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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Only in England....
    #2469359 - 03/24/04 11:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2687311

Man Who Killed Armed Intruder Jailed Eight Years

By Will Batchelor, PA News


A man who stabbed to death an armed intruder at his home was jailed for eight years today.

Carl Lindsay, 25, answered a knock at his door in Salford, Greater Manchester, to find four men armed with a gun.

When the gang tried to rob him he grabbed a samurai sword and stabbed one of them, 37-year-old Stephen Swindells, four times.

Mr Swindells, of Salford, was later found collapsed in an alley and died in hospital.

Lindsay, of Walkden, was found guilty of manslaughter following a three-week trial at Manchester Crown Court.

He was sentenced to eight years? imprisonment.

After the case, Detective Chief Inspector Sam Haworth said: ?Four men, including the victim, had set out purposefully to rob Carl Lindsay and this intent ultimately led to Stephen Swindells? death.

?I believe the sentences passed today reflect the severity of the circumstances.?

Three other men were charged with robbery and firearms offences in connection with the incident, which took place in February last year.

-------------------------------

That's it -- I'm moving to England. Those are my kinda police.

pinky


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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: Phred]
    #2469614 - 03/25/04 12:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Aha. Turns out there is more to this story than first meets the eye.

The robbery victim was known to be a weed dealer, and the robbers were trying to rip him off. From http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/lancashire/archive/2004/03/09/NEWS7ZM.html

A DRUG dealer killed a man with a 12-inch sword after a gang of armed robbers slipped into his flat, a court was told.

Carl Lindsay, aged 25, swung the sword after he was threatened with a self-loading pistol.

Manchester Crown Court was told that Stephen Swindells died after suffering four main wounds, all inflicted from behind. One had severed an artery causing massive blood loss and death.

Lindsay appeared in the dock with three of the alleged robbers, one of them said to have been the get-away driver.

He denies murdering Stephen Swindells, of Harwood Court, Salford.

Three men deny robbing Lindsay. They are Darren Ashton, aged 29, of Coniston Avenue, Little Hulton; David Ryan, aged 30, of Culverwell Drive, Salford; and the driver, Michael Page, aged 25, of Trenthamlowas, Salford.

They also deny having a firearm at the time of the robbery.

Prosecutor Alan Wolstenholme said Lindsay had sold cannabis for some months to callers at his home.

On February 27 last year, two men went there to buy drugs.

Three others - the Crown claim Swindells, Ashton and Ryan - were outside the communal front door.

One asked the pair if they were going to Carl's. They indicated they were and, as the door lock was released by Lindsay, all went inside.

The two customers saw two of the three in the flat. One of them pointed a black handgun at Lindsay who repeatedly told them, "I've got nowt".

There was a scuffle and, with the sword at shoulder height, Lindsay chased the trio out of his flat.

Lindsay later told police he had been the victim of a robbery and had stabbed one of his assailants.

That night, Swindell was found in Broad Street, Salford. Nearby was the abandoned heavily bloodstained get-away car.

Swindell was rushed to hospital but staff were unable to resuscitate him. The cause of death was a 15cm (6 inch) -deep stab wound in his left thigh.

Mr Wolstenholme said the robbers fled with some cash and police found a handgun and a knife in the abandoned car.

-------------------------------

Just more victims of England's WOD, I guess. Sorry for jumping the gun.

pinky


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: Phred]
    #2472175 - 03/25/04 06:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

War on drugs?? hardly where weed is concerned...weed is practically legal here now.

Anyway I hope and pray blair doesnt start declaring war on a variety of abstract nouns as seems to be the vogue in the US.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Only in England.... [Re: Phred]
    #2472222 - 03/25/04 07:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Only in England....




While that story is pathetic I can also see that happening in the United States unfortunatly.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: Phred]
    #2472355 - 03/25/04 09:42 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Just to show that it is possible to defend yourself from intruders over here:

Quote:

Blind man killed intruder in self-defence

Claire Cozens
Friday March 19, 2004
The Guardian

An intruder who was stabbed to death when he broke into a 63-year-old blind man's home was lawfully killed, a coroner ruled yesterday.

Lee Kelso, 23, had been on a seven-hour drinking session when he kicked in the front door of Thomas O'Connor's home in Stockport, Greater Manchester.

Mr O'Connor, who is registered blind, told police he had stabbed Kelso in self-defence using a knife kept in his lounge for protection.

The south Manchester coroner, John Pollard, sitting at Stockport magistrates court, ruled yesterday that the killing had been lawful. He said Mr O'Connor was an elderly man in poor health compared with Kelso, who was big, fit and young.

"I have no doubt at all that Mr O'Connor was trying to protect himself and his wife," he said.

"One has to look at whether what happened was reasonable. I believe Mr O'Connor acted in reasonable boundaries in protecting himself and his wife." Mr O'Connor was arrested after the incident on June 14 last year but was never charged.

He told police he got into a row with Kelso after he and his wife were woken by the sound of their garden gate being banged open.

He said he went downstairs when he heard Kelso kicking the front door and took the knife from a dresser in the lounge. As he did so the front door split open and came off its hinges.

A scuffle ensued and Kelso was left with two stab wounds, one of which proved fatal. Kelso, a coal merchant's assistant, returned to the pub where he had been drinking earlier but died an hour later in hospital.

Detective Chief Inspector Ian Foster told the inquest he had sought legal advice from a barrister who said it would be "impossible for the Crown to disprove self-defence".

DCI Foster read a statement from Alan Conrad QC who said Mr Kelso had a record of anti-social behaviour which would have had to be disclosed in any prosecution.




--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: GazzBut]
    #2472394 - 03/25/04 10:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

GazzBut writes:

War on drugs?? hardly where weed is concerned...weed is practically legal here now.

You don't think the fact that the guy with the "sword" (an edged weapon only twelve inches (30 cm) long is a sword?) got eight years while the three survivors will end up with far lesser sentences has anything to do with the fact that the sword dude was a drug dealer?

Suppose he had been a diamond merchant instead. Would his sentence have been the same?

pinky


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OfflineMetaShroom
菌类
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Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 1,462
Loc: East Anglia UK
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: Phred]
    #2472700 - 03/25/04 12:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

We don't know the precise circumstances. It could be that the group of men was running away, and the defendant chased them and the victim down from behind. Common law in this country only provides for the use of reasonable force in self-defence. That is how it should be. Otherwise people could murder with impunity.


--------------------
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Offlinevalour
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Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1,453
Loc: USA
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Only in England.... [Re: Phred]
    #2472716 - 03/25/04 12:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Suppose he had been a diamond merchant instead. Would his sentence have been the same?"

How are we supposed to answer that?

"Stephen Swindells died after suffering four main wounds, all inflicted from behind. "


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: Phred]
    #2472914 - 03/25/04 02:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Suppose he had been a diamond merchant instead. Would his sentence have been the same?




If the circumstances were the same? who knows for sure...I dont think its a given that this guy had a few years added on because of the weed though.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,770
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: GazzBut]
    #2473277 - 03/25/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
War on drugs?? hardly where weed is concerned...weed is practically legal here now.





Not trying to derail the thread or anything, but i'm curious as to weither the quality and availablity of weed has increased since it's drop in scheduling. Thanks.



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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



Edited by Learyfan (03/25/04 04:38 PM)


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OfflineMetaShroom
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: Learyfan]
    #2473473 - 03/25/04 05:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

No noticeable difference. The penalties for dealing didn't change.


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JOIN MAPS -> www.MAPS.ORG


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: Learyfan]
    #2473710 - 03/25/04 06:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hasnt changed at all Learyfan. The biggest change at the moment is the fact that people are selling fresh mushrooms legally all over the place. You can buy them from shops on London's busiest streets!


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
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Registered: 06/25/01
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: Phred]
    #2473735 - 03/25/04 06:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

That is bullshit. I will use any force neccesary to protect myself, friends, family, and property.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: Phred]
    #2474455 - 03/25/04 09:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Manchester Crown Court was told that Stephen Swindells died after suffering four main wounds, all inflicted from behind. One had severed an artery causing massive blood loss and death.




I suspect that the fact that all the victims wounds came from behind is the reason he was given prison time...it shows that there was intent of the attacker to flee without confrontation.

Personally I disagree with this decision to send the defendant to jail, but on the same note I can understand the reasoning.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: GazzBut]
    #2474466 - 03/25/04 09:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks guys.

Also, how widespread is drug testing for employment in England?




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



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InvisibleLazerouth
Drunkard

Registered: 10/16/00
Posts: 1,091
Loc: England
Re: Only in England.... [Re: Learyfan]
    #2474468 - 03/25/04 09:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Weed has always been high quality here. Quite a large amount of it comes from A'dam.

I've never ever heard of drug testing in the workplace either. Maybe if you where applying for king piggy or somethin.


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InvisibleSorted
Monkee
Registered: 12/27/98
Posts: 301
Loc: UK
Re: Only in England.... [Re: Lazerouth]
    #2478757 - 03/27/04 08:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)


About 1 in 8 UK companies do random drugs tests, and rising all the time..


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Only in England.... [Re: Sorted]
    #2479229 - 03/27/04 10:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The company I work for starts doing it in a few months, about a 1 in 10 chance per year of getting tested. I still get angry about it quite often because the whole system is designed to make me look guilty if I refuse (which I'm planning to). I like my job, but not so much I want to let them analyse my fucking piss.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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