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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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A question for those against big business
    #2464630 - 03/23/04 07:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Okay, I've noticed that a few people here are avidly against big business, yet I can't see why. If you eliminate major corporations it will cause many problems, for instance the cost of manufacturing in small scale companies will be much more in many instances than large scale companies, and will cause prices to escalate. Also I guess people may think that it will create jobs, yet major corporations employ many people. For instance Walmart, they employ many people, and also due to there size have super cheap prices as they buy in massive quantities.

Anyway just a couple of my opinions, so I would like to know why those who dont support big business feel the way they do.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2464687 - 03/23/04 07:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not against big business per se. I just think they have too much influence in politics. I think if we stopped recognizing corporate personhood, then it would solve a lot of those issues. Also, regarding low prices: I certainly like paying less, but not when it involves supporting sweatshop labor overseas.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleblink
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2464734 - 03/23/04 07:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

If you eliminate major corporations it will cause many problems



They shouldnt have been allowed to become so major in the first place.

Read No Logo by Naomi Klein. Watch Baraka.
It might make more sense why we hate so much then.
I would rather pay high prices than support a system that shits in my mouth and tells me to chew because they know what's best for me. :mad2:

Workers rights, freedom of speech (without threat of libel), homogenization of global culture, mass consumption, advertising in schools, political meddling, job-flight, and the promotion of "family values".  These are the reasons my hated for global conglomerates burns with the fury of a thousand burning suns.

No, really.... actually sit down and read No Logo, it's actually pretty interesting. :thumbup:


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InvisibleArmFromTheAbyss
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2464783 - 03/23/04 08:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Big business creates the concentration of wealth into the private sector. Some rediculously, unnecessarily rich guy owns the business and a few too many fancy cars, while the hardest working people at the bottom still can't afford to pay their bills. Often in these big businesses, manegerial authority is unrestricted, as they can just fire you if you stand up for yourself.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2464784 - 03/23/04 08:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I prefer diffuse power over concentrated power in the hands of an elite few.

Wal-mart's prices aren't really that low.

Well, lower than who? Lower than convenience stores? Sure, but not much if any lower than most medium sized chains that cary the same items. I rarely buy meat there because their meat sucks. There is another local store in town that has much better meat at about the same prices.


Giant agro-corporations have centralized food production in such a way that has lead to more food being produced, but at the same time caused an increase localized food shortages resulting in more starvation, not less. Not to mention that their efficiency practices are inhumane and unsafe.


Large companies create job monopolies and reduce wage competition. This results in lower wages, which results mostly in higher profits for the wealthy, and possibly some reduction in prices, but if you have no job and no money, then slightly lower prices don't mean very much.

Yes, major corporations do employ many people, but not as many as several smaller companies would have.


Basically, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, the poorest are getting dead, and the middle class are getting beans for $.03 a pound less. Whoopie!


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2464903 - 03/23/04 08:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

well put.

walmart employs less than 10 companies 1/10 it's
size in sales volume when you consider the fact
that each of these smaller companies employs
HR, legal, accounting and similar agents where
walmart can use a single group (albeit larger) to
handle these affairs for all shops.

I think that the best point is the concentration of
power, especially political power that sours people
the most.

corporate interest has gotten the US into a lot of
shitty situations in the past, present and will surely
continue to do so into the future.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: afoaf]
    #2464968 - 03/23/04 09:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think the worst thing is that it creates more poor and more uber-wealthy while diminishing the middle class.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2465106 - 03/23/04 09:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Everyone seems to have covered it pretty well. Better than I could.

Corporations create a concentration of wealth and become far too powerful. I don't buy the fact that they create jobs. Many mom and pop businesses are forced to close up shop when Walmart opens up shop in their town.

The worst part about corporations to me is that they have so much influence in politics. No one should be able to buy politicians in America, yet that's exactly what happens.




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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: Learyfan]
    #2465170 - 03/23/04 10:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There were many valid points in this thread, I shall have to ponder them further.


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InvisibleGijith
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2465180 - 03/23/04 10:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I could care less about economic issues or companies becoming too powerful. I just care about quality. I absolutely believe that once companies go public, they're ten times more likely to go downhill. The main priority becomes risk control and how to squeeze as much money as possible from consumers in order to keep their holders happy. A public company will make 99.9 percent of its decisions based on what will yield the most profits. A private company doesn't have that pressure on it and is more likely to take risks and be original. It's rare that I take issue with a private company, no matter how big it is. I have a massive amount of respect for large company owners that care enough about quality to keep at least some of their interests off the market.

PS: Sabbath, the company you hinge your argument on, Walmart, is a piece of shit.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: Gijith]
    #2465194 - 03/23/04 10:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You have problems with the quality of Walmart?


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: Gijith]
    #2465199 - 03/23/04 10:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I was merely using walmart as an example, not making them the basis for my entire argument, plus I happen to enjoy the extremely cheap prices offered at the super walmart here.

edit, also I was merely putting forth my current understanding of big business, not trying to influence others, I was curious to hear the cons of big business as they were not apparent to me.


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Edited by blacksabbathrulz (03/23/04 10:18 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: silversoul7]
    #2465368 - 03/23/04 11:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Seems the majority of responders have a beef not with big business, but with government's treatment of big business.

This is why there should be a complete separation between government and the economy. It is every bit as important as -- arguably more important than -- the need to separate religion and government, or education and government, or health care and government.

The very best thing government can do for the economy is to stay out of it entirely.

pinky


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InvisibleDazedSol
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2465386 - 03/23/04 11:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Working in a manufacturing field of business myself, i see all these points firsthand........

I firmly believe that a hand full of smaller 'mom and pop' operations go about things in a far more fair manner(employment,prices,quality of goods and service), run things more efficiently,and are better for the community and ultimately the economy on a whole than any one gloated mega corporation.......

Although, for the Yin there is a yang.......

The big corps were at one time small operations......and the little places are all striving to be big.......

as things advance the big ones get bigger and small ones are left constantly striving to expand or in some cases just survive.......some do, some dont.....the competitive environment breeds innovation along with contempt

Where should we have drawn the line? Could we ever have fairly drawn a line, a cut-off point of some kind? I dont see any conceivable way really.......





.
.
.
Well i guess one possible solution does exist......people have to become more civil yet.....truly start to care for each other......making everyone truly rich, further advancing technology and innovation to great hieghts and for what i  see as the 'right' reasons.......win=win type of thing :stoned:


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Peace,
Adam


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OfflinePhred
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: blink]
    #2465406 - 03/23/04 11:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

blinkidiot writes:

I would rather pay high prices than support a system that shits in my mouth and tells me to chew because they know what's best for me.

Then aren't you fortunate you live in a country where you are free to do exactly that. There is no shortage of people willing (even eager) to sell you shoes stitched together by well-paid craftsmen working in their small family business, or clothes made of hand-woven fabrics designed by couturiers working for small clothing boutiques, or organically-grown portobellos (that designation always makes me laugh -- what mushrooms aren't organically-grown?), or one-of-a-kind stereo amplifiers lovingly handbuilt by some geek working out of his tiny factory, and more.

pinky


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: Phred]
    #2465438 - 03/23/04 11:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, it's just unfortunate that more people don't do that. The real root of the problem is the indifference of the American people.


what mushrooms aren't organically-grown?

Hydroponic mushrooms of course.  :rolleyes:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2465511 - 03/23/04 11:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
You have problems with the quality of Walmart?



I have a friend who works at Walmart, and he has problems with the way they treat their employees.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: silversoul7]
    #2465820 - 03/24/04 12:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

My older brother works at Walmart, he has a problem with the irresponsibility of the younger workers. They show up for work late or not at all (without even calling), they take an excessive number of sick days (usually clustered around weekends, school holidays or after a good load of snow is dropped in the local mountains), a great number quit without any notice, they show up to work in the morning stinking of booze from the night before, they're rude and/or inattentive to customers and then they have the gall to complain that management isn't paying their inexperienced slacking asses as much as the management gets. Go figure.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: silversoul7]
    #2465969 - 03/24/04 01:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Also, regarding low prices: I certainly like paying less, but not when it involves supporting sweatshop labor overseas.



I go to school with an exchange student from India. She is a big fan of the "sweat shops". Apparently the pay they offer is considerably higher than most other jobs over there. Also the cost of living must be taken into account. Thanks to sweat shops her parents were able to give her an education while maintaining a decent standard of living for themselves. According to her our idea of sweat shops is mostly a myth.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: A question for those against big business [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2465990 - 03/24/04 01:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I like big business.


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