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Offlinephi1618
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Registered: 02/14/04
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Motivation for the war in Iraq
    #2472646 - 03/25/04 12:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The Bush administration wanted to fight a war in Iraq, and was looking for any excuse to do so. Terrorism, WMDs, imminent threat, violation of cease-fire - none of these are WHY we ended up in this war.

Joeseph Wilson:
"Based on my experience with the administration in the months leading up to the war, I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat."
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm

Paul O'Neil:
"From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go"
http://www.forbes.com/home_europe/newswire/2004/01/10/rtr1205827.html

Richard Clarke:
" What happened was the president, with his finger in my face, saying, "Iraq, a memo on Iraq and al-Qaida, a memo on Iraq and the attacks." Very vigorous, very intimidating, and in a way that left all of us with the same impression, that he wanted that answer. Well, we couldn't give him that answer because it wasn't true."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/jan-june04/clarke_03-22.html


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Offlinevalour
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: phi1618]
    #2472736 - 03/25/04 01:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: valour]
    #2472804 - 03/25/04 01:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

eh? What's that pic supposed to mean?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2472824 - 03/25/04 01:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yellowcake uranium?


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2472836 - 03/25/04 01:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

In Bush's Jan 2003 State of the Union address, he cited British inteligence reports that Iraq had tried to buy yellow-cake uranium in Africa (Niger).
Joeseph Wilson is a long-time foreign service officer and ambasador who had previously been sent to Niger to investigate these claims. He, and other inteligence and foreign service people, concluded that there was no link in Niger to Iraq's suspected weapons programs.
Bush failed to mention in his State of the Union that US government emplyees had failed to find any evidence of Iraq trying to buy uranium in Niger, and had in fact concluded that it didn't happen, instead citing British intelligence.
Joeseph Wilson thought this was dishonest and complained to the press.

Thus, yellow cake.


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Registered: 11/03/03
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: phi1618]
    #2472997 - 03/25/04 03:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The war in Iraq baffles me... truly baffles me. For some reason, the Bush Administration and every single corporate mainstream media outlet ignored every piece of evidence that suggested Iraq posed no threat to Western security. Why did they do this? If you ask me, they didn't have to. Saddam was a terrible dictator that created a living hell for most of his countrymen. Bush wanted him out for bases in the Middle East, Oil and to open up foreign markets (basically to help secure American dominance). This was a win-win situation for the United States. There were plenty of good reasons to take action, but in this country, a country based off fear tactics, conviction based on fear was chosen. So instead of being honest with his constituency, the Bush Administration decided to lie, distort and exaggerate a virtually non-existent threat to rile up the American people. He lied about September 11th being the catalyst to the invasion, and he lied about the intelligence, and the case he built to persuaded the American people. I can't trust this man anymore, not a man that won't trust me with the truth of the situation.

The International Atomic Energy Agency had been inspecting Iraq's weapons from 1991 (after the first Gulf War) until 1998, and during that time, they destroyed and dismantled most of Iraq's destructive weapons programs. From 1998 until 2002, they continued to do less involved inspections, but they're conclusion was that they had dismantled most destructive weapons programs and Iraq was not a threat.

On March 7, 2003, the Director General of the IAEA said that there was no indication of any resumed nuclear weapons programs, and there had not been any at inspected sights. Iraq had no meaningful nuclear weapons program since 1995/1996. See also Barton Gellman's January 7th expose in the Washington Post. David Kay had then affirmed this with his testimony in late January 2004.

THIS WAS KNOWN PRIOR TO THE WAR. See the Department of State's Bureau of Intelligence and Research Report- the October 2002, National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), which said that there is not good evidence that Iraq had a serious nuclear weapons program. The CIA and the Department of Defense (DOD) also agreed that it would take several years for Iraq to produce enough Fissile material for a weapon.

In the (JIC) Joint Intelligence Committee, the British effort which produced the "sexed up" dossier intended to support the war, it was documented that with the current UN sanctions on Iraq, Iraq would be hindered in importing crucial goods for the production of fissile material, and therefore sanctions would be effective enough to stop Iraq from making a nuclear weapon. Again, this was a document meant to support the war.

Prior to the war many people thought Iraq had WMD's simply because of the surprise ones found after the first Gulf War. Fine. But when and where did Bush mention this motivation? He didn't, because a truthful dialogue with the American people is below him.

Iraq had not used any chemical weapons since the Iraq-Iraq war in the 1980's, or the gassing of the Kurds at Halabja. America supported Iraq during this time. Iraq bought chemical materials from American companies during this time. Iraq also did not use any WMD's against Americans in the Gulf War. They launched scud missiles (without any warheads).

In his testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee, George Tenet, the Director of the CIA, had said that Dick Cheney?s claims that Iraq had biological weapons programs and links to Al Queda were unfounded. Cheney said this on an interview on NPR, including the statement that two covered trucks were biolabs. Tenet, again, said that Cheney was wrong to make such claims.

Incidentally, remember those detailed nuclear plans said to have been in Afghanistan and attributed to Al Queda in Bush?s 2002 State of the Union Address. Well don?t attribute them to anyone. They were made up. The White house now admitted they lied.

The Bush Administration clearly wanted to attack Iraq before 911 or the "Axis of Evil" proclamation. Though regime change was always wanted by the U.S. dating back to 1998, anybody with a bit of logic understands that taking the stance of regime change is like saying: "if drugs are legalized, I'll support it." It's a nice stance, but it doesn't mean that it's on the agenda to forcefully accomplish this goal.

The Project for the New America Century of which Cheney and Rumsfeld were both members, outlines that if a new Pearl Harbor were to take place, an administration could use that event to launch wars against Iraq, Iran and North Korea. Other lower members of the Bush Administration such as Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and and member of the Defense Policy board Richard Pearle, always wanted to invade Iraq.

Paul O Neil and Dick Clarke, both working within the Bush Administration claim that George W. Bush was looking for reasons to invade Iraq before 911 and slightly after.

In a report made for the Waxman commission, 247 misleading statements are documented to have been said by Bush administration leading up to the war in Iraq involving exaggerations of the threat, the non-existent involvement of Iraq with Al Queda, and including Iraq in the blame for 911.

As if the blurring of truth couldn't get any worse, now there are whistleblowers within the Pentagon and CIA suggesting that the CIA planned to plant WMDs in Iraq, but were accidentally foiled by U.S. forces.

We are not dealing here with a truthful and open government here.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2474513 - 03/25/04 10:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well said... :thumbup:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2474641 - 03/25/04 10:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

what are you talking about 'whistleblowers'?

all those people are just making up stories
to sell their books and get a ride on the kerry
campaign.

why does everyone insist on targeting bush?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: afoaf]
    #2474681 - 03/25/04 10:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not sure about the "whistleblowers within the Pentagon and CIA suggesting that the CIA planned to plant WMDs in Iraq, but were accidentally foiled by U.S. forces" mentioned by TruBrode, but of the three people I mentioned, only one is trying to sell a book (Richard Clarke). Joeseph Wilson has a profitable position in the private sector as CEO of his own corporation specializing in international business development. Paul O'Neil became Treasury Secretary with the Bush administration, and is unlikely to have a position in a democratic administration.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2474687 - 03/25/04 10:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Good post.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: afoaf]
    #2474696 - 03/25/04 10:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I can't tell when you're being sarcastic anymore.

Can you?


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: afoaf]
    #2474720 - 03/25/04 11:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

ug, another one that never learned how to read. Where did I say Richard Clark or Paul O Neil were whistleblowers? Nowhere liar. They did both claim (notice I said claim) that Bush was asking for reasons to attack Iraq before and slightly after September 11th, which the Bush Administration could not deny, only dance around.

The whistleblowers that I mentioned (since you have reading comprehension problems) were mentioned in relation to the CIA planting WMD's. The woman at the forefront of these claims is Nelda Rogers, and she does not have any book on the market as far as I know.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2474754 - 03/25/04 11:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

hmmm...
searching google for nelda rogers gives a wide range of very similarly-worded articles on very left-of-center papers. The source of the wording seems to be this article in an English-language Pakistani paper:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9

This article sites
http://almartinraw.com/
as the source of its information, which looks a bit like a conspiricy website to me.


Unless you have better sources then my breif search has revield, I'm gonna have to reserve judgement on this particular point.


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: phi1618]
    #2474845 - 03/25/04 11:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Reserve your judgement if you want. I see few reasons to believe a woman with her history would make up an outlandish story- she has nothing to gain. She's a 28 year veteran of the debriefing unit of the defense department. She broke the story to Al Martin (a retired Lt. Commander from the Navy), who runs a conspiracy oriented- I prefer watch-dog- website. Of course left leaning news sources are the ones that are running the story (actually Middle Eastern news sources have ran it more) just as Drudge ran many of the early stories exposing Clinton.


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Motivation for the war in Iraq [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2474858 - 03/25/04 11:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I see few reasons to believe a woman with her history would make up an outlandish story

I have no reason to doubt her word, I only doubt her existence.


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