haywood Jablome said:
The paper im referring to http://openjournals.wsu.edu/index.php/pnwfungi/article/view/1053
The part about P. cyanopus is on page 31.





The P. cyanopus information in that paper is based just on microscopy.    The sequences from Europe may be different, or maybe not....would be interesting to see.


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OfflineHaywood Jablome
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Haywood Jablome]
    #24719584 - 10/18/17 02:21 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Looked agin today and only found a small abort, the last 2 nights got pretty cold and it seems to have slowed alot of things down around here.

@relic Thanks man! Speaking of that greyish blue color I saw the exact same color on a mushroom similar to P. cervinus a few days ago but I dont think it was active, im guessing its one of the other similar cervinus sp. because it seemed different than other cervinus I find. The smell was far from raphanoid and im not sure what to compare it to but it was not pleasant. The cap had really dark black fibers and had an odd color, also the margin was inrolled and it seemed lumpy towards the margin. The  greyish blue color was on the inner cap flesh that was exposed from what looked like a squirrel nibbling on it under where I assume the disc was. Im guessing it had something to do with the flesh right under the disc being alot darker, the stem had no blue only a grey with perhaps a greenish hue under bright light but thats debatable.

@Alan they probably are, bloodworms proposal on MO seems promising. I read a paper from brazil that said some collections of albostipitatus fell into sect. Pluteus while others fell into sect. hispidoderma on the phylogenetic tree they made. Cant remember exactly, it was all abit over my head anyway. The caps of alot of sect. Hispidoderma sp. Look similar (slightly velvety at times with wrinkles/veins) to these.


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OfflineHaywood Jablome
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Haywood Jablome]
    #24735291 - 10/24/17 09:47 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Found a really cool pair of Siamese twins at the same general spot as the one in the OP. It looks alot like something in the Pluteus thomsonii (group). The basal mycelium was a very obvious blue grey but i dont think thomsonii is active? Im not sure if they are the same as the ones I found under oak but I wouldnt be surprised, either way I intend to do what I can to find out.



Pretty wierd, ive also been seeing some suspect looking conocybe sp. With similar ambiguous bluish colors but I doubt they are active either. Could it be some type of blueish mold? Something to do with the soil? Or is this just normal for some non active sp. It seems the line between active blueing and staining on non actives can be seriously close and i apparently cant tell the difference.  What do you guys think?

Found growing from soil in a dense clover patch





Found this one in rich soil and sparse grass, I thought it was a C. apala but its off in a few ways, mostly the stem. It looks blue to me and seems abit more sturdy and maybe alittle pruinose? Ive never seen any of the white capped conocybes(what ive been calling apala group)have a stem that changed color at all?



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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Haywood Jablome]
    #24740982 - 10/27/17 10:32 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

The first is probably Pouzarella but Entoloma and Tricholoma are also possible.

The second is interesting, looks like it might be bluing.  Where did you find it, and did you save it?


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OfflineHaywood Jablome
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Re: Bruising pluteus or entoloma? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #24741916 - 10/27/17 06:22 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I did a cross section on the first one and the gills appeared free and dried to pinkish, it also showed similar features to the first two collections.

The last set of pictures im thinking are conocybe siliginea.

Now about the middle set of pics, I found them in a dense clover patch where some grass got killed off awhile back. Ive had my suspicions about them being an active pholiotina but, they lacked the crazy blue tones ive seen in other finds. Although hot dry weather at the time might be to blame for that.



I found another one today in a different spot, in grass next to a washed out mulch bed. This fruit bruised a more typical color, probably because the weather has been wet and chilly lately. Ive been hesitant to make a separate thread on them because im still not sure and im not trying to be that guy who thinks every other thing he finds is active. Heres 2 out of 70ish pictures, if they look promising enough I will make a separate thread with more details.



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