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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #24620705 - 09/11/17 01:05 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

This is something kind of random but it's on the subject of marriage. I was watching the movie the departed yesterday for like the 15th time maybe and it was the scene where Baldwin is talking to Damon about marriage.

"Gettin' married's an important part of gettin' ahead. Lets women know you're not a homo. They see the ring and think somebody must stand your ass, gotta have some money and your dick works."

Lol and it's so true. I've actually heard of single guys wearing rings in order to pick up women.

Whenever I'm with my girl, people treat me very differently. Women especially seem to be more open and social with me. It's like my rough edges are rounded off. Its always seemed that times when I was in a relationship, women were overall more drawn to me.

Something to do with psychology and societal norms/expectations

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24620726 - 09/11/17 01:13 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

"And with what happens these days there is no reason to force it to be a forever thing."

it's in the child's interest that it is forever, societies interest because they will have to deal with the disadvantaged children from single parent house holds.

and least importantly and leasy easy to prove, it's in the interest of the partners.

rough patches suck but running away from your problems isn't the answer. facing them will be better in the long term.

I can't say for sure if married people are happier because most of the studies are either from atheists who will find a way to condemn marriage no matter what and religious people who will defend marriage no matter what so it is too biased. every study seems to explain why other studies aren't accurate and theirs is and it just looks like they are all finding loopholes to make their position appear right.

but I see old couples who know everything about each other and get along with eachother until one dies or gets dementia and I can't imagine that it came natural or that they didn't work through rough patches. maintaining relationships is hard but the payoff is worth it.


anyway that's anecdotal evidence so disregard that point if you want. my main argument is that children from single parent house holds are disadvantaged.

what's wrong with having a plan for how something should be? so just because we may be disappointed with the result we shouldn't st goals or get a picture in our head of what our ideal life is like? I for one try to visualize my life being how I want it and do what I can to make sure that vision becomes a reality.

"a broken marriage is a broken marriage, weather or not you want to acknowledge it"

I didn't say just pretend everything is fine. I said the opposite. acknowledge that there is a problem and work through it together.

the life expectancy in the past was skewed because of all the children who died. people didn't acctually die of old age at 25. the dead children who skewed the stats never had kids of their own so they don't matter.

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #24620728 - 09/11/17 01:14 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

XLCaps said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Everybody is having babies outside of marriage.



and those babies end up being disadvantaged. it's tragic.



Disadvantaged how? Mommy and Daddy didn't buy rings and let a Jesus man help you sign a paper?



look at the link I provided.

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: XUL]
    #24620742 - 09/11/17 01:21 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:


divorce is now accepted and the divorce rate sky rocketed and people even go into marriages with divorce in mind. to me that is proof that if you have a way out you are very likely to use it.


http://prospect.org/article/consequences-single-motherhood





From 2000 - 2015, divorce rates have been lowering (as well as marriages), according to the CDC. What information to you have to suggest otherwise? Second, do you have a reference to a poll which measures subjective opinions of those entering into marriage and the possibility that they may get divorced? Create a survey and send it out, but I think the information would be lost in translation. A person knows divorce exists. Does that make them guilty of likely using it?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/national_marriage_divorce_rates_00-15.pdf








did I say that they increased from 2000 to 2015? No I didnt. you are putting words in my mouth.

I'm talking about changes that occurred when divorce became accepted. divorce has been accepted since before 2000. you're zooming into one small section of time and saying "aha, they decreased". you need to look at the bigger picture and i think you know that. you are being intellectually dishonest.

divorce.lovetoknow.com/Historical_Divorce_Rate_Statistics

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OfflineXUL
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #24620771 - 09/11/17 01:34 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, I am zooming in on a point in time. Do you know why? Because you said this.

Quote:

divorce is now accepted and the divorce rate sky rocketed




"Now," as in the present time.

And then you reference an article from 1994.

:cookiemonster:


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (09/11/17 01:35 PM)

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: XUL]
    #24620781 - 09/11/17 01:39 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
Yes, I am zooming in on a point in time. Do you know why? Because you said this.

Quote:

divorce is now accepted and the divorce rate sky rocketed




"Now," as in the present time.

And then you reference an article from 1994.

:cookiemonster:



now as in since divorce was accepted. as in NOW compared to how it was BEFORE divorce was accepted.

divorce was accepted before 2000. 2000 is NOT before divorce was accepted.

I said they have skyrocketed. not they are continuing to skyrocket.

Edited by BANANA.MAN (09/11/17 01:40 PM)

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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24620785 - 09/11/17 01:41 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Tell me then, if the father abuses the mother is it in the child's best interest for the parents to stay together? if the mother manipulates and cheats on the father is it in the child's best interest for them to be together?

There's nothing wrong with having an ideal, the problem is the inability to recognize it as an ideal and understanding what it takes to live up to that ideal as well as an understanding that it may not live up to the ideal no matter what you do.


I have nothing against marriage. It still has its place in our society. There is misunderstandings of what it is and what it should be that is the problem.

My mother and father were terribly depressed. They ran from their problems because they had no idea how to deal with them. In a way they never even considered divorce because they avoided their problems. It has festered into drug abuse and mental illness, and not just for them.


I feel there are wider societal problems and that feeds into marriage. You won't fix the latter without fixing the former and that can only be done by the parents and the institutions raising the upcoming generation. It's not being done because we have economic and government structural problems as well.


Marriage has it's place, children without marriage have their place, and divorce has its place. I wish things fit together a little more cleanly and clearly but we have bigger problems.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:

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OfflineXUL
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24620793 - 09/11/17 01:44 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't know you were changing the definition of, "now," to, "since divorce was accepted."

I think you meant to say: "Since the acceptance of divorce in 1994, blah blah blah."

Be precise or we can't understand you.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24620798 - 09/11/17 01:45 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

"Tell me then, if the father abuses the mother is it in the child's best interest for the parents to stay together? if the mother manipulates and cheats on the father is it in the child's best interest for them to be together?"
nope. now that that's out of the way, would you be willing to accept those as the only acceptable reasons for divorce? Or are you trying to take an exception and make it the rule?

liberals do the same thing with abortion. "what if the woman is raped?" well are you willing to allow that as the only exception or are you trying to use that to justify all abortion?

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InvisibleAdden
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: TheSheph]
    #24620803 - 09/11/17 01:48 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Atreyu said:
Personally I am failing to see any point in getting married.




Then don't haha. It's a pretty old and archaic system and social construct. If two people want to then yay. If not then whatever, really.

Quote:

Lophosaurus said:
There aren't really any tax incentives for being married.




It depends how much you make, how you file, writeoffs, and under what status (MFJ/MFS).

Most importantly, is that a spouse can make medical decisions on your behalf. If you have no family and can't speak for yourself, you should love your spouse enough to make a decision that might save (or take) your life.

I've only been married for 12 years now. So relatively young and new. We aren't going to have kids, at least in the foreseeable future, but love each other enough that we literally trust each other with our lives.

Also this is really it in a nutshell:

Quote:

TheSheph said:
I'm married, and what that means outside of the state legality is the understanding my wife and myself have between each other.




A marriage is what you make of it. You need to be willing and ready to put that person before you along every step of the way in life, and do all you can to help them achieve their dreams or life goals. If you do it for the money fine. If you do it for love, great!

..but do it for her :wink: or him :shocked:

but most importantly, for each other. :heart:

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: Adden]
    #24620811 - 09/11/17 01:50 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
I didn't know you were changing the definition of, "now," to, "since divorce was accepted."

I think you meant to say: "Since the acceptance of divorce in 1994, blah blah blah."

Be precise or we can't understand you.



I didn't know the definition of now was 2000-2015

now is a relative term.

Edited by BANANA.MAN (09/11/17 01:50 PM)

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InvisibleAdden
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24620820 - 09/11/17 01:52 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Jeez guys really splitting hairs here.

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OfflineXUL
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24620823 - 09/11/17 01:54 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)


Those are the most recent statistics, which is why I presented them.


Quote:


a :  at the present time or moment Now is the time for action.
b :  in the time immediately before the present thought of them just now
c :  in the time immediately to follow :  forthwith come in now

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/now





--------------------
TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (09/11/17 01:54 PM)

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: Adden] * 1
    #24620826 - 09/11/17 01:54 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Adden said:
Jeez guys really splitting hairs here.



I know. he's being intellectually dishonest i shouldn't be bothering with him.

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OfflineXUL
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24620829 - 09/11/17 01:55 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

Adden said:
Jeez guys really splitting hairs here.



I know. he's being intellectually dishonest i shouldn't be bothering with him.




Those are the most recent statistics, which is why I presented them.


Quote:


a :  at the present time or moment Now is the time for action.
b :  in the time immediately before the present thought of them just now
c :  in the time immediately to follow :  forthwith come in now

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/now





Your reply?


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24620834 - 09/11/17 01:56 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Those are the most recent statistics, which is why I presented them. 

but those don't apply here. I talking about the gradual acceptance of divorce throughout the 20th century. since laws have passed allowing divorce to be executed more easily, the divorce rate has increased. those laws or most of them were already passed before 2000.

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #24620840 - 09/11/17 01:58 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

quit asking me to defend claims that you made. I'm having real discussions with other members here.

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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24620846 - 09/11/17 01:59 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
"Tell me then, if the father abuses the mother is it in the child's best interest for the parents to stay together? if the mother manipulates and cheats on the father is it in the child's best interest for them to be together?"
nope. now that that's out of the way, would you be willing to accept those as the only acceptable reasons for divorce? Or are you trying to take an exception and make it the rule?

liberals do the same thing with abortion. "what if the woman is raped?" well are you willing to allow that as the only exception or are you trying to use that to justify all abortion?




The entire point of bringing such examples to the table is to allow the opposition to admit that there are understandable exceptions. I never claimed that's where I draw the line, my line is likely farther than yours, but when have 2 people ever shared the exact same opinion about every scenario in the book?


Alot of "liberals" are also likely to admit there are understandable circumstances where firearms are necessary. Being able to admit that alone makes the grounds of "guns are evil" become more unstable.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:

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OfflineXUL
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #24620873 - 09/11/17 02:11 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

That's fine, mate.

What I am telling you is that you weren't specific. I showed you your own word of, "Now," and the definition of it.

I don't mean to argue with you, but I like to be precise and it's fun to be.

So, you are talking about the 1900s and the increase in divorces?

I wonder what made them increase in the 20th century, but decrease now?

Although, I think there needs to be a proportion made for the decline in marriage and divorce.

Do you have any data from the 20th century to support the divorce rates you are indicating?


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: What's the point of getting married? [Re: XUL]
    #24620900 - 09/11/17 02:21 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
That's fine, mate.

What I am telling you is that you weren't specific. I showed you your own word of, "Now," and the definition of it.

I don't mean to argue with you, but I like to be precise and it's fun to be.

So, you are talking about the 1900s and the increase in divorces?

I wonder what made them increase in the 20th century, but decrease now?

Although, I think there needs to be a proportion made for the decline in marriage and divorce.

Do you have any data from the 20th century to support the divorce rates you are indicating?





there are two reasons why the 2000-2015 data is irrelevant.

just because it's decreasing now doesn't mean it didn't increase when divorce became more accepted the fact that its decreasing now could be because people are bouncing back.

second if you look at my data taken over several decades, it does fluctuate but ultimately increases. this could very well be a fluctuation and it will continue on an upward trajectory overall. only time will tell.

this is just a guess so I won't count it as a reason but I'll throw it out there. maybe people are realizing what a mistake it was to abandon tradition and young people are now trying to change things.


"Do you have any data from the 20th century to support the divorce rates you are indicating?"

were you acctually reading my posts before responding:hmm:

Edited by BANANA.MAN (09/11/17 05:37 PM)

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