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OfflineSource
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Acceptance and Action * 1
    #2463659 - 03/23/04 02:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

How do we reconcile the two?

Buddha said that the root of all suffering is desire. Desire is non-acceptance of reality. So to be free from desire is to accept what is.

Yet, it seems as though to accept the world as it is - with all its suffering, greed, ignorance - is to not act to change it. Clearly the world must change, we must act. And yet again, if we act from non-acceptance, from our own desire to change the world to suit our ideals we will unknowingly contribute our own suffering into the world. Our very actions infused with our personal desires (even our desire to help) will turn to folly and screw things up more.

So, how do we accept the world as it is and also act to change it?

My guess is that we must first absolutely and completely accept everything in the world as it is right now. We must have no personal desire to change anything.

The world is the face of God. Destruction, death, starvation, Wall-Mart, corporate-slavery, Bush, greed, environmental destruction, terrorism, bombs, pesticides and the suffering of our children...they are all manifestations of reality - of God. It is a test. Can you accept it or are you trying to change the world into what you want it to be before you accept it? Are you trying to change God before you agree to accept it (him/her/whatever)?

If you are trying to change the world because you refuse to accept it as it is you are acting from your own personal desires - your ego. And it shouldn't take long before you realize that all the other ego's out there trying to satisfy thier own desires are the cause of all the suffering you want to end. Don't add your ego to the mix. You can't fight fire with fire.

If you want a revolution because you refuse to accept reality you will only start the same thing all over again. It won't be a true revolution, you'll just be repeating the same crap.

If you have trully accepted the world you will have also transcended your personal desire to change it, you will have transcended your ego. And it is only here that true positive action can take place.

Those who have completely accepted the world still act. Buddha taught the mind teachings, Jesus preached the Kingdom of God and healed the sick. Were they trying to change the world to suit themselves? I don't think so. I think that when we have transcended our desire to change the world, we see clearly for the first time.

And what we see is the flow of the universe. We surrender ourselves to this flow. Our lives become an instrument through which this flow acts, not from our own personal desire, but from the will of God. We become an agent through which God participates directly in the lives of mankind. The reverberations of such a person echoes throughout space and time and changes the very foundation upon which all of mankind rests.

This is what we are called to be. This is how we can accept the world and at the same time change it in a more profound way than you can imagine.

Now, if I could just get over the accepting part! And of course this is just my theory. Feel free to rip apart at your leisure.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: Source]
    #2464431 - 03/23/04 06:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The world is the face of God. Destruction, death, starvation, Wall-Mart, corporate-slavery, Bush, greed, environmental destruction, terrorism, bombs, pesticides and the suffering of our children...they are all manifestations of reality - of God. It is a test. Can you accept it or are you trying to change the world into what you want it to be before you accept it? Are you trying to change God before you agree to accept it (him/her/whatever)?




If you eliminated desire, you would destroy your t.v., stop shopping at wal-mart, and everything else you mentioned would be trivial and unimportant to you. They would be outside the radar of your day to day life.

Your actions would come to reflect your acceptance.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2464556 - 03/23/04 06:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

props to source.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: Source]
    #2466036 - 03/24/04 02:12 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

SpecialEd,

I don't think I can say what you or I or anybody would do if they completely eliminated all desire. My point is that if we did this there wouldn't be an 'I' to do anything. God would be the doer and for all I know it (he/she/whatever) would order a big mac and stay up late watching re-runs of Three's Company.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: Source]
    #2466149 - 03/24/04 03:02 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I think the way to changing the world is by each individual changing himself, first.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: Source]
    #2466504 - 03/24/04 05:44 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yes accepting reality is the key. if you accept reality you realize that in life you win some and you lose some. because that's the way life works, you can't rely on the outside world to make you happy. if you do you will frustrated disappointed angry and worried. these feelings are indicators that there's something in your head that is bothering you. you can change it right then and there.

In order to do something like this though, we would have to see the utter futility in us trying to change the world around us to fit our demand and desires. I'm not syaing desires are bad, but you get a negative feedback in your head if your desires aren't met and you think they SHOULD. can't we desire things, but at the same time, if they aren't met, we don't need to feel disappointment or worry? if it happens it happens, I did my best. if it doesn't, no sweat, there's always more options. often in life you win some and you lose some, you can't change that. but you can definately have a say on how you feel, which is directly related to how you experience the world around you.

you can still be right, and all that, but why do you have to feel bad when a desire isn't met. maybe with suffering like food and shelter, then yeah begin worrying.

sure desire is part of the problem, but it's our attitude towards desire which is important to look at.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineSource
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: Source]
    #2466931 - 03/24/04 11:15 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Right on, having desires without clinging to the results of the search to satisfy those desires is certainly a better way to live than agonizing every time things don't go our way.

But what I am getting at is more radical. I'm talking about the ABSOLUTE cessation of ALL personal desire. The reason those who have accomplished this still appear to act is because God acts through them in perfect accord with its will.

See I don't believe we can live according to the 'will of God'. The only way to live according to the will of God is to give up our own will (not my will but thine be done) and to do so is to 'die'. Then there isn't an 'I' living in accord with God's will, there is only God's will being done.

What I'm laying out is pure spirituality. Ultimately spirituality isn't about making you feel better. Spirituality is about destroying (or transcending) 'you' altogether.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: Source]
    #2466951 - 03/24/04 11:19 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

~Wait's for Ped's response~ :grin:



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Invisiblehawk
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: Source]
    #2467100 - 03/24/04 12:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Buddha and the idea of god never really got along together until the founding of the New land system of Buddhism. As for the whole no desire thing it is a nice idea but I always felt it was not a realistic goal because even the great Buddha profits and teachers still had the desire to teach and recruit people into their way of thinking. It does not matter if god exists or not, we are all capable of being god while still alive hell we can even create life. everything we need or desire can be created by ourselfs it is just a matter of time. There is a term that Crowley liked to pretend he invented called the Oath of the Abyss it is the idea of everything in your world was created by you and  you are responsible for everything in it. It drove a lot of people insane. Personally I think desire in moderation is a good thing it keeps me focused on things in this world and keeps me responsible for myself and stops me from becoming a bum.  Most religions or belief systems make you dependent on them in some way by taking away your personal power ie desire and telling you they will take care of that part of your life.  If you truly lack all desire go out and kill yourself and run into the light never reincarnate and never come back to tell me about it.
Why does everyone think god has a human form, plants were here first. :yawn:


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OfflineSource
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: hawk]
    #2467458 - 03/24/04 01:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I should never use the word 'God' again. Buddha found it more convienient to not use any conceptually loaded words like 'God', but I'm not talking strictly as a Buddhist or anything else and I use the word with as little connotation as possible.

My assertion is that the personality that was 'Guatama' before enlightenment is no longer in existence (or has been transcended) after enlightenment (or was recognized as never existing in the first place). So to say Buddha or other enlightened teachers profit and to imagine that it is his personality profiting is in my opinion wrong.

Please read my previous posts again. Eliminating you personal desires will not make you a 'bum'. You will realize what you really ARE. And you WILL act, you WILL participate, you WILL shake the world at it's foundations! Only there won't be a you acting, participating or shaking.

Yeah, religion and belief can make you dependant on them, but only if you fail to realize that the teachings are only pointing in the direction you must go.

I'm not a Crowley expert or anything, but from what little I do know it sounds like Crowley was more interested in inflating the personal ego to god-like proportions than realizing that the ego is a prison that must be transcended. Would you rather have a nice big roomy prison or be free? But again, I could be wrong about him.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: Source]
    #2467641 - 03/24/04 02:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Ahh man, I really appreciate this post. I have been meaning to make a post about acceptance and was even going to add a clause about how this doesn't interfere with action, based on a really positive experience I have had recently. But I've been neglecting lately and didn't get to it. hehe.

One can't deny reality. What happens happens, and sometimes we like to deny it and we suffer over something that is true and has already happened. Acceptance of reality and what has happened and what is happening is extremely beneficial and even logical.

Sometimes we will be "hit" with some experiences that we wouldn't in any way prefer to happen... but either way, they happened. What has happened has happened and no matter how much we build up all of this negative stress and refusal to accept it, there is no changing what has happened.

Acceptance! I don't understand why we tend to program ourselves agansit reality. We need to be open to the flow that is presented.

Struggling emotionally with what has already came to be wastes our energy and severs us from the moment we are in now. If we don't like the way the river is taking us, you don't panic and kick your arms and legs wildy.. that only brings more trouble. :wink:

"I accept this moment and everything it encompasses." 'Tis be a powerful mantra. :grin: It definitely brings about a sense of peace. When you accept something, you receive it with approval, and you also become one with it in a way. There is no seperation in a sense, between you and what you are accepting.

There is no seperation and therefore no negative emotions sucking away our peace.

One isn't going to be capable of operating in a state of higher awareness in a moment if one enters the moment not accepting the moment and what it encompasses. To struggle agansit the moment and what happens in it is like not agreeing with 1=1. :lol:

I like how you mentioned Buddha and Jesus, and how they continued to act after they totally accepted the world and what it encompasses. You know, the whole "before enlightenment, there is the chopping of wood and the carrying of water, after enlightenment, there is the chopping of wood and the carrying of water" thing. :wink:

I accept the moment, well, most of the time (making progress! hehe), but yet I continue to act. What "Is" is accepted, and I continue to act, based on what I prefer. I might not prefer it if someone is constantly screaming while in my presence, but it is happening and that is accepted. If I can do something reasonable to either stop the person from screaming or for me to remove myself from being within earshot, since I prefer to not hear the screaming, then I do so. But every little moment is accepted and if there was nothing in my power that could be done to make it so I could not hear the screaming, it would be accepted as inevitable.

Come on everyone, say in your mind right now "I accept this moment and what it encompasses!" Then say it again! Especially when something isn't going the way that we prefer it to, because those are the times that we find not so easy to accept. Say "I accept this moment and what it encompasses".

Realize that any emotional struggling agansit something that has happened, no matter how much you didn't want to do it, is futile in the end. Any suffering you experience is your own doing. Accept what happens as what happens and then take action based on your preferences (and not your emotion-backed addictions, hehe).

Acceptance and then action. :wink: I accept this moment and all it encompasses, mother fucker!  :nut:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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Loving every breath of you

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OfflineSource
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2467696 - 03/24/04 03:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Absolutely, fireworks god!

It's so insane the way we fight with reality! And I like what you added about this fight using up so much of our enery.

It's like we create an idea of what reality SHOULD be - and the degree of discrepancy between our ideal reality and reality itself is the degree of our suffering.

Accepting reality is comming home. It's entering the Kingdom of God, returning to Eden, entering Nirvana...

And it isn't the end of action, it's the end of selfish action. In the ten oxherding woodcuts, the final stage is returning to action in the world.

"I accept this moment and all it encompasses"
"I accept this moment and all it encompasses"
"I accept this moment and all it encompasses..."

I'm with you man.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Acceptance and Action [Re: Source]
    #2467730 - 03/24/04 03:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Source said:
It's like we create an idea of what reality SHOULD be - and the degree of discrepancy between our ideal reality and reality itself is the degree of our suffering.




Yep! I was trying to figure out how to say that, and then I forgot about it. :wink:

Acceptance rules! :grin:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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