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OfflineAsanteA
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"Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. * 2
    #24607777 - 09/06/17 07:07 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Elsewhere online I was taking part in a topic when I argued, towards a dyslexic person that non-native speakers and dyslexic people tend to have in common that they put extra care in choosing the exact words to express what they say and, because of this, if they picked the right words and the grammar flies, they generally express what they mean more exactly than the average native speaker, who tends to halfass the meaning of their words because the language is so common and unchallenging for them.

Generally speaking of course.

We were having a discussion on misunderstandings of written text.

I argued that with a misunderstanding of written text, the error often lies in either the writer halfassing the meaning of the words he writes relative to what he intends to say, or the reader halfassing his interpretation of what the written words correctly express.

In comes this lady who says "no no nobody is really to blame because we all view what we read through our own lens."


:no:

Just

:no:

Halfassing an effort is by no means equal in merit to putting up a solid effort to either meticulously write or read a text.

Not everybody is a winner.

I see this mentality a lot with especially Americans. Many Americans are of the opinion that their, on-the-fly three second opinion outweighs the assessment of an expert in the field. All opinions are equal, no?

NOT SO. :hissyfit:

Its a subculture that encourages that people cease to take an extra effort to arrive at something specific because "anything will do, anyway."

Thats DUMB culture. It undermines its own achievements.

Some things have more merit than others. If it wasn't so, the universe would be entirely amorphous. It would have no distinguishing features in any point of it.

Terence McKenna did a good talk about it.





I don't agree on everything he says but holy crap, celebrating UNachievement, celebrating UNinformedness is not what "Makes America Great Again" no matter whether you're a donkey, an elephant or a pool toy.

Not to rag on Americans, but its there I see it the most. Europeans go in for the kill if someone tries to pull that off in a discussion, generally.

There is such a thing as facilitating your own demise, and when you are granting your uninformed as much merit as your experts then you are doing just that.

Let's politely remind one another to put up an extra effort and that expertise PAYS in the real world.


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Offlinenuds
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Asante]
    #24607793 - 09/06/17 07:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You should go down to the local kids soccer games and loudly present this argument about how the encouragement award is a load of shit and you should "go in for the kill" and just tell the other kids they suck.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: nuds]
    #24607807 - 09/06/17 07:45 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

*football


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: nuds]
    #24607808 - 09/06/17 07:45 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Oh my, do I sense some residual misgivings?


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Offlinenuds
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Asante]
    #24607810 - 09/06/17 07:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ha, not at all.

If I manage to hang around long enough you will pick up on my sense of humour eventually. It's there. Barely. But it's there.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: nuds] * 1
    #24607814 - 09/06/17 07:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'll look for it :standingby:


:lol:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Ahab McBathsalts] * 1
    #24607819 - 09/06/17 07:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:
*football





There's a soccer born every minute  :butthurt:


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InvisibleCyrus19
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Asante] * 1
    #24607825 - 09/06/17 07:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

This a excellent point Asante. American culture even before we became a country is steeped in individualist thought. Many Americans are mistrustful of experts since they all believe they are special snowflakes.


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OfflineDeathby69
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Asante]
    #24608030 - 09/06/17 10:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

"Dumb" culture, or just internet / hyper-stimulated / attention shredding culture?

Also, +1 for working an anti-Trump message into an otherwise good post. Well done. :awesome:


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Deathby69]
    #24608037 - 09/06/17 10:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Language leaves a lot of room for interpretation, even when whole-assed. Especially colloquial conversation.

Thats why law documents dont make good childrens books

Did the cow really jump over the moon or did his body transpose itself through the plane above the moon? What was the cows true intent?


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OfflineDeathby69
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: ModestMouse]
    #24608074 - 09/06/17 10:31 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Visual cues and context are lacking online. Maybe if we were only 'allowed' one tab at a time?

Thankfully, we have smilies to explain everything. :cookiemonster:


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Asante]
    #24608076 - 09/06/17 10:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

In other news, "one size fits all" is a lie.


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BAN OP 2021


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InvisibleWestCoastOG
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Deathby69]
    #24608081 - 09/06/17 10:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

If you're not first, You're last! "Ricky Bobby"


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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Deathby69] * 5
    #24608084 - 09/06/17 10:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Not to rag on Americans, but its there I see it the most.


When was the last time you were in this country for an extended period of time?

My experience leads me to believe that Europeans have a lot of ridiculous perceptions about Americans.

I was totally unprepared for how much I was going to be stereotyped by Europeans, as a Texan, when I traveled to Spain/Portugal. Their idea of Texas is essentially Hollywood Clint Eastwood films set in 1900. I have never shot a gun, I've only been on horseback like, once maybe twice, I don't have a southern accent but I do speak Spanish, I don't drive a truck. The last mayor of my city was a lesbian woman, now it's a black man. We've been a liberal stronghold for decades and Texas is not far from becoming a blue state but I guess Hollywood is more powerful than facts.


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InvisibleCyrus19
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: morrowasted]
    #24608113 - 09/06/17 10:50 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Not to rag on Americans, but its there I see it the most.


When was the last time you were in this country for an extended period of time?

My experience leads me to believe that Europeans have a lot of ridiculous perceptions about Americans.

I was totally unprepared for how much I was going to be stereotyped by Europeans, as a Texan, when I traveled to Spain/Portugal. Their idea of Texas is essentially Hollywood Clint Eastwood films set in 1900. I have never shot a gun, I've only been on horseback like, once maybe twice, I don't have a southern accent but I do speak Spanish, I don't drive a truck. The last mayor of my city was a lesbian woman, now it's a black man. We've been a liberal stronghold for decades and Texas is not far from becoming a blue state but I guess Hollywood is more powerful than facts.



Obviously not all Americans are like that however there is a strong current of anti intellectualism in the US. This is interesting since the US has some of the best universities in the entire world.


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OfflineDeathby69
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Cyrus19] * 1
    #24608187 - 09/06/17 11:15 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cyrus19 said:
Obviously not all Americans are like that however there is a strong current of anti intellectualism in the US. This is interesting since the US has some of the best universities in the entire world.




Proof? Or more Euro-elitist stereotyping?

The US is geographically much larger and much more rural, so there's that I guess.  Also, we finance the defense of other countries so, unlike many W European nations, some of our tax money that could go to 2 year maternity vacations and better education go to used to go to NATO and they are finally paying what they promised

Also, we never felt the full effects of WW2 and needed massive funding to rebuild infrastructure with US money.

All in all, I think it's just arrogant sour grapes. Europe will be a 3rd world cesspit in my lifetime. Without a single shot being fired.


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Deathby69] * 2
    #24608191 - 09/06/17 11:17 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Say that to his face at the gathering.


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InvisibleJohn Nada
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Asante] * 4
    #24608213 - 09/06/17 11:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

That sounds more like the Dutch to me. All they do is walk around all fat in wooden clogs, drunk on beer and high on Chinese research chemicals, in blackface makeup, screaming about the evils of America, talking about economics and investments while living on welfare, and running head first into windmills.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: John Nada]
    #24608357 - 09/06/17 12:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

This reminds me of something I read the other day:

People say "be happy, there is always someone worse off then you"

But never the inverse, "be unhappy, there is always someone better of then you"

Seems like an obvious way of manipulating people. We should be happy others suffer more but overlook the people who live in excess at the expense of the rest of us?

:youseethisshit:

Wouldn't be surprised if the church started that saying... :shakefist:


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: "Everybody's a winner" Newsflash: no they are not. [Re: Asante] * 2
    #24608389 - 09/06/17 12:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Elsewhere online I was taking part in a topic when I argued, towards a dyslexic person that non-native speakers and dyslexic people tend to have in common that they put extra care in choosing the exact words to express what they say and, because of this, if they picked the right words and the grammar flies, they generally express what they mean more exactly than the average native speaker, who tends to halfass the meaning of their words because the language is so common and unchallenging for them.
...




:no:

"they generally express what they mean more exactly"

:no:

All languages have nuance to them that non-native speakers do not pick up on
am not going to pass judgement on people with dyslexia as it does not actually run parallel

"halfassing" the meaning of words is slang or colloquial language -- people who use extensive slang may be obnoxious in terms of communication
but, if anything, it reflects a deeper comprehension of the language than an 'accurate' non-native speaker

non-native speakers typically get too caught up on the 'rules' of a given language
the efforts at 'clarity' can run into counter-productive territory
because native speakers of languages constantly bend and ignore 'rules' of their own language

it is more easy for two non-native speakers of English to communicate with each other
than it is for them to effectively and efficiently communicate with a native speaker
not due to being 'bad' at English,
but more due to not comprehending the social 'emphasis' placed on colloquial speech

another example could be
Québec is a French province in Canada,
but French speakers from France often find it difficult to communicate with Québécois individuals
because the colloquial Québécois and Joual frequently departs from the more formalized French that France operates with
and slang terminology between the two regions is not mutually intelligible

French speakers from France may consider their own language more 'accurate'
while Québécois individuals ridicule them for sounding overly pompous
but both the European country and the French Canadian province still use the 'same' language
but academic representations of language typically ignore regional dialects and variations
unless studying linguistics directly; at which point the emphasis of academic accuracy in language
is exchanged for the study of how language flows in an applied sense

do not get me wrong,
can personally comprehend a foreigner who has studied academic English
more clearly than my comprehension of individuals who use heavy Ebonics
but individuals who communicate extensively in Ebonics
express what they mean to each other in a very exactly understood manner
that a non-native English speaker would likely stand no chance at deciphering


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