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 DividedQuantum
Outer Head
 
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,858
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 Is Conquest a Natural Trait? 
#24644986 - 09/19/17 08:24 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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We tend to overlook our assumptions in our facile explanations of the conquest of the world by the white man. China, for example, had the world's most superior technology for thousands of years, and never felt the need to conquer anybody. It may be hard for some to believe, but not every civilization in the world, or even possibly the galaxy, must behave in the manner of Western man's.
Is conquest and unlimited growth a natural phenomenon? Or is it limited to particular cultures? In any case, most people in the Western world seem to feel it's fundamental, and rather obviously so, and I'm not so sure.
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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
China, for example, had the world's most superior technology for thousands of years, and never felt the need to conquer anybody.
I don't believe that for a second. China is like Europe. A history of kingdoms that have routinely conquered each other, unified, fractured, unified again and so on.
I won't call it fundamental or ubiquitous. But its certainly not a unique feature of the evil white man...
There was a Hazelnut orchard by my old house that I used to enjoy walking in. Once, during a freak snowstorm, the weight of the snow killed the branches of many of the weak trees. What was the response to this by the neighbor trees? They did not recoil to allow their fallen neighbor to recoup. Quite the opposite. Their branches sprinted into the newly formed space of the weakened tree. They naturally responded to take the resources the old tree used to gather and thus denied the old tree the ability to grow back. That is conquest.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,858
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Re: Is Conquest a Natural Trait? [Re: DieCommie]
#24645015 - 09/19/17 08:31 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not calling the white man evil. China never expanded very far from its historical boundaries. The lineage from Mesopotamia through Rome through Europe to now has taken over the world. There's clearly a difference. So what's different?
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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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 Thanatos10
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
We tend to overlook our assumptions in our facile explanations of the conquest of the world by the white man. China, for example, had the world's most superior technology for thousands of years, and never felt the need to conquer anybody. It may be hard for some to believe, but not every civilization in the world, or even possibly the galaxy, must behave in the manner of Western man's.
Is conquest and unlimited growth a natural phenomenon? Or is it limited to particular cultures? In any case, most people in the Western world seem to feel it's fundamental, and rather obviously so, and I'm not so sure.
It's something to do at least. Not like there's anything more meaningful to do.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
China never expanded very far from its historical boundaries.
Where do you get this information?
Wikipedia has a clear graphic on the expansion and conquests of china.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_China#/media/File:China_Dynasties.gif
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,858
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Re: Is Conquest a Natural Trait? [Re: DieCommie]
#24645032 - 09/19/17 08:37 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do you have reading comprehension problems DieCommie? I said China never expanded beyond its historical boundaries. Western man took over the world. There's an equivalence here for you? You look foolish.
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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Yea, I don't get it. The link clearly shows the historic boundaries growing, shrinking, splitting, growing again and ultimately expanding far beyond it's historic boundaries... I think you are just trying to shit on whitey.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,173
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
I'm not calling the white man evil. China never expanded very far from its historical boundaries. The lineage from Mesopotamia through Rome through Europe to now has taken over the world. There's clearly a difference. So what's different?
China had hard natural boundaries. Ocean, Desert, Mountains. They expanded up to those boundaries long ago.
That being said, it is difficult to say with certainty which behavioral traits are genetic and which are learned. A lot of times, it's a chicken and egg argument. By and large, conquest and violence seems to be the rule, with a few exceptions here and there.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,858
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Re: Is Conquest a Natural Trait? [Re: ballsalsa]
#24645093 - 09/19/17 09:00 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is there not some essential difference, though, between civilizations like the Inca, Maya, Aztec, Chinese, etc., which do fight wars but never go very far, and Western civilization, which has consumed the globe?
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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,173
Loc: Foreign Lands
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I think it's just a matter of timing. Those other civilizations expanded as far as natural boundaries allowed them to easily march men. Europeans, for whatever reason, Figured out how to make good boats and make money thereby. If Chinese guys had bothered to invent better boats, they would have expanded further too. I suspect the reason has to do with the lack of unification on the continent fostering competition. China's natural boundaries also afforded them a level of protection from foreign invasion etc. for much of their history, with some notable exceptions, which takes away some of the impetus for wanting to expand further. Finally, attempting to conquer and administer over the world, was impractical for almost all of history, and arguably is still so today.
Edit: I guess my point is that those other civilizations did expand and conquer the areas that were important to them at the time.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Is Conquest a Natural Trait? [Re: ballsalsa]
#24645158 - 09/19/17 09:17 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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China had a merchant fleet and sunk their boats and turned their focus inward. Protectionism, isolation. These traits do not bode well for growth. They do not bring wealth. Cultural traits that bring wealth and growth are spread by their virtue. Even though whitey occupies a fraction of the globe, western culture is attractive beyond those borders due to its ability to provide growth, wealth and personal fulfillment.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,173
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Is Conquest a Natural Trait? [Re: DieCommie] 1
#24645162 - 09/19/17 09:19 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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It helped to have gunboats.
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
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Europe was a to use a worn out phrase a melting pot a nexus for many war like cultures and many trading cultures, it had a taken as whole a temperate climate that allowed for even in the worst of ecological times a habitat that supported men better than most places through the last little Ice Age and afterwards. It is at the intersection of trade routes and it assimilated lots of warring cultures, or at least worked out it's differences enough to work together for the common good most of the time. The big thing it had going for it the lack of environmental obstacles to invasion.
It's not so much that shit started in Europe it just passed through there on its way to other places and in the process shit got the Europe brand.
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Salingo
Stranger
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Re: Is Conquest a Natural Trait? [Re: falcon]
#24645724 - 09/20/17 04:41 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think for some men it's natural.. it depends on the person leading.
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Green7Alchemist
Draco
Registered: 12/28/16
Posts: 2,171
Loc: Mayami
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Re: Is Conquest a Natural Trait? [Re: Salingo]
#24646723 - 09/20/17 01:54 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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maybe Europe is also like this but i cant say, im American..
with our entertainment industry, and our big cities, and up until recently our religious freedom and tolerance on immigrants, the american dream is real, people come to this country to start families, work, and die with a retirement check.
i know there are other countries much better... but not one comes to mind besides Holland.. did you know the police there is called polite?
you can walk around shroomed out, the police are polite. 
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Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.
Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"
Edited by Green7Alchemist (09/20/17 01:55 PM)
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xLuciferLied
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Registered: 10/16/12
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Quote:
Green7Alchemist said:
i know there are other countries much better... but not one comes to mind besides Holland.. did you know the police there is called polite?
I would say Denmark is pretty sweet
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Green7Alchemist
Draco
Registered: 12/28/16
Posts: 2,171
Loc: Mayami
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Re: Is Conquest a Natural Trait? [Re: xLuciferLied]
#24646784 - 09/20/17 02:22 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Denmark looks like a beautiful country.
dont they have that weird tradition of killing the wales there?
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Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.
Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system 
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Quote:
Green7Alchemist said:
with our entertainment industry, and our big cities, and up until recently our religious freedom and tolerance on immigrants, the american dream is real, people come to this country to start families, work, and die with a retirement check.
It's been like this in most countries in the western world until pretty recently.
Holland ain't that sweet - I spent age 6-11 growing up there whilst Rotterdam was in the grip of a heroin epidemic. It was not pretty. The spelling of the cops name is purely arbitrary - they're not much better than they are anywhere else.
IMO, the westernised countries that have it most together are the Scandinavian ones. They seem to put a lot more cultural focus on the things that really matter, like community, housing and schooling.
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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe
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Green7Alchemist
Draco
Registered: 12/28/16
Posts: 2,171
Loc: Mayami
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are you telling me the police are not polite? im just not buying it!
and what do you think makes them different, how come the US is so bent on war and to keep w the OP the expansion of our way of life.
maybe their traditions and culture is why they have a since of community like the whale thing rationally i dont get it, cause its not my culture but i understand it has to do (i think i could be totally off) with bringing unification thru this tradition, perhaps bridging the gap from the past to the future.
you know here we got thanksgiving...
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Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.
Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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I think you've got a lot in your post bent out if shape. It's not surprising, being indoctrinated to US culture and all. I seen that beast from the inside. I have one word for you:
Travel.
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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe
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