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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 5,871
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: TempestDnB]
    #24612197 - 09/07/17 06:09 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TempestDnB said:
Aurora, LSD is not THC, they do not behave the same way pharmacokinetically, so I would have to say that your logic is not solid, and therefore "crap logic" as you call it.




I never said they were the same or even similar it was simply an example. I've even noticed this same thing with weak mushrooms vs potent mushrooms. Should I have used that as an example instead?



Quote:

So if I do some cocaine that is cut 50/50 and some pure cocaine, you're telling me that if I do some of the pure stuff and double the weight of that of the cut stuff, they won't affect me in the same way?




Probably not. It certainly doesn't work that way for MDMA and things like that so I doubt it would be that way for cocaine however the cocaine high isn't very complex so it's not a good example anyways but no I would wager that it wouldn't be.

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OfflineSpace Monkey
Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 908
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #24612347 - 09/07/17 07:23 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

howsyournaggerdoin said:
LSD is pretty well studied. If any of the impurities were active youd find mentions of it in the literature.




The impurities most certainly are not active, when taken on their own. However, this does not preclude them from having activity as entourage compounds.

CBD has no effect on its own. But, it influences the effects of THC. Extrapolate that paradigm to LSD and iso-LSD.

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OfflineTempestDnB
Lost but found.
I'm a teapot


Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 3,246
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24612370 - 09/07/17 07:32 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

But it doesn't work that way as far as I know. It sounds good on paper..


--------------------

“How happy is the blameless vestal’s lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each pray’r accepted, and each wish resign’d”

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OfflineNorthernerM
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Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,449
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: TempestDnB]
    #24612877 - 09/08/17 01:29 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

LSD isn't really all that well studied... they jammed the brakes on that in the 60's. It's only recently we are getting new scientific data.

Otherwise we would have some empirical information to work with, rather than this endless anecdotal thread that has been appearing since long before I joined the shroomery. :strokebeard:


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #24612878 - 09/08/17 01:30 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Space Monkey said:
Quote:

howsyournaggerdoin said:
LSD is pretty well studied. If any of the impurities were active youd find mentions of it in the literature.




The impurities most certainly are not active, when taken on their own. However, this does not preclude them from having activity as entourage compounds.





Even if that were the case they wouldve found out by now. Also i think this would be the first time that any drug ever works like that.

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
Quote:

TempestDnB said:
Aurora, LSD is not THC, they do not behave the same way pharmacokinetically, so I would have to say that your logic is not solid, and therefore "crap logic" as you call it.




I never said they were the same or even similar it was simply an example. I've even noticed this same thing with weak mushrooms vs potent mushrooms. Should I have used that as an example instead?





Probably a bad example aswell since mushrooms contain active compounds besides psilocybin and psilocin

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OfflineSpace Monkey
Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 908
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #24613101 - 09/08/17 06:32 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

howsyournaggerdoin said:
Quote:

Space Monkey said:
Quote:

howsyournaggerdoin said:
LSD is pretty well studied. If any of the impurities were active youd find mentions of it in the literature.




The impurities most certainly are not active, when taken on their own. However, this does not preclude them from having activity as entourage compounds.





Even if that were the case they wouldve found out by now. Also i think this would be the first time that any drug ever works like that.





CBD works like that. Go back a few decades, and we could be having the exact same conversation about cannabis. But, we now know that cannabis does indeed work like that.

Not only does it work like that, it has a term. "Entourage compound".

Edited by Space Monkey (09/08/17 06:32 AM)

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,376
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24613159 - 09/08/17 07:32 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Space Monkey said:
]

CBD works like that. Go back a few decades, and we could be having the exact same conversation about cannabis. But, we now know that cannabis does indeed work like that.

Not only does it work like that, it has a term. "Entourage compound".




CBD has pharmacological effects on its own.

Ligands working with synergistic, additive, or antagonistic effects are well-known. Though there are semantics involved in what constitutes "Activity," it is rare that a compound completely devoid of any pharmacological activity will magically enhance the effects of another.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

Edited by badchad (09/08/17 07:35 AM)

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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 5,871
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #24613560 - 09/08/17 11:42 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

howsyournaggerdoin said:
Probably a bad example aswell since mushrooms contain active compounds besides psilocybin and psilocin




True but I don't think that dismantles the logic because they still contain psilocin and psilocin is psilocin. And weak shrooms no matter how much I take never feel like even a small amount of the potent stuff. Even if I take a microdose of the potent stuff it feels nothing like the weak stuff. The weak stuff always takes way longer to kick in too, like an hour at least whereas the potent stuff I can feel within 30 minutes even if it's a threshold amount. And the quality of the experience is clearly different.

I just maintain the idea that when there's a higher concentration of the active molecule whether it'd be Psilocin, LSD, THC or whatever..the fact that it's all passing the blood brain barrier much sooner and sort of all at once in a much more concentrated amount actually results in a "different experience" despite the molecules being exactly the same. People can say whatever they want about chemistry and molecular structures because the real mystery is the difference in pharmacokinetics. I firmly believe that the pharmacokinetics of taking highly concentrated LSD vs diluted LSD behave differently.

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,376
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #24613742 - 09/08/17 01:05 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
I firmly believe that the pharmacokinetics of taking highly concentrated LSD vs diluted LSD behave differently.




Interesting, what PK parameters do you think would be different?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 5,871
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: badchad]
    #24614083 - 09/08/17 03:08 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

I have no idea :grin:

Would be interesting to see some studies done on it.

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OfflineSpace Monkey
Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 908
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: badchad]
    #24617048 - 09/09/17 09:05 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

Space Monkey said:
]

CBD works like that. Go back a few decades, and we could be having the exact same conversation about cannabis. But, we now know that cannabis does indeed work like that.

Not only does it work like that, it has a term. "Entourage compound".




CBD has pharmacological effects on its own.

Ligands working with synergistic, additive, or antagonistic effects are well-known. Though there are semantics involved in what constitutes "Activity," it is rare that a compound completely devoid of any pharmacological activity will magically enhance the effects of another.




Sure. What I mean is: it won't get you high. But, taking it in conjunction with THC, will alter your THC high. I think it is plausible something similar might be the case with things like iso-LSD. Iso-LSD as far as I can tell, isn't that well studied. I mean, yeah, I've seen a lot of people mention that Shulgin took a bunch of it... but that doesn't seem too extensive. Did he take it in conjunction with LSD? Not as far as I can know!

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OfflineEclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi
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Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 6,258
Loc: PNW
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24628430 - 09/14/17 09:40 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Like others have said, we really don't know for sure. We still need serious research.

So it's best to keep an open mind to both perspectives in my opinion.

Iso-LSD from my understanding definitely plays some type of role we need further research.

From variability of set and setting to dosage, it's quite hard to pinpoint if the LSD impurities are playing a role.

I've had certain LSD I'd sware by to produce a consistent effect every time, and others which gave me negative effects, my experience correlated with the others who have used it as well.

But I can't say for sure it's impurity, it could be many many things.

I'm a firm believer in Crystal purity playing a massive role in experience to reflect, as well as pure crystalline structures especially LSD having the ability to work as a Crystal Capacitor(able to absorb, integrate and reflect the energies and intentions of those in its presence and especially of its Creator)

Even if impurities are not psychologically active, this takes away from the actual purity and reflective quality of the crystal itself.

If we look at DMT extraction for example, besides the active counterparts which can be extracted (NN DMT, DMT N-oxide), we are left with psychologically inactive and impure plant byproducts, oils, fats, etc.

Say we have 99% pure white reflective crystal DMT

Sitting next to 90% pure yellow plant fat and oil DMT...

These impurities may not be psychologically active, but they are physically active - meaning your body can detect and interact with the experience of them(subjective)

In this case, we have dirty DMT with no known psychologically active impurities, yet the impurity may still be very easy to detect in the body.. (NOT THE MIND)

This impurity can attribute to negative effects within the experience that is not DMT.

I say it's the same with LSD, the impurities may not be psychologically active, but that does not mean they are not physically detectable, meaning you can feel them playing a part in the trip which is not LSD itself, especially in such a heightened and elevated state of awareness, it would be very easy to detect. More visually intense LSD is actually less pure of a crystal, the purest crystal will act as a transparency for your consciousness, highly visual crystal is still high purity, based on its ability to reflect light, but the purest is a transparent quality.

The world will never know..

We can look at something such as THC extraction concentrates with the use of no solvents (butane) judt heat(rosin press)

It will contain psychologically inactive impurities, misc plant material, but that very impurity seriously effects the experience within the body compared to not: The ability to reflect

This is my experience and view


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

Edited by Eclipse3130 (09/14/17 11:24 AM)

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