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OfflineShining Cosmos
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Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay
    #24613857 - 09/08/17 01:41 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Hello,

I work at a grocery store in Arizona. When I first got hired I was misled into joining the union. They told me I could not get benefits unless I joined the union which is not true. So now the union gives me really no benefit and they charge me a little more than I would like to pay. Unfortunately, they don’t give much information except through letter, which is pretty archaic.

Anyways, when I attempted to leave the union they said I could only leave if I wrote a certified letter within my “window date” which is a certain time before and after my join date. So I ended up doing just that. They informed me that I had successfully withdrawn from the union BUT that doesn’t mean they stop docking my pay. I have to write a separate letter ‘requesting’ that they stop charging me.

That was about a year ago and my window date was over so there wasn’t much I could do about it at the time. Now my window date is rolling around again and I’d like to do as much as I can to get them to stop taking my money. Can anyone help or give me advice? Unfortunately, I am stupid and I can’t understand the language of the letter I received so I will post what was written to me.

“The dues check-off authorization which is separate and apart from the membership application states that a request for withdrawal must be made in writing no less then thirty (30) days and not more than forty-five (45) days prior to the end of any subsequent yearly period based on the date of execution of the authorization or termination date of the agreement between the Employer and Local 99.”

Any help is appreciated.

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Shining Cosmos]
    #24618705 - 09/10/17 04:12 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Seems like you just need to write them and ask them to stop taking your money. Maybe ask if there's a form you can fill out to stop it.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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OfflineBrennus
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Shining Cosmos] * 2
    #24636461 - 09/16/17 09:20 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shining Cosmos said:
Hello,

I work at a grocery store in Arizona. When I first got hired I was misled into joining the union. They told me I could not get benefits unless I joined the union which is not true. So now the union gives me really no benefit and they charge me a little more than I would like to pay. Unfortunately, they don’t give much information except through letter, which is pretty archaic.

Anyways, when I attempted to leave the union they said I could only leave if I wrote a certified letter within my “window date” which is a certain time before and after my join date. So I ended up doing just that. They informed me that I had successfully withdrawn from the union BUT that doesn’t mean they stop docking my pay. I have to write a separate letter ‘requesting’ that they stop charging me.

That was about a year ago and my window date was over so there wasn’t much I could do about it at the time. Now my window date is rolling around again and I’d like to do as much as I can to get them to stop taking my money. Can anyone help or give me advice? Unfortunately, I am stupid and I can’t understand the language of the letter I received so I will post what was written to me.

“The dues check-off authorization which is separate and apart from the membership application states that a request for withdrawal must be made in writing no less then thirty (30) days and not more than forty-five (45) days prior to the end of any subsequent yearly period based on the date of execution of the authorization or termination date of the agreement between the Employer and Local 99.”

Any help is appreciated.




If you don't want to pay union dues, don't work in a union shop. You have benefits in the working conditions negotiated, your medical/retirement benefits, etc. On average, union workers in the same industries as non-union workers have better pay, benefits, and retirement packages. Collective bargaining works.

If your union doesn't work, get involved with it (go to meetings) and make it work. Maybe you have a really shitty local union, maybe you don't. I don't know, but here's your local's website based on educated guesses: https://ufcw99.com/

I recommend you go to a meeting and voice your complaints before you withdraw.

Don't be a fucking scab.

Edited by Brennus (09/16/17 09:25 PM)

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OfflineShining Cosmos
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Brennus]
    #24641552 - 09/18/17 05:40 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I get all of the same benefits without being in the union. It's literally a scam. When you get hired a union rep shows up and says you don't get benefits unless you join which is a straight up lie. It's a bad union for people hired after 2012. How does that make me a "fucking scab"? it's about 500 dollars per year with NO added benefit except for discount monster truck show tickets.

I already did withdrawal and they still take 40 dollars per month.

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OfflineOrganicanna
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Shining Cosmos]
    #24651622 - 09/22/17 12:16 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

What your legally known as is a "Beck Objector" and the minimum amount of dues you still pay is a bare bone version that can only be used for contract negotiating and representation costs .... I've often seen those with such attitudes about Unionism. It's never a matter of finances as the true motivation for such angst is instead oftenly just a thinly veiled expression of political ideologies. Overwhelmingly, union represented work forces have much better benefits, salaries and working conditions so how could ones financial support towards receiving such better living standards be objectionable?

Anytime human beings organize, create a hierarchical structure, designate power, influence and involve egos, there will be corruption, abuse, selfishness and entitlement ...... Unions are not exempt from such darkness of human nature. They are far from perfect and often shortsighted. Like all organizations, they require constant improvement, adaptation and evolution. This requires the just and moral folks to get off their asses, pay attention and get involved ... In spite of the fact its much easier to play "victim", act pathetically hopeless and just throw stones to make themselves feel like an "outsider" or "rebel".

I think Brennus hit the nail perfectly and squarely upon the head. I'll even add a bit to that as I've had this conversation many times.

Instead of being another one of societies ever popular and pathetically politically correct "victims" ..... Stop whining, educate yourself without some implanted political ideologies undue influences so you can express yourself openly, intelligently and without bias, grow a set of balls, man up, get off your ass and actually do something about it!

Go to your meetings, take notes, develop a clear sense of what you think is faulty, wrong or misguided. Develop rational ideas on how to address these problems and visualize a clear path towards a better future ..... Then run for office and actually change things. Your Union is no different than any other and no doubt has its share of power hungry egomaniacs who talk solidarity yet act selfishly .... Vote those scumbags out of office as those types, although usually within the minority, have been a scurge upon Unionism almost since day one. They are truly the greatest threat towards the continuation of the Union movement.

I truly hope you can try and understand the facts being presented. I don't feel typing this out was a waste of time at all due to past experiences. On more than a few occasions I've personally witnessed young, intelligent men who had the same viewpoints as the OP .... Once offered a path towards actually making a difference through action verses whining and learned to channel their angst, frustration and feelings of helplessness in a positive direction of change .... Became engaged, got involved and were personally responsible for great strides forward within their organization eventually becoming catapults of positive change. I'm extremely proud to call these men Brother and their efforts will be felt by generations to come.

I felt a huge similarity between the OP and these folks. My motivations for posting this are not born from political ideologies, but from both recognizing these similarities as well as wishing to possibly act as a small yet never insignificant catalyst of positive change within the individual and therefore the whole organized labor movement.

You only matter to others when you demand it through both your words AND deeds ..... otherwise your just another insignificant tool thats easy to control and manipulate towards anothers benefit


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InvisibleByrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Organicanna] * 1
    #24653268 - 09/23/17 08:38 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

You guys are assholes, the op came here asking for advice, not a fucking lecture. Unfortunately the best advice I can give the op is to try to ask a nicer and more helpful forum.

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OfflineShining Cosmos
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Organicanna] * 1
    #24664796 - 09/27/17 04:23 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

With all due respect you have no idea what you're talking about. Read my previous posts in this thread. I get the EXACT same benefits from my employer WITHOUT being in the union. When I first got hired (and all new hires) a union rep came in and literally said that there no benefits without joining the union which is a LIE. Is that worth $500 per year? No. it isn't. Plain and simple

I'm not denying the importance of a worker's union. I think they are important and useful but only when the union isn't a scam...and in this case it is. which I already explained in the thread.

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Shining Cosmos]
    #24666222 - 09/28/17 06:59 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Arizona is a right to work state.  Is that what this is about?  You want to be a free rider?


--------------------
 

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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OfflineBrennus
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Shining Cosmos] * 1
    #24719323 - 10/18/17 12:02 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

With all due respect, YOU don't know what you're talking about. He had a very informative post and had a much nicer tone than I did.

Those benefits likely wouldn't exist without the union negotiating them.

If you work in a union shop and enjoy those benefits without paying dues, you are freeloading. We usually call you a scab, even though the term has been historically reserved for replacement workers.

Sure, the rep shouldn't have lied. There's lousy union reps just like there's lousy managers, doctors, librarians, teachers, etc.

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OfflineShining Cosmos
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Brennus]
    #24842762 - 12/12/17 07:57 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

so I'm supposed to be in the union just because? I'm supposed to have 500 dollars per year taken just because? I think unions are beneficial just not this one. EVERY employee is entitled to the same benefits without joining...so why join?

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OfflineShining Cosmos
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #24842765 - 12/12/17 07:58 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I just don't want to spend 500 dollars per year for benefits I can get without spending 500 dollars per year. I don't get how that makes me a scab. why would anyone do that?

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InvisibleApostleofAzathoth
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Shining Cosmos]
    #24843007 - 12/12/17 10:13 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Don't be a scab mate. Unions are important. Without the union there is no weekend, and without the weekend there is no party. You have to fight for your right to party man. Involve yourself in the union and help organize to raise your pay!

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InvisibleApostleofAzathoth
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Byrain]
    #24843020 - 12/12/17 10:25 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Byrain said:
You guys are assholes, the op came here asking for advice, not a fucking lecture. Unfortunately the best advice I can give the op is to try to ask a nicer and more helpful forum.



In some circumstances sure, but this is a non negotiable. Solidarity is forever. If someone came here asking for advice on how to cheat their coworkers out of the fruits of their labor directly through scams or theft, what would you say? So why is it different when they want to do this indirectly? If a union rep is lying to newcomers, you first make yourself known and valuable within the union, and then you confront them about it. You never sacrifice solidarity. It is the most valuable tool we have as workers.

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InvisibleByrain

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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: ApostleofAzathoth]
    #24843075 - 12/12/17 11:13 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

He came here asking for help on how to get out of an unwanted relationship. I'm not sure why you are twisting this, but it doesn't help anyone.

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InvisibleCranial Feature
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Shining Cosmos] * 1
    #24843412 - 12/13/17 07:58 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shining Cosmos said:
so I'm supposed to be in the union just because? I'm supposed to have 500 dollars per year taken just because? I think unions are beneficial just not this one. EVERY employee is entitled to the same benefits without joining...so why join?



Because if you don't join - that is, PAY for the representation you get, the union will be unable to function, your benefits will erode, your workplace rights will wither - and the union will be able to do NOTHING about it because if no-one's IN the union then there IS no union;  then the union can't represent the employees (except for free - and I'll bet YOU won't work FOR FREE)...and that's the death of unions - and THAT is the death of workers' rights in the workplace...and that's a key element in building the New Somaliland for you and your kids to slave away in for a few generations,.

Might as well just GIVE yourself to your boss (throw yourself on his mercy:  it works for wise guys)...I'm sure he won't abuse you.  Much.  Unless there's something in it FOR HIM.  I'm sure your situation will be much less shitty when you HAVE NO ONE looking out for you.  Go ahead, libertarian Einstein, shoot yourself and your co-workers in the face - it'll be FUN!  The boss will 'like' you...and you'll be the servant you've always been, just with less pay, 'rights' that only serve your employer, fewer benefits, and a sinking feeling in your gut that never goes away...all for $40 a month.

Your choices are stark:  either shut your hole & take your dispossession like a man...or grow a pair and stand on your own two feet WITH your fellow workers and try to make things better for yourself, your family, your community and your nation.  Then again, I know that $40 means more to you than self-respect or a future for your kids, so enjoy the heel out of the extra blow-job, okay?


--------------------
Unscrewing the inscrutable since 1958
“And you can believe me, because I never lie and I’m always right…” - George L. Tirebiter

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OfflineShining Cosmos
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Cranial Feature]
    #24905547 - 01/11/18 01:53 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

you are reeeeaaallllyyyy missing the point. All of the same benefits are given DIRECTLY from the employer REGARDLESS of whether or not the employee is in the union. The union reps LIE to new employees and tell them that they need to join or they won't get benefits and then they make it nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get out.

The union ALREADY doesn't function as it based on the lie that employees need to join to get the benefits. The union doesn't even need to function. Me not being in it does not affect it. You are missing the point that this union serves NO purpose. This union is a SCAM. I believe in the IDEA of a union but those same principles and values are not being represented. If you think I still I should "sacrifice" for it  then you are an idiot.

And my bosses won't abuse me because all of SAME EXACT rules exist OUTSIDE of the union contract. So how am I shooting myself in the foot? What about my co-workers? You haven't explained anything. You sound like some narrow minded baby boomer from the midwest. FYI I've gotten a raise and my benefits are EXACTLY the same.

Being in this particular union doesn't give you a 'voice'. I didn't get a say on the last contract. I didn't even get to vote. Being a member in this union is absolutely pointless. It's not a UNION, it's a RACKET and that's what I keep trying to say but all of the fucking plebs on this board keep insisting that I'M a scab for not paying $500 per year to be apart of a fake union? Seriously, you're a fucking retard.

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OfflineShining Cosmos
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: ApostleofAzathoth]
    #24905552 - 01/11/18 01:55 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

you are missing the point dude. this isn't a real union. it's a scam. they lie to you to get you to join despite no added benefits AND they make it nearly impossible to leave. You don't get to vote on new contracts. This isn't a union and that's I keep trying to explain. NO ONE is benefitting from being in this union. So, this whole narrative that "I'm scab because unions are unions" is fucking outdated and useless. Read the fucking thread.

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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Shining Cosmos]
    #24905620 - 01/11/18 02:22 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

The union negotiated those benefits you are receiving.  I highly doubt what you are saying is true. If that true this 'union' would be investigated and shut down. The government doesn't like unions. And yea union dues fund the union, how else could they operate?

And btw. The union cant just take union dues if youre not in the union. Your employer allots union dues to the union when they pay you. Go talk to management about it. But good luck with no shop steward.

Edited by MagicMush123 (01/11/18 02:37 PM)

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OfflineShining Cosmos
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: MagicMush123]
    #24985407 - 02/11/18 10:39 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I am no longer in the union. And they DID take dues long after I withdrew. They are no longer taking dues and it will Dave me $500 every year. Being a member brought no real benefits. I am all for unions but this is not an actual union. Everyone in the store knows it.

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InvisibleBuffy
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Re: Need help getting my union to stop taking my pay [Re: Shining Cosmos] * 4
    #25057672 - 03/12/18 04:37 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

The decline of unions in America has coincided with ever increasing economic inequality. Most people's wages have been stagnant for fourty years, but the richest in America have seen massive gains in their wealth. If there was more solidarity among workers and unions were stronger in America, we might currently have things like a strong minimum wage, universal health care, better funded public education, etc.

Edited by Buffy (03/12/18 04:38 AM)

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