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 Pastywhyte 
Say hello to my little friend
 
Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,842
Loc: Canada 
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 Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2  6
#24692251 - 10/07/17 08:15 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey good shroomery people. I have been doing the case and fruit at spawning for sometime now and frankly I love it. But I saw eats say a bit back that he was going back to taping up tubs and I figured I should do the same. It's good to evaluate and change things up every now and then. Keeps things interesting and the methods sharp.
Since I have been doing a fair bit of ms lately I haven't been in a position to do any real side by sides. But today I'm spawning a few tubs with my favorite clone and figured that it might be time to shake it up.
So we have 2 entries here. Tub 1 is case and fruit at spawning. Tub 2 is taped holes and no casing until colonization and fruiting conditions introduced. Both are 5 quarts spawn and both are simple coir verm sub.
Hypothesis is based loosely on my observations over the years. I expect that tub 1 will colonize and pin faster. I expect the top layer to be mostly consumed by the time pins are in. I also expect it will have a less defined first flush and perhaps a slightly lower yield. I expect tub 2 to take longer to pin and to generate a bit less heat. I expect a slightly better pinset with a slightly better yield.
Despite my familiarity with both fruiting styles I have never done them side by side in real time. Hopefully this is interesting. I don't really expect to change the way I do things based on this, fruiting at spawning is simply too convenient. But it should be interesting none the less.
Oct 8
Tub 1
Tub 2
Oct 14th
Tub 1 colonized top layer
Tub 2 casing applied and fruiting conditions introduced.
 
Oct 23rd
Tub 1 has colonized most of the casing as usual and is pinning hard.
Tub 2 has pretty much not colonized the casing and has sent up a few early but beefy pins. Pretty standard for this clone.
 
Oct 28th
Tub 1 is ready for harvest. Seems to have destroyed tub 2 entirely. There are a few not really finished but I don't care. This sucker is done it's first flush.
  
Oct 30th
Tub 2 has shit the bed. I don't think it's contamed but it's not responding the way it used to under these conditions. Some huge fruit but no yield.
 
So it looks advantage case and fruit at spawning. But this was a pretty small sample. I want to run this again with more clones and a broader spectrum of tubs just to clear out the noise.
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Just_A_Noob
Breathing
Registered: 12/30/16
Posts: 6,809
Loc: PNW
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 Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24692258 - 10/07/17 08:17 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie
Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed 
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Just_A_Noob]
#24692271 - 10/07/17 08:21 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hell ya man i think this is gonna be good to see
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Just_A_Noob] 2
#24692286 - 10/07/17 08:24 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm placing my bets on that in the future the idea of colonization in high CO2 might be sort of debunked.
these are aerobic organisms. I've never seen any mycologist write their methodology for obtaining their figures. Rather they simply publish them and say this is the results I got. like in GGMM paul has tables for temps and co2 levels for fruiting and colonization. how did these figures get obtained. so many people rely on these tables very rigidly too. designing whole contraptions to keep things in these specified ranges that have been long established.
these are aerobic organisms, while obviously capable of tolerating high co2 do they particularly enjoy it?
like brewing yeast being handled by humans for so long it acts wildly different than the wild type counterparts. with some varieties of the same species having quite different temperature requirements and alcohol tolerances. the same may eventually be true of cubes as well. We could theoretically start to push the genetics towards being more tolerant of what we want to do to grow them. eventually creating varieties that are the same species but have legitimate differences in growing parameters suited for indoor cultivation.
I think the jury is still out and I'm glad you're doing this pasty. but I think more air is more better and people would dry out colonizing tubs accidentally if it wasn't for FAE restriction.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend
Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,842
Loc: Canada
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: bodhisatta]
#24692507 - 10/07/17 09:31 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I tend to agree with you on some of those fronts bodhi. I always think about how it translates into nature. Not like the cows are covering their turds with plastic to keep the CO2 up. I would like to run this again with a few other clones including a few wild ones. Maybe next year.
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie
Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24692535 - 10/07/17 09:41 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ya but wild shrooms dont grow the same as ones we domesticated either .. over the years of cloning and growing and printing and cloning would make fruits act certain ways right? I forget who it was but grew out some wild florida cubes and kept getting sporeless fruits right??
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer
Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Boogieman47]
#24692586 - 10/07/17 10:05 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is something I have wondered about.
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 Lobi
Bushido
Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 1,231
Loc: PNW
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Boogieman47]
#24692613 - 10/07/17 10:15 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I just introduce fruiting conditions at spawning and mist if need myself.
Cron has said the higher co2 makes the myc colonize rather than digest the sub, which happens with more FAE. Wait until full colonization/pinning to introduce FAE because that's when we want to spend the sub.
The logic I have heard is that low FAE causes fast spawn run and lots of FAE causes the use of nutrients rather than the colonization of nutrients.
But I dontfukkenkno about all that. My memory could be Shit, I can't find a quote.
Good thread. I am excited for the results.
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Ziran
The Hero of Time
Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 6,030
Loc: Temple of Time
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24692620 - 10/07/17 10:16 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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good info. good stuffs.  mushrooms tend to fruit when they feel like it. the only thing I can see that will be different is with the fruited at spawn tub, your going to have to mist it every now and again versus not really having to mist untill after the first flush  I suppose if you dial your tub to be super tight at the start and then loosen when pins show up that would slow evap a bit.
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OneBadMan
Stranger Danger!!
Registered: 02/25/10
Posts: 218
Loc: Mushroom City
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Ziran]
#24692644 - 10/07/17 10:26 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#24692671 - 10/07/17 10:48 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Not like the cows are covering their turds with plastic to keep the CO2 up.
the cows ain't but the farmers are don't you know to find cubes on the gulf coast you just look for fields with tented turds 
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pixelpopper
Crap Artist
Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: bodhisatta]
#24692777 - 10/07/17 11:46 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
these are aerobic organisms, while obviously capable of tolerating high co2 do they particularly enjoy it?
I just finished spawning my first monotub from my recent batch of jars a few mins ago, and came to the part of either taping the holes up or stuffing with poly and couldn't remember why I would want to tape the holes... this is my first batch after about a year break, and I was thinking why would I want to build co2.. it just doesn't make any sense.
I went ahead and taped it up because I wasn't sure, but might just take it off.
Then again, I will be starting another mono of the exact same size/type within a few days... maybe I'll try both as well
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van hatton
Still a noob
Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: pixelpopper]
#24693165 - 10/08/17 04:52 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. 
Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.
Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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Crispykoot
Jello Wrangler
Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 5,937
Loc:
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: bodhisatta]
#24693185 - 10/08/17 05:38 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
I'm placing my bets on that in the future the idea of colonization in high CO2 might be sort of debunked.
these are aerobic organisms. I've never seen any mycologist write their methodology for obtaining their figures. Rather they simply publish them and say this is the results I got. like in GGMM paul has tables for temps and co2 levels for fruiting and colonization. how did these figures get obtained. so many people rely on these tables very rigidly too. designing whole contraptions to keep things in these specified ranges that have been long established.
these are aerobic organisms, while obviously capable of tolerating high co2 do they particularly enjoy it?
like brewing yeast being handled by humans for so long it acts wildly different than the wild type counterparts. with some varieties of the same species having quite different temperature requirements and alcohol tolerances. the same may eventually be true of cubes as well. We could theoretically start to push the genetics towards being more tolerant of what we want to do to grow them. eventually creating varieties that are the same species but have legitimate differences in growing parameters suited for indoor cultivation.
I think the jury is still out and I'm glad you're doing this pasty. but I think more air is more better and people would dry out colonizing tubs accidentally if it wasn't for FAE restriction.
I'm betting the other way...Every time the liner in my tubs lays over some of the surface of the substrate, that area is most colonized and pins first...I think high CO2 at the right time and interval could be used to our advantage...
Also...Oyster mushrooms colonizing in bags with a bit of polyfill in the top are in a very high CO2 environment and they do really well...I don't have anything to compare that to but they do colonize quickly...
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Peacefrog
Stranger
Registered: 12/09/15
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: van hatton]
#24693191 - 10/08/17 05:41 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Interesting experiment, Pasty! I have never cased at spawning before and have always just done it the old fashioned way. I have seen lots of great grows from you and other cultivatiors getting great flushes with casing at spawning.
I look forward to your results, sir.
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht
Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,378
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Peacefrog]
#24694475 - 10/08/17 03:48 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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mushboy
modboy
Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,776
Loc: where?
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: fahtster]
#24694504 - 10/08/17 03:59 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fungus Mountain
Poke-N-Squirt
Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Front row @ the Freakshow
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: fahtster]
#24694509 - 10/08/17 04:01 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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― George Orwell, 1984
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Pipefitter537
You're Not Yelping
Registered: 11/25/16
Posts: 715
Loc: SodoSopa
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Fungus Mountain]
#24694731 - 10/08/17 05:28 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"-Bullet Tooth Tony
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Case and fruit at spawning vs colonization in elevated CO2 [Re: Pipefitter537]
#24694915 - 10/08/17 06:42 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm betting you go back to taping
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