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OfflineTiberjuggaligger
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Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers
    #24675910 - 10/01/17 06:26 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/2017/10/pot_breath_test_will_expose_impaired_drivers?amp

Mike Lynn, founder of Hound Labs, a California-based company that is focused on preventing marijuana-impaired driving, joined Boston Herald Radio’s “Morning Meeting” show to discuss the launch of their cannabis breath test.

Q: So talk to me about some of the advances you guys have made. I know it’s very difficult to figure out how inebriated someone is on marijuana.

A: It’s very different than alcohol. What we’ve done at Hound Labs is we’ve created a true marijuana Breathalyzer where we’re able to measure the amount of marijuana in someone’s breath, and it only stays in breath for a couple of hours. So if we measure it in your breath, we know you used in the last couple of hours. On the other hand, if we don’t measure anything in your breath, it means you’re much more likely to have used long ago. Maybe you did it last night at home, where it’s perfectly legal and you’re not impaired now — then who should care, right?

Q: Are these things ready to go or are you still working on them?

A: It’s ready to go. We’ll be out there commercially early next year. The challenge that states have faced when trying to find a way to determine impairment is that the other ways to test for marijuana — blood tests, lab tests, urine tests and whatnot — those are usually to show marijuana, but the problem is that they can’t tell you whether somebody’s actually used in the last couple of hours or whether they used last night at home where it’s perfectly legal. So we’ve changed that completely. We just focus on breath where we know THC, the stuff in marijuana, only stays for a couple of hours. Now there’s a test, a road test Breathalyzer, just like an alcohol Breathalyzer, that will determine whether somebody really should be off the road.

Q: And does this also work with edibles?

A: Yes it does. It’s the same concept of when you drink alcohol. You drink it and the alcohol ends up in your breath, well the same thing with edibles. You eat them and eventually it gets to the bloodstream and gets into the breath.

Q: So what is the amount of time roughly? They know with alcohol roughly how long it takes to metabolize. What’s the situation with marijuana?

A: The federal government has said people are impaired for two to three hours or so after smoking pot. That’s the time period people actually need to stay off the road and that’s about the same time period that marijuana stays in your breath.


--------------------


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
    #24676119 - 10/01/17 07:29 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

What if the person smokes pot a lot and they don't get high from smoking it?


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OfflineTiberjuggaligger
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Konyap]
    #24676173 - 10/01/17 07:57 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

The THC is still in the bloodstream and therfore detectable, so even if tolerance keeps you from being high, the breathalyzer will still register it and that's all they need for a conviction.


--------------------


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McCoy: Jim, what are you doing?
Kirk: I'm asking a question.
"God": Who is this creature?
Kirk: Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God?
Sybok: He has his doubts.
"God": You doubt me?
Kirk: I seek proof.
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InvisibleChemicalSpark


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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
    #24676224 - 10/01/17 08:32 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Fuck that guy and his breathalyzer.


--------------------


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OfflineTiberjuggaligger
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: ChemicalSpark]
    #24676266 - 10/01/17 08:48 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ChemicalSpark said:
Fuck that guy and his breathalyzer.





Don't be that way about it. The need for quick road side testing, testing that can tell the difference between recent smoking and the smoke session a week ago, is one of the biggest hurdles to full on federal legalization. Without a way to differentiate between the two, many people would be jailed for dui unjustly, with no way to fight it. Now there is a tool in the mix that will make the lawmakers feel safer when considering legalization as a whole. This is a responsible step in the right direction.


--------------------


Kirk: What does God need with a starship?
McCoy: Jim, what are you doing?
Kirk: I'm asking a question.
"God": Who is this creature?
Kirk: Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God?
Sybok: He has his doubts.
"God": You doubt me?
Kirk: I seek proof.
McCoy: Jim! You don't ask the Almighty for his ID


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InvisibleChemicalSpark


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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
    #24676324 - 10/01/17 09:27 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by ChemicalSpark (04/23/20 08:28 PM)


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OfflineTiberjuggaligger
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: ChemicalSpark]
    #24676467 - 10/01/17 10:38 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

The article says it only detects up to three hours prior use. It doesn't work by measuring how many nanograms of THC are in your blood. From the labs website:

"Ultimately, the Hound team wants to answer the question: “How much marijuana causes impairment?” It was a question which was impossible to answer when the only previously available tests were those that measured the presence of THC in blood, saliva, urine, and sweat – not whether an individual had used marijuana recently. The missing link that prevented scientists from determining how much marijuana causes impairment was a marijuana breathalyzer that could measure recent use in breath and connect those measurements with the window of impairment.  Why? Because THC remains in breath for only a few hours before it disappears and this timeframe matches the window of marijuana impairment."

It's plain to see this device does not measure THC in the blood, rather the THC in your breath, which the feds agree is gone within 3 hours of use. So no matter the persons individual chemistry, the THC is gone from their breath in 3 hours, period. That is the basis for the detection period this breathalyzer.


--------------------


Kirk: What does God need with a starship?
McCoy: Jim, what are you doing?
Kirk: I'm asking a question.
"God": Who is this creature?
Kirk: Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God?
Sybok: He has his doubts.
"God": You doubt me?
Kirk: I seek proof.
McCoy: Jim! You don't ask the Almighty for his ID


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Invisibletrscstghst
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
    #24676522 - 10/01/17 10:59 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

well the amount of thc in your breath will be determined by how much is in your blood.  the reason the alcohol is detectable in your breath is because it evaporates rapidly, so there are detectible levels in your breath because its evaporating from your blood as it passes through your lungs.  thc doesn't evaporate rapidly.  so what is the mechanism of action of this device? and if they aren't measuring Ng/l what are they measuring?


--------------------
Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?
o Henry Ford


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OfflineTiberjuggaligger
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: trscstghst]
    #24676563 - 10/01/17 11:16 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I understand how BAC works and was hopeful their website would clarify exactly what they were measuring, sadly it did not give specifics, the most specific part is what I quoted above. I really can't say where their measurement comes from, only that they say it has nothing to do with blood. Perhaps it will be explained in a future article and I will be able to post it. Or perhaps one of us could reach out to the company for detailed specifics.

houndlabs@houndlabs.com


--------------------


Kirk: What does God need with a starship?
McCoy: Jim, what are you doing?
Kirk: I'm asking a question.
"God": Who is this creature?
Kirk: Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God?
Sybok: He has his doubts.
"God": You doubt me?
Kirk: I seek proof.
McCoy: Jim! You don't ask the Almighty for his ID


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
    #24676597 - 10/01/17 11:32 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

probably detecting resins in your mouth
might be able to beat it by brushing your teeth and gargling some peroxide.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24676671 - 10/02/17 12:10 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I would not gargle peroxide, lol

This is probably a scam that doesn't work as advertised.. Anything from the sellers of the device is going to be aimed and bringing in buyers. How convenient they say it doesn't detect more than 3 hours previous use. This I doubt very much.

Remember you do not have to submit to blood, urine, breath or mouth swab tests etc. They have to have already evidence of impaired driving to force it. A roadside test on everyone who passes by will not be legally enforceable, IMO. Just say no to drug tests.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24676731 - 10/02/17 12:34 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I would not gargle peroxide, lol

This is probably a scam that doesn't work as advertised.. Anything from the sellers of the device is going to be aimed and bringing in buyers. How convenient they say it doesn't detect more than 3 hours previous use. This I doubt very much.

Remember you do not have to submit to blood, urine, breath or mouth swab tests etc. They have to have already evidence of impaired driving to force it. A roadside test on everyone who passes by will not be legally enforceable, IMO. Just say no to drug tests.





In some places, refusal of a roadside test is grounds for being detained/arrested for further testing at the station.


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OfflineTiberjuggaligger
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Tulipslave] * 1
    #24676798 - 10/02/17 01:07 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Peroxide is good for dental hygiene, just don't swallow it.

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-4570/hydrogen-peroxide-mucous-membrane/details

It also helps relieve the pain of toothaches and many other things.

https://wakeup-world.com/2012/07/09/27-amazing-benefits-and-uses-for-hydrogen-peroxide/


--------------------


Kirk: What does God need with a starship?
McCoy: Jim, what are you doing?
Kirk: I'm asking a question.
"God": Who is this creature?
Kirk: Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God?
Sybok: He has his doubts.
"God": You doubt me?
Kirk: I seek proof.
McCoy: Jim! You don't ask the Almighty for his ID


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Invisibletrscstghst
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
    #24676913 - 10/02/17 01:51 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I am guessing the device has some serious short comings.  that is good, that means there will be plenty of room for a legal defense against such a test.  if helps people feel more comfortable abut legalization, then so be it.


--------------------
Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?
o Henry Ford


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
    #24677333 - 10/02/17 09:58 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Very dilute peroxide can be used that way, not straight out of the bottle 3%. Some people reading the other post might even try to gargle with 35% which would be a shame.

(tulip)
>In some places, refusal of a roadside test is grounds for being detained/arrested for further testing at the station.

What places are those? I was not talking about when a cop sees you swerving all over the road or some other evidence of impairment. I specifically mentioned stopping all who pass by or selecting at random and asking them to take a test. I know of no place where that is legal. Cops will however try to bully you into taking a test. Just say no and ask if you are free to leave.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24677523 - 10/02/17 11:35 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I got a DUI years ago.  I got pulled over because my driver side wheels touched the line but I didn't change lanes.  No shit, that's what she put in her police report.  It's easy enough to make up a reason to pull you over.  Once when I was a teenager, my buddy got pulled over for being young on saturday night.  After the cops got done tossing the car, he went around back with his maglight and broke the little bulb that lights up the rear license plate.  Then he wrote a fix-it ticket for the light bulb.


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InvisibleHobbyist
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24679833 - 10/03/17 01:36 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Very dilute peroxide can be used that way, not straight out of the bottle 3%. Some people reading the other post might even try to gargle with 35% which would be a shame.

(tulip)
>In some places, refusal of a roadside test is grounds for being detained/arrested for further testing at the station.

What places are those? I was not talking about when a cop sees you swerving all over the road or some other evidence of impairment. I specifically mentioned stopping all who pass by or selecting at random and asking them to take a test. I know of no place where that is legal. Cops will however try to bully you into taking a test. Just say no and ask if you are free to leave.




In some places, refusal to take a test will automatically revoke your license for a year, regardless of whether you had anything in your system or not.


--------------------
Everything i say is completely hypothetical...



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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Hobbyist]
    #24679853 - 10/03/17 01:47 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hobbyist said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Very dilute peroxide can be used that way, not straight out of the bottle 3%. Some people reading the other post might even try to gargle with 35% which would be a shame.

(tulip)
>In some places, refusal of a roadside test is grounds for being detained/arrested for further testing at the station.

What places are those? I was not talking about when a cop sees you swerving all over the road or some other evidence of impairment. I specifically mentioned stopping all who pass by or selecting at random and asking them to take a test. I know of no place where that is legal. Cops will however try to bully you into taking a test. Just say no and ask if you are free to leave.




In some places, refusal to take a test will automatically revoke your license for a year, regardless of whether you had anything in your system or not.




that's true, but it would be worth it if it gets you out of the DUI.  The Ca DMV auto-revokes for 12 months for refusal of a roadside test.  You're gonna get that for a conviction anyway.


--------------------
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InvisibleChemicalSpark

Registered: 10/08/15
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: ChemicalSpark]
    #26623121 - 04/23/20 08:28 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

.


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
    #26623558 - 04/24/20 12:15 AM (1 month, 3 days ago)

I'd really like to know what substance they are actually testing for.

If it's something that disappears completely after a few hours no matter how much you ingested, ok fine, but my guess is this substance is still detectable 6+ hours after smoking but the company has attempted to calibrate their devices with cutoff levels that make it appear as though it only detects recent use....in which case this device will pretty much only be accurate for infrequent cannabis users, while heavy/chronic users could fail all the time even if not impaired, or those with a high tolerance could fail say, 2 hours after light(for them) use when they are no longer impaired.


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InvisibleDoc9151M
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26624373 - 04/24/20 12:25 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

More bullshit to generate profits and control over others, there's no comparison to driving under the influence of Marijuana vs Alcohol, especially when it comes to chronic use. I understand that some people will need to be more careful than others when they first start using cannabis,  but eventually they will not have the same reaction as when they first started using.


--------------------
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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Doc9151]
    #26628935 - 04/26/20 08:03 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

I generally agree...especially about the tolerance part, cannabis tolerance works very different than alcohol tolerance...there does come a point where it just doesn't affect your coordination much anymore, especially outside that first toke of the day.

Although even for chronic users there is such a thing as too high to drive, here's the catch though, unlike alcohol which lowers your inhibitions and impairs your judgement, it's easy enough for chronic users to know when they've reached their limits.

Personally, I'd be willing to live with the inconvenience of not driving for a couple hours after getting high, even when I know I could, if it meant there was a reliable test to help keep people who really have no business driving off the road...my fear is that chronic users will still fail this test even when they have't recently consumed.

And I still can't believe edibles would have the same detection window as smoking, despite claims from the company. If it is true, that's one thing, but medical users who take an lowish oral dose in the morning shouldn't be restricted from driving all day.


Edited by Holybullshit (04/26/20 08:10 AM)


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InvisibleDoc9151M
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26629273 - 04/26/20 11:18 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

For me to be ok with something like this it needs to be able to give blood concentrations not a yes they have smoked weed but we can't say how much is in their system type of scenario,  it needs to be like alcohol where if someone blows over .08 or something like that.


--------------------
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Doc9151]
    #26629751 - 04/26/20 02:29 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

For me to be OK with this they need to fuck off completely with it


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: Doc9151]
    #26631514 - 04/27/20 08:36 AM (1 month, 13 hours ago)

I don't imagine it would be very difficult to get the device to do that...how arbitrary those numbers are could be a different story.

I guess blood levels could be discovered/confirmed by drawing of blood after arrest...but that doesn't really solve the problem facing chronic users/those with a tolerance. Acceptable levels would no doubt be based on the affect cannabis has on infrequent users, at best, or possibly those who are cannabis naive.

I really don't see any possible path forward that works fairly for chronic users, especially given our "zero tolerance" approach. It will be difficult, even with evidence, to get policy makers to accept that cannabis tolerance(unlike alcohol tolerance) has a real and meaningful affect on ones ability to drive with cannabis in their system and craft legislation accordingly.

One could hope that it would be possible to refuse the "cannabis breathalyzer" while still submitting to a standardized field sobriety test...and hope the officers act in good faith(good luck). At least if they didn't, and you performed well, you could use the video in court. Although that provides little solace, as that means you were still subjected to arrest and likely will plea out before getting that far.

This is a subject I am very torn on...because I do not approve of DUI, but I also know that it is possible to drive safely under the influence of cannabis(to a degree) for those with a tolerance, I also know that it is much easier to judge when, and admit, it is not safe to drive under the influence of cannabis.

I also don't expect LEO to act in good faith, but they can already charge and arrest anyone they want for suspicion of DUI of cannabis. So such a device, or new policy regarding DUI of cannabis, could act to protect one from persecution by LEO.

I think I would just as soon not see such a device deployed, and just have officers rely on a SFST to determine ones ability to drive...even though I know under this scenario there will both be people who have no business driving who will either never be tested or pass the SFST, as well as people who are perfectly capable of driving and/or have low levels of cannabis in their system who will face arrest.


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InvisibleDoc9151M
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Re: Pot breath test will expose impaired drivers [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26631567 - 04/27/20 09:26 AM (1 month, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
For me to be OK with this they need to fuck off completely with it



Haha 😄 I agree Bod, it is bullshit!!! However,  we know big brother won't let it go.


--------------------
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